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Re: More Molecular Sieve...

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  • travellerwiz
    Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought about running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that Methanol has a higher
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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      Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought about
      running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that
      Methanol has a higher potential energy then Ethanol and that is why
      it is used in RC fuel and Race car fuel! Do you know if this is true?

      --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
      > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty of
      > reading for tonight.
      >
      > Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last bit
      of
      > water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for those
      > unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw the
      > molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
      > pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can
      absorb
      > up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to get
      the
      > pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like activated
      > carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water
      out.
      > Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-users,
      we
      > don't have to worry about all that.
      >
      > Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a fuel
      > injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question really
      had
      > to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually doing
      it?
      > Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
      > experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even more
      > compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and other
      > benefits.
      >
      > Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding most
      > cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more" required
      > for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that one
      > could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to take
      > advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
      > temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but with
      the
      > water built right into the fuel!
      >
      > -CX
    • c2h5oh_x
      Methanol has a bit of andvantage power-wise because it has more oxygen it it alreay. The side effect being that the jets or injectors need to be even LARGER
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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        Methanol has a bit of andvantage power-wise because it has more
        oxygen it it alreay. The side effect being that the jets or injectors
        need to be even LARGER than with ethanol. That also means that you
        get worse "milage". Methanol is also highly poisonous. It's possible
        to get enough of it through your skin or lungs for it to be a
        problem. You also can't make it yourself.

        So, yeah, for top fuel racing and stuff, Methanol is the fuel of
        choice. But ethanol has only slightly less performance in terms of
        power. You can make it yourself. It's not (too) poisonous. The flow
        rate is lower which means better milage.

        Is that everything?

        BTW, there are a few racers who are using ethanol now.

        -CX

        --- In Distillers@y..., "travellerwiz" <travellerw@u...> wrote:
        > Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought
        about
        > running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that
        > Methanol has a higher potential energy then Ethanol and that is why
        > it is used in RC fuel and Race car fuel! Do you know if this is
        true?
        >
        > --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
        > > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty of
        > > reading for tonight.
        > >
        > > Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last
        bit
        > of
        > > water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for those
        > > unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw the
        > > molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
        > > pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can
        > absorb
        > > up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to get
        > the
        > > pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like
        activated
        > > carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water
        > out.
        > > Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-
        users,
        > we
        > > don't have to worry about all that.
        > >
        > > Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a fuel
        > > injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question really
        > had
        > > to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually doing
        > it?
        > > Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
        > > experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even
        more
        > > compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and
        other
        > > benefits.
        > >
        > > Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding
        most
        > > cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more"
        required
        > > for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that one
        > > could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to take
        > > advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
        > > temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but with
        > the
        > > water built right into the fuel!
        > >
        > > -CX
      • travellerwiz
        Thanks for the info.. Seems to make sense to me.. I have actually heard of people making Methanol at home so they can brew their own RC fuel. So it is
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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          Thanks for the info.. Seems to make sense to me.. I have actually
          heard of people making Methanol at home so they can brew their own RC
          fuel. So it is possible, but you are right about the poisonous part.

          If you are thinking about converting a RC engine to run on Ethanol
          then let me know. I have some good recipes for RC fuel, you would
          just have to substitute the Methanol for Ethanol. I think it would
          work fine. You may have to increase the amount of Nitro you use as I
          don't think Ethanol will cause a reaction with the glow plug. You
          might try posting the question on.

          http://www.rcwatch.com or http://www.rcuniverse.com

          Those guys have done some pretty weird stuff with RC engines. One of
          them may have experience with this.

          --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
          > Methanol has a bit of andvantage power-wise because it has more
          > oxygen it it alreay. The side effect being that the jets or
          injectors
          > need to be even LARGER than with ethanol. That also means that you
          > get worse "milage". Methanol is also highly poisonous. It's
          possible
          > to get enough of it through your skin or lungs for it to be a
          > problem. You also can't make it yourself.
          >
          > So, yeah, for top fuel racing and stuff, Methanol is the fuel of
          > choice. But ethanol has only slightly less performance in terms of
          > power. You can make it yourself. It's not (too) poisonous. The flow
          > rate is lower which means better milage.
          >
          > Is that everything?
          >
          > BTW, there are a few racers who are using ethanol now.
          >
          > -CX
          >
          > --- In Distillers@y..., "travellerwiz" <travellerw@u...> wrote:
          > > Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought
          > about
          > > running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that
          > > Methanol has a higher potential energy then Ethanol and that is
          why
          > > it is used in RC fuel and Race car fuel! Do you know if this is
          > true?
          > >
          > > --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
          > > > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty
          of
          > > > reading for tonight.
          > > >
          > > > Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last
          > bit
          > > of
          > > > water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for
          those
          > > > unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw
          the
          > > > molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
          > > > pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can
          > > absorb
          > > > up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to
          get
          > > the
          > > > pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like
          > activated
          > > > carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water
          > > out.
          > > > Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-
          > users,
          > > we
          > > > don't have to worry about all that.
          > > >
          > > > Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a
          fuel
          > > > injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question
          really
          > > had
          > > > to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually
          doing
          > > it?
          > > > Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
          > > > experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even
          > more
          > > > compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and
          > other
          > > > benefits.
          > > >
          > > > Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding
          > most
          > > > cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more"
          > required
          > > > for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that
          one
          > > > could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to
          take
          > > > advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
          > > > temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but
          with
          > > the
          > > > water built right into the fuel!
          > > >
          > > > -CX
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