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Continuous Column - works well !

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  • Tony & Elle Ackland
    Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very well. The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I ll try and get the
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 27, 2002
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      Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very well.
      The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll try
      and get the photos developed in the next week or so.

      Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm up
      from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the condensor
      (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts out a
      good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming feed,
      and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully stripped
      feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the boiler, and
      out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam getting out,
      its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element can be
      left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high point) so
      that the contents dont simply syphon out.

      The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler (1500W)
      running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling at
      100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower boiler
      - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is too much
      alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It was good
      around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting beneath the
      still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always a
      steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured that the
      boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept above 99.8
      (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down that
      low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and measured it -
      couldnt discerne any alcohol present.

      The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column, which dips
      down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a steady
      dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour lock to p
      revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb the
      fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast it is
      feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is running.
      Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the center of
      the column.

      Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as packing.
      Fully insulated on the outside.

      Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off at
      total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has dropped to
      78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was never
      going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C (82% ?)
      Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts rising,
      then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some simple maths -
      if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you expect the
      collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and run it
      at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make very high
      purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
      alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and heading
      out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min

      Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the whole
      run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats because
      nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is always
      only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the run, when
      the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of head.
      That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if the
      fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4 to 1.0 m
      is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.

      Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes. It
      doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the same
      setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-6 hours
      to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a 1500W
      setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying different
      settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a taller
      stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and faster) with a
      taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).

      I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over my
      standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do it.
      Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more than 25L
      through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of benefit,
      or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than 5L
      capacity werent stills ....

      The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler, and one
      in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate, and the
      head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.

      Tony
    • homedistiller <homedistiller@yahoo.com>
      Congratulations Tony, and thank you for the extensive feedback in your messages and on your website. I admire your pioneering spirit and your dedication to
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 28, 2002
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        Congratulations Tony, and thank you for the extensive feedback in
        your messages and on your website. I admire your pioneering spirit and
        your dedication to share.

        The interesting tables on the page:
        http://persephone.agcom.purdue.edu/AgCom/Pubs/AE/AE-117.html
        are becoming more alive to me now.

        These tables also predict, as you say, very attractive results when
        using more stages in the stripping and rectifying sections.

        Dirk
      • Johan Hemberg
        WOW! I only have a continous still in my dreams, great news that someone finally tested. I been wondering if the water trap in the feed would work or not (if
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 28, 2002
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          WOW! I only have a continous still in my dreams, great news that someone
          finally tested. I been wondering if the water trap in the feed would
          work or not (if too much mash enter the still the pressure will drop
          instant and suck in more mash). I'm afraid I've promised myself not to
          build a continous still but I have some ideas myself.

          About the feed, Why not use a pump and connect it to a long thin hose
          about a 1-3 meter or so, the pressure will drop in the hose and reduce
          the speed, fine adjustments is done with changing the wattage of the
          pump. I think this will make it possible to use cloudy mash. It is
          probably necessary to have magnetic valve at the bottom of the boiler
          istead of a water trap to remove the yeast.

          Remove the heads, use a heigher column, condense all at the top, remove
          very little at the top and put a tube with a valve into the column half
          a meter down and remove more reflux there (ethanol). The top vill have
          almost full reflux, and below the second tube, "normal" reflux.

          What about using a thermometer half the way down the stripper column,
          this theromometer will tell you quickly if you remove to litte alcohol
          from the top. You just need to know what the accurate temperature on
          that level is. Or did the temperature in the boiler change quickly?

          About the bottom outlet in your still, did it flush out from time to
          time or was it an even flow?

          It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the column
          and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this hobby be
          legal (please God make it so =)

          Johan



          Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very well.

          The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll try

          and get the photos developed in the next week or so.

          Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm up
          from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the condensor
          (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts out
          a
          good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
          feed,
          and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully
          stripped
          feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the boiler,
          and
          out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam getting
          out,
          its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element can
          be
          left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high point)
          so
          that the contents dont simply syphon out.

          The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
          (1500W)
          running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling at
          100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
          boiler
          - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is too
          much
          alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It was good

          around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting beneath
          the
          still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always a
          steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured that
          the
          boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept above
          99.8
          (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down that

          low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and measured
          it -
          couldnt discerne any alcohol present.

          The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column, which
          dips
          down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a steady
          dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour lock to p

          revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb the
          fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast it
          is
          feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
          running.
          Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the center
          of
          the column.

          Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as packing.
          Fully insulated on the outside.

          Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off at
          total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has dropped
          to
          78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was never
          going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C (82%
          ?)
          Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts rising,
          then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some simple
          maths -
          if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you expect the

          collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and run
          it
          at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make very
          high
          purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
          alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
          heading
          out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min

          Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the whole

          run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats because
          nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
          always
          only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the run,
          when
          the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
          head.
          That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
          the
          fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4 to
          1.0 m
          is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.

          Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes. It
          doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the same
          setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-6
          hours
          to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a 1500W

          setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
          different
          settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a taller
          stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and faster)
          with a
          taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).

          I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over my
          standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do it.
          Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more than 25L

          through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
          benefit,
          or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than 5L
          capacity werent stills ....

          The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler, and
          one
          in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate, and
          the
          head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.

          Tony

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        • mwmccaw <mikemccaw@earthlink.net>
          Congratulations, Tony! You have built a great stripper, but I would still polish the material this produces in a small rectifying still. Mike Nixon and I
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 28, 2002
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            Congratulations, Tony!

            You have built a great stripper, but I would still polish the
            material this produces in a small rectifying still.

            Mike Nixon and I discussed several types of continuous devices when
            we were writing TCD, and the problem with them all is that you have
            no method for rejecting heads, since they are being constantly
            introduced throughout the run.

            I'd also venture to say that if the boiler below was constantly at
            99-100ÂșC, then you were also getting the higher alcohols in the
            product. It just might be possible to calculate a boiler
            temperature that would keep most of the propanols and butanols in
            the boiler, but that would be a complicated situation.

            Your point is very well taken about size limits on devices, and if
            you concentrate at 8:1 in this device, then you could easily operate
            a 5-liter rectifying boiler with the results of a 25 liter wash.

            Happy New Year!
            Mike McCaw





            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Tony & Elle Ackland
            <Tony.Ackland@c...> wrote:
            > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
            well.
            > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm -
            I'll try
            > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
            >
            > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is
            32cm up
            > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
            condensor
            > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler
            puts out a
            > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the
            incoming feed,
            > and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully
            stripped
            > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the
            boiler, and
            > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam
            getting out,
            > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the
            element can be
            > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high
            point) so
            > that the contents dont simply syphon out.
            >
            > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
            (1500W)
            > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its
            boiling at
            > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this
            lower boiler
            > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is
            too much
            > alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It
            was good
            > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
            beneath the
            > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is
            always a
            > steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured
            that the
            > boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept
            above 99.8
            > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting
            down that
            > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and
            measured it -
            > couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
            >
            > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column,
            which dips
            > down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a
            steady
            > dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour
            lock to p
            > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly
            plumb the
            > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how
            fast it is
            > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
            running.
            > Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the
            center of
            > the column.
            >
            > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as
            packing.
            > Fully insulated on the outside.
            >
            > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start
            off at
            > total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
            dropped to
            > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
            never
            > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at
            80C (82% ?)
            > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts
            rising,
            > then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some
            simple maths -
            > if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you
            expect the
            > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and
            run it
            > at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make
            very high
            > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column
            with
            > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
            heading
            > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
            >
            > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
            whole
            > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
            because
            > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler
            is always
            > only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the
            run, when
            > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out
            of head.
            > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg
            if the
            > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4
            to 1.0 m
            > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
            >
            > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10
            minutes. It
            > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the
            same
            > setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-
            6 hours
            > to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a
            1500W
            > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
            different
            > settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a
            taller
            > stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and
            faster) with a
            > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
            >
            > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage
            over my
            > standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do
            it.
            > Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more
            than 25L
            > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
            benefit,
            > or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than
            5L
            > capacity werent stills ....
            >
            > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler,
            and one
            > in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate,
            and the
            > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
            >
            > Tony
          • Gil Hardwick
            In thinking through all this stuff, I grant the simple chemistry of producing ethyl alcohol but still consider it a waste to distill out the whole of the wort
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 28, 2002
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              In thinking through all this stuff, I grant the simple chemistry of
              producing ethyl alcohol but still consider it a waste to distill out
              the whole of the wort then discard the dregs before redistilling
              and refining the alcohol to be used as a base for whatever.

              At the moment I am seriously planning on taking only about 1/2
              to 2/3 of the wort and distilling that, then fortifying the remaining
              wort with the refined ethyl alcohol before topping it up and aging
              it in the oak.

              Alternatively, a separate sugar wash can be made to produce
              the extra alcohol for fortifying the original recipe and so retain
              all that body, and its complex flavours and aromas.

              Is anyone else using this or a similar method?

              Gil
            • Tony & Elle Ackland
              Mike, ... I did redistill all the product - because the first lot through the still come out very badly discoloured (some dodgy rubber in there ?). What
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 28, 2002
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                Mike,

                > Mike Nixon and I discussed several types of continuous devices when
                > we were writing TCD, and the problem with them all is that you have
                > no method for rejecting heads, since they are being constantly
                > introduced throughout the run.

                I did redistill all the product - because the first lot through the still
                come out very badly discoloured (some dodgy rubber in there ?). What
                surprised me was that there were no/little heads to remove - the first 50
                mL out when redistilled was as as sweet & clean as the rest of it. No
                nail-polish smell etc. Likewise, it wasnt really worth collecting the
                tails at the end of that run - less than 100 mL ? between 80-98C I'd put
                this down to it having been a nice clean sugar-only fermentation.

                > I'd also venture to say that if the boiler below was constantly at
                > 99-100oC, then you were also getting the higher alcohols in the
                > product. It just might be possible to calculate a boiler
                > temperature that would keep most of the propanols and butanols in
                > the boiler, but that would be a complicated situation.

                The distillate was very clean as it came out - very little smell to it - no
                more/less than what you'd typically get for a 84% product. I believe it
                would clean up well with carbon. The other option is to simply use this as
                a stripping device, to knock down a lot of wash into a smaller sized batch
                for final batch distilling.

                The boiler temperature also increased during the run - ending up at around
                101.6 C.
                I put this down to a slight increase in presure, posibily due to yeast
                cells etc starting to gunge up the stripping section. It would pay to have
                a wee paper filter or the like in the line from the ferementor. My wash
                was crystal clear - it had been sitting around for about a month, but its
                still likely that some cells carried over.

                Good point though - "as hot as possible" in the boiler may not be optimum.
                I guess it comes down to an economic decision - what % of your alcohol do
                you want to lose via the drain ? Maybe running it at around 98-99C would
                do - you'd be losing the overflow with about 0.5% alcohol in it, which is
                really only a few cents worth of sugar.

                > Your point is very well taken about size limits on devices, and if
                > you concentrate at 8:1 in this device, then you could easily operate
                > a 5-liter rectifying boiler with the results of a 25 liter wash.

                The boiler should really be as small as possible, in my opinion. All its
                doing is making steam for you, so any surplus volume there is simply
                wasted. 1L seemed ideal, and was quick to heat up & get going.

                Tony
              • Tony & Elle Ackland
                ... Yeah the water trap worked well - you could see the liquid level in the tubing, and it was a nice indication also of how well the column was running - it
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 28, 2002
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                  > WOW! I only have a continous still in my dreams, great news that someone
                  > finally tested. I been wondering if the water trap in the feed would
                  > work or not (if too much mash enter the still the pressure will drop
                  > instant and suck in more mash). I'm afraid I've promised myself not to
                  > build a continous still but I have some ideas myself.

                  Yeah the water trap worked well - you could see the liquid level in the
                  tubing, and it was a nice indication also of how well the column was
                  running - it was pulsating slightly. If the column pressure was to build
                  up, or start to flood, you'd see it as a change in the liquid level height
                  in that wee water trap there.

                  > About the feed, Why not use a pump and connect it to a long thin hose
                  > about a 1-3 meter or so, the pressure will drop in the hose and reduce
                  > the speed, fine adjustments is done with changing the wattage of the
                  > pump. I think this will make it possible to use cloudy mash. It is
                  > probably necessary to have magnetic valve at the bottom of the boiler
                  > istead of a water trap to remove the yeast.

                  The water trap was to keep steam from blowing out from the column, not to
                  trap the yeast. I think that a paper filter in the line would be best to
                  remove the yeast. Yes a small pump would be ideal.. I was just doing it as
                  cheap as possible.

                  > Remove the heads, use a heigher column, condense all at the top, remove
                  > very little at the top and put a tube with a valve into the column half
                  > a meter down and remove more reflux there (ethanol). The top vill have
                  > almost full reflux, and below the second tube, "normal" reflux.

                  Just too fancy for me - the collection rate of heads, if present would be
                  far too small. You'd be collecting 50 mL over the course of 5 hours.
                  Starting with a sugar wash, there should be little to no heads to begin
                  with. The other option is to use the continuous column to knock a large
                  amount of wash down into a small amount of high purity spirit, which could
                  be redistilled to remove any residual heads or tails present.

                  > What about using a thermometer half the way down the stripper column,
                  > this theromometer will tell you quickly if you remove to litte alcohol
                  > from the top. You just need to know what the accurate temperature on
                  > that level is. Or did the temperature in the boiler change quickly?

                  The boiler responded fast enough - temperature changes only took a minute
                  or so to show up. But that was the beauty of it all - once set up and
                  running, it didnt need much tweaking - far less than my normal still.

                  > About the bottom outlet in your still, did it flush out from time to
                  > time or was it an even flow?

                  Mostly it was even, though it would surge now and then. But by having the
                  overflow sitting higher than the element, it couldnt drain dry.

                  > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the column
                  > and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this hobby be
                  > legal (please God make it so =)

                  Time to immigrate to NZ ...

                  Tony
                • Gil Hardwick
                  ... Depending on the fermentation temperature and the yeast being used, the wort can be fermented all the way out without producing much in the way of
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 28, 2002
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                    At 03:55 PM 29/12/02 +1300, Tony wrote:
                    >Mike,
                    >
                    > > Mike Nixon and I discussed several types of continuous devices when
                    > > we were writing TCD, and the problem with them all is that you have
                    > > no method for rejecting heads, since they are being constantly
                    > > introduced throughout the run.
                    >
                    >I did redistill all the product - because the first lot through the still
                    >come out very badly discoloured (some dodgy rubber in there ?). What
                    >surprised me was that there were no/little heads to remove - the first 50
                    >mL out when redistilled was as as sweet & clean as the rest of it. No
                    >nail-polish smell etc. Likewise, it wasnt really worth collecting the
                    >tails at the end of that run - less than 100 mL ? between 80-98C I'd put
                    >this down to it having been a nice clean sugar-only fermentation.

                    Depending on the fermentation temperature and the yeast being
                    used, the wort can be fermented all the way out without producing
                    much in the way of off-flavours at all. I doubt it has much to do with
                    your sugar wash as such.

                    Generally, the range 75-85 F (24-29 C) is a bit high. While you get a
                    rapid fermentation you also get a lot of byproducts being generated
                    that will have to be sorted out later. Over the years I have rarely gone
                    above 22-23 C, and produce good beers with a full body and a very
                    smooth palate.

                    Without being too critical, and I know how much fun can be had with
                    all this technology and inventing, a lot of it appears unwarranted.

                    For the home hobbyist it is much cheaper and far more interesting
                    to start with a lot of basic flavours and aromas that can be got off the
                    shelf down at the local supermarket, and a sound knowledge of the
                    biochemistry involved before you go anywhere near the machinery.

                    And again, a lot of those essences being added to a straight ethyl
                    alcohol base that has already taken a fair bit of skill and patience to
                    refine, to make all sorts of imitations of the real thing, appear to me
                    fairly involved and expensive when there is nothing difficult in putting
                    your own recipe together and coming up with something distinctive
                    and original of your own.

                    I'm not quite sure sometimes whether I am old-fashioned or just
                    plain lazy, except that I much prefer to have a good healthy yeast
                    colony doing the work for me than trying to sort it all out myself.

                    Gil
                  • Ludwig
                    ... Ludwig ... -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 29, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
                      > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and pay
                      > any tax due it is completely legal


                      Ludwig

                      >
                      >
                      > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the column
                      > and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this hobby be
                      > legal (please God make it so =)
                      >
                      > Johan
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very well.
                      >
                      > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll try
                      >
                      > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
                      >
                      > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm up
                      > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the condensor
                      > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts out
                      > a
                      > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
                      > feed,
                      > and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully
                      > stripped
                      > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the boiler,
                      > and
                      > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam getting
                      > out,
                      > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element can
                      > be
                      > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high point)
                      > so
                      > that the contents dont simply syphon out.
                      >
                      > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
                      > (1500W)
                      > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling at
                      > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
                      > boiler
                      > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is too
                      > much
                      > alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It was good
                      >
                      > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting beneath
                      > the
                      > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always a
                      > steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured that
                      > the
                      > boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept above
                      > 99.8
                      > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down that
                      >
                      > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and measured
                      > it -
                      > couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
                      >
                      > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column, which
                      > dips
                      > down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a steady
                      > dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour lock to p
                      >
                      > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb the
                      > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast it
                      > is
                      > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
                      > running.
                      > Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the center
                      > of
                      > the column.
                      >
                      > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as packing.
                      > Fully insulated on the outside.
                      >
                      > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off at
                      > total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has dropped
                      > to
                      > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was never
                      > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C (82%
                      > ?)
                      > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts rising,
                      > then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some simple
                      > maths -
                      > if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you expect the
                      >
                      > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and run
                      > it
                      > at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make very
                      > high
                      > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
                      > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
                      > heading
                      > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
                      >
                      > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the whole
                      >
                      > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats because
                      > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
                      > always
                      > only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the run,
                      > when
                      > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
                      > head.
                      > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
                      > the
                      > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4 to
                      > 1.0 m
                      > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
                      >
                      > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes. It
                      > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the same
                      > setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-6
                      > hours
                      > to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a 1500W
                      >
                      > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
                      > different
                      > settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a taller
                      > stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and faster)
                      > with a
                      > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
                      >
                      > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over my
                      > standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do it.
                      > Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more than 25L
                      >
                      > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
                      > benefit,
                      > or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than 5L
                      > capacity werent stills ....
                      >
                      > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler, and
                      > one
                      > in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate, and
                      > the
                      > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
                      >
                      > Tony
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                      > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                      > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                      > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


                      --
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                      Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
                      http://shopnow.netscape.com/
                    • Johan Hemberg
                      Hi I live in sweden. It s illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a distiller (but it s common anyway). No one really care much if you have a still for
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 29, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi

                        I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
                        distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you have
                        a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a continous still
                        it would probably become a problem. I don't know anyone that makes fuel
                        alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll check if it's possible.
                        How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?

                        Johan


                        > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
                        > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and pay
                        > any tax due it is completely legal


                        Ludwig

                        >
                        >
                        > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the column
                        > and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this hobby be
                        > legal (please God make it so =)
                        >
                        > Johan
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
                        well.
                        >
                        > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
                        try
                        >
                        > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
                        >
                        > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
                        up
                        > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
                        condensor
                        > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
                        out
                        > a
                        > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
                        > feed,
                        > and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully
                        > stripped
                        > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the boiler,
                        > and
                        > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam getting
                        > out,
                        > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
                        can
                        > be
                        > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high point)
                        > so
                        > that the contents dont simply syphon out.
                        >
                        > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
                        > (1500W)
                        > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling at
                        > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
                        > boiler
                        > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is too
                        > much
                        > alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It was
                        good
                        >
                        > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
                        beneath
                        > the
                        > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always a
                        > steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured that
                        > the
                        > boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept above
                        > 99.8
                        > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
                        that
                        >
                        > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and measured
                        > it -
                        > couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
                        >
                        > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column, which
                        > dips
                        > down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a steady
                        > dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour lock to
                        p
                        >
                        > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
                        the
                        > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
                        it
                        > is
                        > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
                        > running.
                        > Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the
                        center
                        > of
                        > the column.
                        >
                        > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as packing.
                        > Fully insulated on the outside.
                        >
                        > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off at
                        > total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
                        dropped
                        > to
                        > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
                        never
                        > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
                        (82%
                        > ?)
                        > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts rising,
                        > then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some simple
                        > maths -
                        > if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you expect
                        the
                        >
                        > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and run
                        > it
                        > at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make very
                        > high
                        > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
                        > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
                        > heading
                        > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
                        >
                        > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
                        whole
                        >
                        > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
                        because
                        > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
                        > always
                        > only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the run,
                        > when
                        > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
                        > head.
                        > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
                        > the
                        > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4 to
                        > 1.0 m
                        > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
                        >
                        > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
                        It
                        > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the same
                        > setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-6
                        > hours
                        > to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a
                        1500W
                        >
                        > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
                        > different
                        > settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a taller
                        > stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and faster)
                        > with a
                        > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
                        >
                        > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over my
                        > standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do it.
                        > Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more than
                        25L
                        >
                        > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
                        > benefit,
                        > or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than 5L
                        > capacity werent stills ....
                        >
                        > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler, and
                        > one
                        > in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate, and
                        > the
                        > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
                        >
                        > Tony
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                        > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                        > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.


                        --
                        Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
                        Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
                        http://shopnow.netscape.com/



                        To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                        distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • BOKAKOB
                        With all due respect, isn t it sort of remindign me of a fortified beer? Gil Hardwick wrote:In thinking through all this stuff, I
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 30, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment

                          With all due respect, isn't it sort of remindign me of a fortified beer?

                           Gil Hardwick <gruagach@...> wrote:

                          In thinking through all this stuff, I grant the simple chemistry of
                          producing ethyl alcohol but still consider it a waste to distill out
                          the whole of the wort then discard the dregs before redistilling
                          and refining the alcohol to be used as a base for whatever.

                          At the moment I am seriously planning on taking only about 1/2
                          to 2/3 of the wort and distilling that, then fortifying the remaining
                          wort with the refined ethyl alcohol before topping it up and aging
                          it in the oak.

                          Alternatively, a separate sugar wash can be made to produce
                          the extra alcohol for fortifying the original recipe and so retain
                          all that body, and its complex flavours and aromas.

                          Is anyone else using this or a similar method?

                          Gil


                          To unsubscribe from this group send an email to  distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                          I can be wrong I must say.
                          Cheers, Alex...



                          Do you Yahoo!?
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                        • Gil Hardwick
                          ... No, not this batch which is made from molasses and dark brown sugar not malt. My question concerned what reason would there be to make up a wort so full of
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 30, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            At 04:25 AM 30/12/02 -0800, you wrote:

                            >With all due respect, isn't it sort of remindign me of a fortified beer?

                            No, not this batch which is made from molasses and dark
                            brown sugar not malt.

                            My question concerned what reason would there be to make
                            up a wort so full of complex flavours and aromas only to distill
                            it all out then add bought essences.

                            Gil
                          • Ludwig
                            For the Federal government their is a application fee and a annual report on what you made during that year. As long as you stay under (? 10,000 gallon) their
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 30, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              For the Federal government their is a application fee and a annual
                              report on what you made during that year. As long as you stay under (?
                              10,000 gallon) their is no Federal tax. You can use your produce on the
                              premisises where your still is without tax. The state is a completely
                              different matter. Some that I have lived in required a $5,000 dollar
                              bond and a application fee plus monthly reports on what you produced
                              with a road tax on each gallon. Reports have to be filed within 10 days
                              of their due date or your license is revoked. Each of the 50 states
                              probably have thier own set of rules. I'm not sure about food grade.
                              I'm sure it would change with each state. If you don't sell any I
                              don't think their is a problem with any state as long as you don't state
                              producing any large amounts.

                              One question, Strand Gert is out of Sweden. If distilling is illegal
                              then how did he get to be such a big company? Surely not from exporting
                              all of his ware.

                              Ludwig

                              Johan Hemberg wrote:

                              >
                              > Hi
                              >
                              > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
                              > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you have
                              > a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a continous still
                              > it would probably become a problem. I don't know anyone that makes fuel
                              > alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll check if it's possible.
                              > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?
                              >
                              > Johan
                              >
                              >
                              > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
                              > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and pay
                              > > any tax due it is completely legal
                              >
                              >
                              > Ludwig
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the column
                              > > and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this hobby be
                              > > legal (please God make it so =)
                              > >
                              > > Johan
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
                              > well.
                              > >
                              > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
                              > try
                              > >
                              > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
                              > >
                              > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
                              > up
                              > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
                              > condensor
                              > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
                              > out
                              > > a
                              > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
                              > > feed,
                              > > and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully
                              > > stripped
                              > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the boiler,
                              > > and
                              > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam getting
                              > > out,
                              > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
                              > can
                              > > be
                              > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high point)
                              > > so
                              > > that the contents dont simply syphon out.
                              > >
                              > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
                              > > (1500W)
                              > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling at
                              > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
                              > > boiler
                              > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is too
                              > > much
                              > > alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It was
                              > good
                              > >
                              > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
                              > beneath
                              > > the
                              > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always a
                              > > steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured that
                              > > the
                              > > boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept above
                              > > 99.8
                              > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
                              > that
                              > >
                              > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and measured
                              > > it -
                              > > couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
                              > >
                              > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column, which
                              > > dips
                              > > down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a steady
                              > > dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour lock to
                              > p
                              > >
                              > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
                              > the
                              > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
                              > it
                              > > is
                              > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
                              > > running.
                              > > Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the
                              > center
                              > > of
                              > > the column.
                              > >
                              > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as packing.
                              > > Fully insulated on the outside.
                              > >
                              > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off at
                              > > total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
                              > dropped
                              > > to
                              > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
                              > never
                              > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
                              > (82%
                              > > ?)
                              > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts rising,
                              > > then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some simple
                              > > maths -
                              > > if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you expect
                              > the
                              > >
                              > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and run
                              > > it
                              > > at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make very
                              > > high
                              > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
                              > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
                              > > heading
                              > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
                              > >
                              > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
                              > whole
                              > >
                              > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
                              > because
                              > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
                              > > always
                              > > only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the run,
                              > > when
                              > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
                              > > head.
                              > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
                              > > the
                              > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4 to
                              > > 1.0 m
                              > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
                              > >
                              > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
                              > It
                              > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the same
                              > > setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-6
                              > > hours
                              > > to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a
                              > 1500W
                              > >
                              > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
                              > > different
                              > > settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a taller
                              > > stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and faster)
                              > > with a
                              > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
                              > >
                              > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over my
                              > > standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do it.
                              > > Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more than
                              > 25L
                              > >
                              > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
                              > > benefit,
                              > > or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than 5L
                              > > capacity werent stills ....
                              > >
                              > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler, and
                              > > one
                              > > in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate, and
                              > > the
                              > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
                              > >
                              > > Tony
                              > >
                              > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                              > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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                            • Johan Hemberg
                              Well, sweden is a funny country when it comes to homedistillation. Selling active carbon in 25 kg sacks and turbo yeast and essences and you name it is no
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 30, 2002
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                                Well, sweden is a funny country when it comes to homedistillation.
                                Selling active carbon in 25 kg sacks and turbo yeast and essences and
                                you name it is no problem, you just can't sell the distiller itself.
                                Anything else is legal. In my town we got a company that sells a ton of
                                sugar a week to customers without asking questions. And distillers is
                                common, about 40 % of the consumed alcohol is from other source than
                                goverment controlled alcohol.

                                Johan


                                For the Federal government their is a application fee and a annual
                                report on what you made during that year. As long as you stay under (?
                                10,000 gallon) their is no Federal tax. You can use your produce on the

                                premisises where your still is without tax. The state is a completely
                                different matter. Some that I have lived in required a $5,000 dollar
                                bond and a application fee plus monthly reports on what you produced
                                with a road tax on each gallon. Reports have to be filed within 10 days

                                of their due date or your license is revoked. Each of the 50 states
                                probably have thier own set of rules. I'm not sure about food grade.
                                I'm sure it would change with each state. If you don't sell any I
                                don't think their is a problem with any state as long as you don't state

                                producing any large amounts.

                                One question, Strand Gert is out of Sweden. If distilling is illegal
                                then how did he get to be such a big company? Surely not from exporting

                                all of his ware.

                                Ludwig

                                Johan Hemberg wrote:

                                >
                                > Hi
                                >
                                > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
                                > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you
                                > have a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a
                                > continous still it would probably become a problem. I don't know
                                > anyone that makes fuel alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll
                                > check if it's possible. How much do you have to pay to make fuel
                                > alcohol in USA?
                                >
                                > Johan
                                >
                                >
                                > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
                                > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and
                                > > pay any tax due it is completely legal
                                >
                                >
                                > Ludwig
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the
                                > > column and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this
                                > > hobby be legal (please God make it so =)
                                > >
                                > > Johan
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
                                > well.
                                > >
                                > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
                                > try
                                > >
                                > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
                                > >
                                > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
                                > up
                                > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
                                > condensor
                                > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
                                > out
                                > > a
                                > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming

                                > > feed, and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The
                                > > fully stripped
                                > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the
                                boiler,
                                > > and
                                > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam
                                getting
                                > > out,
                                > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
                                > can
                                > > be
                                > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high
                                > > point) so that the contents dont simply syphon out.
                                > >
                                > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
                                > > (1500W)
                                > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling
                                at
                                > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
                                > > boiler
                                > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is
                                > > too much alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little.

                                > > It was
                                > good
                                > >
                                > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
                                > beneath
                                > > the
                                > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always

                                > > a steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured
                                > > that the boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is
                                > > kept above 99.8
                                > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
                                > that
                                > >
                                > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and
                                > > measured it - couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
                                > >
                                > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column,
                                > > which dips down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed
                                > > at a steady dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a
                                > > vapour lock to
                                > p
                                > >
                                > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
                                > the
                                > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
                                > it
                                > > is
                                > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
                                > > running. Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed
                                > > into the
                                > center
                                > > of
                                > > the column.
                                > >
                                > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as
                                > > packing. Fully insulated on the outside.
                                > >
                                > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off
                                > > at total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
                                > dropped
                                > > to
                                > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
                                > never
                                > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
                                > (82%
                                > > ?)
                                > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts
                                > > rising, then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some

                                > > simple maths - if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%,
                                > > then you expect
                                > the
                                > >
                                > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and
                                > > run it at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to
                                > > make very high
                                > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
                                > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
                                > > heading
                                > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
                                > >
                                > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
                                > whole
                                > >
                                > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
                                > because
                                > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
                                > > always only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in

                                > > the run, when
                                > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
                                > > head.
                                > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
                                > > the
                                > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4
                                to
                                > > 1.0 m
                                > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
                                > >
                                > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
                                > It
                                > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the
                                > > same setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took
                                > > around 5-6 hours to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what
                                > > I'd expect for a
                                > 1500W
                                > >
                                > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
                                > > different settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there
                                > > was a taller stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity

                                > > (and faster) with a
                                > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
                                > >
                                > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over
                                > > my standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do

                                > > it. Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more
                                > > than
                                > 25L
                                > >
                                > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
                                > > benefit, or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with
                                > > less than 5L capacity werent stills ....
                                > >
                                > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler,
                                > > and one in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed

                                > > rate, and the
                                > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
                                > >
                                > > Tony
                                > >
                                > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                                > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                > >
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                                > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
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                                > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                > >
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                                > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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                              • Ludwig
                                Living here in the USA I have noticed their is no commerical whiskey from Sweden in any of our liquor stores that I have seen. Could you pass along the names
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                  Living here in the USA I have noticed their is no commerical whiskey
                                  from Sweden in any of our liquor stores that I have seen. Could you
                                  pass along the names of some of Swedens better name brands. I do not
                                  recall ever seeing even one.

                                  Ludwig






                                  Johan Hemberg wrote:

                                  >
                                  > Hi
                                  >
                                  > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
                                  > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you have
                                  > a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a continous still
                                  > it would probably become a problem. I don't know anyone that makes fuel
                                  > alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll check if it's possible.
                                  > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?
                                  >
                                  > Johan
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
                                  > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and pay
                                  > > any tax due it is completely legal
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ludwig
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the column
                                  > > and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this hobby be
                                  > > legal (please God make it so =)
                                  > >
                                  > > Johan
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
                                  > well.
                                  > >
                                  > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
                                  > try
                                  > >
                                  > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
                                  > >
                                  > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
                                  > up
                                  > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
                                  > condensor
                                  > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
                                  > out
                                  > > a
                                  > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
                                  > > feed,
                                  > > and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully
                                  > > stripped
                                  > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the boiler,
                                  > > and
                                  > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam getting
                                  > > out,
                                  > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
                                  > can
                                  > > be
                                  > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high point)
                                  > > so
                                  > > that the contents dont simply syphon out.
                                  > >
                                  > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
                                  > > (1500W)
                                  > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling at
                                  > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
                                  > > boiler
                                  > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is too
                                  > > much
                                  > > alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It was
                                  > good
                                  > >
                                  > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
                                  > beneath
                                  > > the
                                  > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always a
                                  > > steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured that
                                  > > the
                                  > > boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept above
                                  > > 99.8
                                  > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
                                  > that
                                  > >
                                  > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and measured
                                  > > it -
                                  > > couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
                                  > >
                                  > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column, which
                                  > > dips
                                  > > down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a steady
                                  > > dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour lock to
                                  > p
                                  > >
                                  > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
                                  > the
                                  > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
                                  > it
                                  > > is
                                  > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
                                  > > running.
                                  > > Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the
                                  > center
                                  > > of
                                  > > the column.
                                  > >
                                  > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as packing.
                                  > > Fully insulated on the outside.
                                  > >
                                  > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off at
                                  > > total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
                                  > dropped
                                  > > to
                                  > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
                                  > never
                                  > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
                                  > (82%
                                  > > ?)
                                  > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts rising,
                                  > > then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some simple
                                  > > maths -
                                  > > if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you expect
                                  > the
                                  > >
                                  > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and run
                                  > > it
                                  > > at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make very
                                  > > high
                                  > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
                                  > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
                                  > > heading
                                  > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
                                  > >
                                  > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
                                  > whole
                                  > >
                                  > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
                                  > because
                                  > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
                                  > > always
                                  > > only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the run,
                                  > > when
                                  > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
                                  > > head.
                                  > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
                                  > > the
                                  > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4 to
                                  > > 1.0 m
                                  > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
                                  > >
                                  > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
                                  > It
                                  > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the same
                                  > > setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-6
                                  > > hours
                                  > > to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a
                                  > 1500W
                                  > >
                                  > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
                                  > > different
                                  > > settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a taller
                                  > > stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and faster)
                                  > > with a
                                  > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
                                  > >
                                  > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over my
                                  > > standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do it.
                                  > > Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more than
                                  > 25L
                                  > >
                                  > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
                                  > > benefit,
                                  > > or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than 5L
                                  > > capacity werent stills ....
                                  > >
                                  > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler, and
                                  > > one
                                  > > in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate, and
                                  > > the
                                  > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
                                  > >
                                  > > Tony
                                  > >
                                  > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                                  > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                                  > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                  > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • Ludwig
                                  ... For the Federal Government the license is free. The tax payable on a gallon of alcohol was very little. I do not remember how much but it wasn t a
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jan 2, 2003
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                                    Johan Hemberg wrote:

                                    > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?

                                    For the Federal Government the license is free. The tax payable on a
                                    gallon of alcohol was very little. I do not remember how much but it
                                    wasn't a problem. You could produce up to (I'm not to sure about this)
                                    around 10,000 gallon per year. Over that amount and you had to get a
                                    license for a bigger facility and that cost some money as well as a lot
                                    more paper to fill out.

                                    On the state level it was a completely different matter. The one and
                                    only state I ever called, wanted a $5,000 dollar bond. The tax was .23
                                    cents per gallon. What really chapped me was the fact that gasoline was
                                    taxed at .21 cents per gallon. The tax had to be paid monthly and you
                                    had to have it paid by the 10th of each month or your license was
                                    revolked. You were required to keep track of all grain grown, used or
                                    purchased for the production of alcohol, how many gallons were produced
                                    and on what day, and how much DDG&S you produced, how much DDG&S you
                                    sold or how much you fed your livestock. What kind and how much
                                    denaturant you purchased, where you got it, how much you paid for it,
                                    how much you used on each day and your total on hand of grain, natural
                                    alcohol, denaturant, denatured alcohol and DDG&S. Any changes you made
                                    to your still had to be reported and details given. You were also
                                    required to give a security plan. How you were going to keep people
                                    from stealing your alcohol and your plan had to be approved before your
                                    license would be granted.

                                    To be honest, I lost the fuel alcohol scent somewhere along the way. I
                                    still think about it on slower days when my mind wanders. I quickly
                                    focus on more pressing matter like food, water, shade. Maybe someday,
                                    but not anytime some! The secretary would cost me more than I would
                                    ever hope to save by producing my own fuel

                                    Ludwig
                                  • motie_d <motie_d@yahoo.com>
                                    ... a ... it ... this) ... a ... lot ... and ... was .23 ... gasoline was ... you ... or ... produced ... you ... it, ... natural ... made ... people ... your
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jan 3, 2003
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                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ludwig <Bluestar792@n...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Johan Hemberg wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?
                                      >
                                      > For the Federal Government the license is free. The tax payable on
                                      a
                                      > gallon of alcohol was very little. I do not remember how much but
                                      it
                                      > wasn't a problem. You could produce up to (I'm not to sure about
                                      this)
                                      > around 10,000 gallon per year. Over that amount and you had to get
                                      a
                                      > license for a bigger facility and that cost some money as well as a
                                      lot
                                      > more paper to fill out.
                                      >
                                      > On the state level it was a completely different matter. The one
                                      and
                                      > only state I ever called, wanted a $5,000 dollar bond. The tax
                                      was .23
                                      > cents per gallon. What really chapped me was the fact that
                                      gasoline was
                                      > taxed at .21 cents per gallon. The tax had to be paid monthly and
                                      you
                                      > had to have it paid by the 10th of each month or your license was
                                      > revolked. You were required to keep track of all grain grown, used
                                      or
                                      > purchased for the production of alcohol, how many gallons were
                                      produced
                                      > and on what day, and how much DDG&S you produced, how much DDG&S
                                      you
                                      > sold or how much you fed your livestock. What kind and how much
                                      > denaturant you purchased, where you got it, how much you paid for
                                      it,
                                      > how much you used on each day and your total on hand of grain,
                                      natural
                                      > alcohol, denaturant, denatured alcohol and DDG&S. Any changes you
                                      made
                                      > to your still had to be reported and details given. You were also
                                      > required to give a security plan. How you were going to keep
                                      people
                                      > from stealing your alcohol and your plan had to be approved before
                                      your
                                      > license would be granted.
                                      >
                                      > To be honest, I lost the fuel alcohol scent somewhere along the
                                      way. I
                                      > still think about it on slower days when my mind wanders. I
                                      quickly
                                      > focus on more pressing matter like food, water, shade. Maybe
                                      someday,
                                      > but not anytime some! The secretary would cost me more than I
                                      would
                                      > ever hope to save by producing my own fuel
                                      >
                                      > Ludwig



                                      They scared me away too. And you gave the short condensed version of
                                      the requirements!

                                      Motie
                                    • Johan Hemberg
                                      Most famous exported Liquor from Sweden is Absolut Vodka: Check their ugly homepage: www.absolut.com There are most likely more brands exported as well, I
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jan 3, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Most famous exported Liquor from Sweden is Absolut Vodka:
                                        Check their ugly homepage: www.absolut.com

                                        There are most likely more brands exported as well, I don't know what
                                        brands but if you are interested you could check
                                        http://www.systembolaget.se/english/xindex.htm Systembolaget stores are
                                        the only place in Sweden you can buy liquor (at the moment, things may
                                        change).

                                        When Sweden joined the European Union they made a small mistake. It
                                        became legal to own a distiller for water distillation. It took at least
                                        a year before people realized this mistake and then you could buy
                                        distillation apparatus in almost every home brewing store. After a year
                                        or two, the government corrected the law and it was illegal again to own
                                        a distiller or parts to one and they requested that people would
                                        voluntarily give their stills to the police.
                                        I think they got one still in entire Sweden =)
                                        So maybe they haven't thought about if it is legal to own a still for
                                        production of fuel. You never know, I'll try to find out. (I wouldn't
                                        mind to denature the mash, a solar powered continuous still with
                                        computer control would be worth it)

                                        Johan


                                        Living here in the USA I have noticed their is no commerical whiskey
                                        from Sweden in any of our liquor stores that I have seen. Could you
                                        pass along the names of some of Swedens better name brands. I do not
                                        recall ever seeing even one.

                                        Ludwig






                                        Johan Hemberg wrote:

                                        >
                                        > Hi
                                        >
                                        > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
                                        > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you
                                        > have a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a
                                        > continous still it would probably become a problem. I don't know
                                        > anyone that makes fuel alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll
                                        > check if it's possible. How much do you have to pay to make fuel
                                        > alcohol in USA?
                                        >
                                        > Johan
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
                                        > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and
                                        > > pay any tax due it is completely legal
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Ludwig
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the
                                        > > column and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this
                                        > > hobby be legal (please God make it so =)
                                        > >
                                        > > Johan
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
                                        > well.
                                        > >
                                        > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
                                        > try
                                        > >
                                        > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
                                        > >
                                        > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
                                        > up
                                        > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
                                        > condensor
                                        > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
                                        > out
                                        > > a
                                        > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming

                                        > > feed, and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The
                                        > > fully stripped
                                        > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the
                                        boiler,
                                        > > and
                                        > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam
                                        getting
                                        > > out,
                                        > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
                                        > can
                                        > > be
                                        > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high
                                        > > point) so that the contents dont simply syphon out.
                                        > >
                                        > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
                                        > > (1500W)
                                        > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling
                                        at
                                        > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
                                        > > boiler
                                        > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is
                                        > > too much alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little.

                                        > > It was
                                        > good
                                        > >
                                        > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
                                        > beneath
                                        > > the
                                        > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always

                                        > > a steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured
                                        > > that the boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is
                                        > > kept above 99.8
                                        > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
                                        > that
                                        > >
                                        > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and
                                        > > measured it - couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
                                        > >
                                        > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column,
                                        > > which dips down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed
                                        > > at a steady dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a
                                        > > vapour lock to
                                        > p
                                        > >
                                        > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
                                        > the
                                        > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
                                        > it
                                        > > is
                                        > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
                                        > > running. Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed
                                        > > into the
                                        > center
                                        > > of
                                        > > the column.
                                        > >
                                        > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as
                                        > > packing. Fully insulated on the outside.
                                        > >
                                        > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off
                                        > > at total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
                                        > dropped
                                        > > to
                                        > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
                                        > never
                                        > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
                                        > (82%
                                        > > ?)
                                        > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts
                                        > > rising, then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some

                                        > > simple maths - if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%,
                                        > > then you expect
                                        > the
                                        > >
                                        > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and
                                        > > run it at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to
                                        > > make very high
                                        > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
                                        > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
                                        > > heading
                                        > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
                                        > >
                                        > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
                                        > whole
                                        > >
                                        > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
                                        > because
                                        > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
                                        > > always only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in

                                        > > the run, when
                                        > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
                                        > > head.
                                        > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
                                        > > the
                                        > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4
                                        to
                                        > > 1.0 m
                                        > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
                                        > >
                                        > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
                                        > It
                                        > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the
                                        > > same setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took
                                        > > around 5-6 hours to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what
                                        > > I'd expect for a
                                        > 1500W
                                        > >
                                        > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
                                        > > different settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there
                                        > > was a taller stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity

                                        > > (and faster) with a
                                        > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
                                        > >
                                        > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over
                                        > > my standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do

                                        > > it. Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more
                                        > > than
                                        > 25L
                                        > >
                                        > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
                                        > > benefit, or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with
                                        > > less than 5L capacity werent stills ....
                                        > >
                                        > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler,
                                        > > and one in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed

                                        > > rate, and the
                                        > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
                                        > >
                                        > > Tony
                                        > >
                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                                        > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                        > >
                                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                                        > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                        > >
                                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >
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                                      • Ludwig
                                        We looked in a liquor store today and sure enough their it was. Rated as one of their better vodka s. Priced accordingly Ludwig ... -- Your favorite stores,
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jan 5, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          We looked in a liquor store today and sure enough their it was. Rated
                                          as one of their better vodka's. Priced accordingly

                                          Ludwig

                                          Johan Hemberg wrote:

                                          >
                                          > Most famous exported Liquor from Sweden is Absolut Vodka:
                                          > Check their ugly homepage: www.absolut.com
                                          >
                                          > There are most likely more brands exported as well, I don't know what
                                          > brands but if you are interested you could check
                                          > http://www.systembolaget.se/english/xindex.htm Systembolaget stores are
                                          > the only place in Sweden you can buy liquor (at the moment, things may
                                          > change).
                                          >
                                          > When Sweden joined the European Union they made a small mistake. It
                                          > became legal to own a distiller for water distillation. It took at least
                                          > a year before people realized this mistake and then you could buy
                                          > distillation apparatus in almost every home brewing store. After a year
                                          > or two, the government corrected the law and it was illegal again to own
                                          > a distiller or parts to one and they requested that people would
                                          > voluntarily give their stills to the police.
                                          > I think they got one still in entire Sweden =)
                                          > So maybe they haven't thought about if it is legal to own a still for
                                          > production of fuel. You never know, I'll try to find out. (I wouldn't
                                          > mind to denature the mash, a solar powered continuous still with
                                          > computer control would be worth it)
                                          >
                                          > Johan
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Living here in the USA I have noticed their is no commerical whiskey
                                          > from Sweden in any of our liquor stores that I have seen. Could you
                                          > pass along the names of some of Swedens better name brands. I do not
                                          > recall ever seeing even one.
                                          >
                                          > Ludwig
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Johan Hemberg wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          > > Hi
                                          > >
                                          > > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
                                          > > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you
                                          > > have a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a
                                          > > continous still it would probably become a problem. I don't know
                                          > > anyone that makes fuel alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll
                                          > > check if it's possible. How much do you have to pay to make fuel
                                          > > alcohol in USA?
                                          > >
                                          > > Johan
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
                                          > > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and
                                          > > > pay any tax due it is completely legal
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Ludwig
                                          > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the
                                          > > > column and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this
                                          > > > hobby be legal (please God make it so =)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Johan
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
                                          > > well.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
                                          > > try
                                          > > >
                                          > > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
                                          > > up
                                          > > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
                                          > > condensor
                                          > > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
                                          > > out
                                          > > > a
                                          > > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
                                          >
                                          > > > feed, and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The
                                          > > > fully stripped
                                          > > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the
                                          > boiler,
                                          > > > and
                                          > > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam
                                          > getting
                                          > > > out,
                                          > > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
                                          > > can
                                          > > > be
                                          > > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high
                                          > > > point) so that the contents dont simply syphon out.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
                                          > > > (1500W)
                                          > > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling
                                          > at
                                          > > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
                                          > > > boiler
                                          > > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is
                                          > > > too much alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little.
                                          >
                                          > > > It was
                                          > > good
                                          > > >
                                          > > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
                                          > > beneath
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always
                                          >
                                          > > > a steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured
                                          > > > that the boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is
                                          > > > kept above 99.8
                                          > > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
                                          > > that
                                          > > >
                                          > > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and
                                          > > > measured it - couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column,
                                          > > > which dips down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed
                                          > > > at a steady dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a
                                          > > > vapour lock to
                                          > > p
                                          > > >
                                          > > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
                                          > > the
                                          > > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
                                          > > it
                                          > > > is
                                          > > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
                                          > > > running. Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed
                                          > > > into the
                                          > > center
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > the column.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as
                                          > > > packing. Fully insulated on the outside.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off
                                          > > > at total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
                                          > > dropped
                                          > > > to
                                          > > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
                                          > > never
                                          > > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
                                          > > (82%
                                          > > > ?)
                                          > > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts
                                          > > > rising, then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some
                                          >
                                          > > > simple maths - if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%,
                                          > > > then you expect
                                          > > the
                                          > > >
                                          > > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and
                                          > > > run it at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to
                                          > > > make very high
                                          > > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
                                          > > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
                                          > > > heading
                                          > > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
                                          > > whole
                                          > > >
                                          > > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
                                          > > because
                                          > > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
                                          > > > always only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in
                                          >
                                          > > > the run, when
                                          > > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
                                          > > > head.
                                          > > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4
                                          > to
                                          > > > 1.0 m
                                          > > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
                                          > > It
                                          > > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the
                                          > > > same setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took
                                          > > > around 5-6 hours to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what
                                          > > > I'd expect for a
                                          > > 1500W
                                          > > >
                                          > > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
                                          > > > different settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there
                                          > > > was a taller stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity
                                          >
                                          > > > (and faster) with a
                                          > > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over
                                          > > > my standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do
                                          >
                                          > > > it. Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more
                                          > > > than
                                          > > 25L
                                          > > >
                                          > > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
                                          > > > benefit, or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with
                                          > > > less than 5L capacity werent stills ....
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler,
                                          > > > and one in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed
                                          >
                                          > > > rate, and the
                                          > > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Tony
                                          > > >
                                          > > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                                          > > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                                          > > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                          > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --
                                          > > Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
                                          > > Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape!
                                          > > http://shopnow.netscape.com/
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                                          > >
                                          > >
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                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
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                                          > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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                                          >
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                                        • waljaco <waljaco@hotmail.com>
                                          You could fortify it by freeze-distillation , a 10% wash giving you a 20% product which is the usual alcohol content of fortified wines. See msg 3197 by
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jan 7, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            You could fortify it by 'freeze-distillation', a 10% wash giving you
                                            a 20% product which is the usual alcohol content of fortified wines.
                                            See msg 3197 by 'ups474' (Jack) for details.
                                            Wal

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Gil Hardwick <gruagach@h...> wrote:
                                            > At 04:25 AM 30/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >With all due respect, isn't it sort of remindign me of a fortified
                                            beer?
                                            >
                                            > No, not this batch which is made from molasses and dark
                                            > brown sugar not malt.
                                            >
                                            > My question concerned what reason would there be to make
                                            > up a wort so full of complex flavours and aromas only to distill
                                            > it all out then add bought essences.
                                            >
                                            > Gil
                                          • Aaron Pelly
                                            ... Jack seems to have been absent for some time now. I hope it s not permanent.
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jan 8, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              > See msg 3197 by 'ups474' (Jack) for details.
                                              > Wal

                                              Jack seems to have been absent for some time now. I hope it's not permanent.
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