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Re: SV: SV: [Distillers] Continuous Column - works well !

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  • motie_d <motie_d@yahoo.com>
    ... a ... it ... this) ... a ... lot ... and ... was .23 ... gasoline was ... you ... or ... produced ... you ... it, ... natural ... made ... people ... your
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 3, 2003
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ludwig <Bluestar792@n...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Johan Hemberg wrote:
      >
      > > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?
      >
      > For the Federal Government the license is free. The tax payable on
      a
      > gallon of alcohol was very little. I do not remember how much but
      it
      > wasn't a problem. You could produce up to (I'm not to sure about
      this)
      > around 10,000 gallon per year. Over that amount and you had to get
      a
      > license for a bigger facility and that cost some money as well as a
      lot
      > more paper to fill out.
      >
      > On the state level it was a completely different matter. The one
      and
      > only state I ever called, wanted a $5,000 dollar bond. The tax
      was .23
      > cents per gallon. What really chapped me was the fact that
      gasoline was
      > taxed at .21 cents per gallon. The tax had to be paid monthly and
      you
      > had to have it paid by the 10th of each month or your license was
      > revolked. You were required to keep track of all grain grown, used
      or
      > purchased for the production of alcohol, how many gallons were
      produced
      > and on what day, and how much DDG&S you produced, how much DDG&S
      you
      > sold or how much you fed your livestock. What kind and how much
      > denaturant you purchased, where you got it, how much you paid for
      it,
      > how much you used on each day and your total on hand of grain,
      natural
      > alcohol, denaturant, denatured alcohol and DDG&S. Any changes you
      made
      > to your still had to be reported and details given. You were also
      > required to give a security plan. How you were going to keep
      people
      > from stealing your alcohol and your plan had to be approved before
      your
      > license would be granted.
      >
      > To be honest, I lost the fuel alcohol scent somewhere along the
      way. I
      > still think about it on slower days when my mind wanders. I
      quickly
      > focus on more pressing matter like food, water, shade. Maybe
      someday,
      > but not anytime some! The secretary would cost me more than I
      would
      > ever hope to save by producing my own fuel
      >
      > Ludwig



      They scared me away too. And you gave the short condensed version of
      the requirements!

      Motie
    • Johan Hemberg
      Most famous exported Liquor from Sweden is Absolut Vodka: Check their ugly homepage: www.absolut.com There are most likely more brands exported as well, I
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 3, 2003
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        Most famous exported Liquor from Sweden is Absolut Vodka:
        Check their ugly homepage: www.absolut.com

        There are most likely more brands exported as well, I don't know what
        brands but if you are interested you could check
        http://www.systembolaget.se/english/xindex.htm Systembolaget stores are
        the only place in Sweden you can buy liquor (at the moment, things may
        change).

        When Sweden joined the European Union they made a small mistake. It
        became legal to own a distiller for water distillation. It took at least
        a year before people realized this mistake and then you could buy
        distillation apparatus in almost every home brewing store. After a year
        or two, the government corrected the law and it was illegal again to own
        a distiller or parts to one and they requested that people would
        voluntarily give their stills to the police.
        I think they got one still in entire Sweden =)
        So maybe they haven't thought about if it is legal to own a still for
        production of fuel. You never know, I'll try to find out. (I wouldn't
        mind to denature the mash, a solar powered continuous still with
        computer control would be worth it)

        Johan


        Living here in the USA I have noticed their is no commerical whiskey
        from Sweden in any of our liquor stores that I have seen. Could you
        pass along the names of some of Swedens better name brands. I do not
        recall ever seeing even one.

        Ludwig






        Johan Hemberg wrote:

        >
        > Hi
        >
        > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
        > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you
        > have a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a
        > continous still it would probably become a problem. I don't know
        > anyone that makes fuel alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll
        > check if it's possible. How much do you have to pay to make fuel
        > alcohol in USA?
        >
        > Johan
        >
        >
        > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
        > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and
        > > pay any tax due it is completely legal
        >
        >
        > Ludwig
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the
        > > column and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this
        > > hobby be legal (please God make it so =)
        > >
        > > Johan
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
        > well.
        > >
        > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
        > try
        > >
        > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
        > >
        > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
        > up
        > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
        > condensor
        > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
        > out
        > > a
        > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming

        > > feed, and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The
        > > fully stripped
        > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the
        boiler,
        > > and
        > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam
        getting
        > > out,
        > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
        > can
        > > be
        > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high
        > > point) so that the contents dont simply syphon out.
        > >
        > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
        > > (1500W)
        > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling
        at
        > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
        > > boiler
        > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is
        > > too much alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little.

        > > It was
        > good
        > >
        > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
        > beneath
        > > the
        > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always

        > > a steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured
        > > that the boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is
        > > kept above 99.8
        > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
        > that
        > >
        > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and
        > > measured it - couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
        > >
        > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column,
        > > which dips down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed
        > > at a steady dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a
        > > vapour lock to
        > p
        > >
        > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
        > the
        > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
        > it
        > > is
        > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
        > > running. Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed
        > > into the
        > center
        > > of
        > > the column.
        > >
        > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as
        > > packing. Fully insulated on the outside.
        > >
        > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off
        > > at total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
        > dropped
        > > to
        > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
        > never
        > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
        > (82%
        > > ?)
        > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts
        > > rising, then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some

        > > simple maths - if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%,
        > > then you expect
        > the
        > >
        > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and
        > > run it at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to
        > > make very high
        > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
        > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
        > > heading
        > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
        > >
        > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
        > whole
        > >
        > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
        > because
        > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
        > > always only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in

        > > the run, when
        > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
        > > head.
        > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
        > > the
        > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4
        to
        > > 1.0 m
        > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
        > >
        > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
        > It
        > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the
        > > same setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took
        > > around 5-6 hours to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what
        > > I'd expect for a
        > 1500W
        > >
        > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
        > > different settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there
        > > was a taller stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity

        > > (and faster) with a
        > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
        > >
        > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over
        > > my standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do

        > > it. Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more
        > > than
        > 25L
        > >
        > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
        > > benefit, or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with
        > > less than 5L capacity werent stills ....
        > >
        > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler,
        > > and one in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed

        > > rate, and the
        > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
        > >
        > > Tony
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
        > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
        > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
        >
        >
        > --
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        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
        > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
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        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
        > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


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      • Ludwig
        We looked in a liquor store today and sure enough their it was. Rated as one of their better vodka s. Priced accordingly Ludwig ... -- Your favorite stores,
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 5, 2003
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          We looked in a liquor store today and sure enough their it was. Rated
          as one of their better vodka's. Priced accordingly

          Ludwig

          Johan Hemberg wrote:

          >
          > Most famous exported Liquor from Sweden is Absolut Vodka:
          > Check their ugly homepage: www.absolut.com
          >
          > There are most likely more brands exported as well, I don't know what
          > brands but if you are interested you could check
          > http://www.systembolaget.se/english/xindex.htm Systembolaget stores are
          > the only place in Sweden you can buy liquor (at the moment, things may
          > change).
          >
          > When Sweden joined the European Union they made a small mistake. It
          > became legal to own a distiller for water distillation. It took at least
          > a year before people realized this mistake and then you could buy
          > distillation apparatus in almost every home brewing store. After a year
          > or two, the government corrected the law and it was illegal again to own
          > a distiller or parts to one and they requested that people would
          > voluntarily give their stills to the police.
          > I think they got one still in entire Sweden =)
          > So maybe they haven't thought about if it is legal to own a still for
          > production of fuel. You never know, I'll try to find out. (I wouldn't
          > mind to denature the mash, a solar powered continuous still with
          > computer control would be worth it)
          >
          > Johan
          >
          >
          > Living here in the USA I have noticed their is no commerical whiskey
          > from Sweden in any of our liquor stores that I have seen. Could you
          > pass along the names of some of Swedens better name brands. I do not
          > recall ever seeing even one.
          >
          > Ludwig
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Johan Hemberg wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Hi
          > >
          > > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
          > > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you
          > > have a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a
          > > continous still it would probably become a problem. I don't know
          > > anyone that makes fuel alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll
          > > check if it's possible. How much do you have to pay to make fuel
          > > alcohol in USA?
          > >
          > > Johan
          > >
          > >
          > > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
          > > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and
          > > > pay any tax due it is completely legal
          > >
          > >
          > > Ludwig
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the
          > > > column and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this
          > > > hobby be legal (please God make it so =)
          > > >
          > > > Johan
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
          > > well.
          > > >
          > > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
          > > try
          > > >
          > > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
          > > >
          > > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
          > > up
          > > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
          > > condensor
          > > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
          > > out
          > > > a
          > > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
          >
          > > > feed, and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The
          > > > fully stripped
          > > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the
          > boiler,
          > > > and
          > > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam
          > getting
          > > > out,
          > > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
          > > can
          > > > be
          > > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high
          > > > point) so that the contents dont simply syphon out.
          > > >
          > > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
          > > > (1500W)
          > > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling
          > at
          > > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
          > > > boiler
          > > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is
          > > > too much alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little.
          >
          > > > It was
          > > good
          > > >
          > > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
          > > beneath
          > > > the
          > > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always
          >
          > > > a steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured
          > > > that the boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is
          > > > kept above 99.8
          > > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
          > > that
          > > >
          > > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and
          > > > measured it - couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
          > > >
          > > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column,
          > > > which dips down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed
          > > > at a steady dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a
          > > > vapour lock to
          > > p
          > > >
          > > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
          > > the
          > > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
          > > it
          > > > is
          > > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
          > > > running. Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed
          > > > into the
          > > center
          > > > of
          > > > the column.
          > > >
          > > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as
          > > > packing. Fully insulated on the outside.
          > > >
          > > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off
          > > > at total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
          > > dropped
          > > > to
          > > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
          > > never
          > > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
          > > (82%
          > > > ?)
          > > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts
          > > > rising, then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some
          >
          > > > simple maths - if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%,
          > > > then you expect
          > > the
          > > >
          > > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and
          > > > run it at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to
          > > > make very high
          > > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
          > > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
          > > > heading
          > > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
          > > >
          > > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
          > > whole
          > > >
          > > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
          > > because
          > > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
          > > > always only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in
          >
          > > > the run, when
          > > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
          > > > head.
          > > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
          > > > the
          > > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4
          > to
          > > > 1.0 m
          > > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
          > > >
          > > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
          > > It
          > > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the
          > > > same setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took
          > > > around 5-6 hours to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what
          > > > I'd expect for a
          > > 1500W
          > > >
          > > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
          > > > different settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there
          > > > was a taller stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity
          >
          > > > (and faster) with a
          > > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
          > > >
          > > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over
          > > > my standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do
          >
          > > > it. Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more
          > > > than
          > > 25L
          > > >
          > > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
          > > > benefit, or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with
          > > > less than 5L capacity werent stills ....
          > > >
          > > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler,
          > > > and one in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed
          >
          > > > rate, and the
          > > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
          > > >
          > > > Tony
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
          > > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
          > > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
          > > Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
          > > http://shopnow.netscape.com/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
          > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
          > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
          > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
          >
          >
          > --
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          > Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
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          >
          >
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        • waljaco <waljaco@hotmail.com>
          You could fortify it by freeze-distillation , a 10% wash giving you a 20% product which is the usual alcohol content of fortified wines. See msg 3197 by
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 7, 2003
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            You could fortify it by 'freeze-distillation', a 10% wash giving you
            a 20% product which is the usual alcohol content of fortified wines.
            See msg 3197 by 'ups474' (Jack) for details.
            Wal

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gil Hardwick <gruagach@h...> wrote:
            > At 04:25 AM 30/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
            >
            > >With all due respect, isn't it sort of remindign me of a fortified
            beer?
            >
            > No, not this batch which is made from molasses and dark
            > brown sugar not malt.
            >
            > My question concerned what reason would there be to make
            > up a wort so full of complex flavours and aromas only to distill
            > it all out then add bought essences.
            >
            > Gil
          • Aaron Pelly
            ... Jack seems to have been absent for some time now. I hope it s not permanent.
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 8, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              > See msg 3197 by 'ups474' (Jack) for details.
              > Wal

              Jack seems to have been absent for some time now. I hope it's not permanent.
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