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Re: [Distillers] More Molecular Sieve...

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  • BOKAKOB
    Is this your cover in case you get picked up? c2h5oh_x wrote:Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty of reading for
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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      Is this your cover in case you get picked up?

       c2h5oh_x <c2h5oh_x@...> wrote:

      Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty of
      reading for tonight.

      Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last bit of
      water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for those
      unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw the
      molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
      pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can absorb
      up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to get the
      pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like activated
      carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water out.
      Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-users, we
      don't have to worry about all that.

      Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a fuel
      injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question really had
      to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually doing it?
      Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
      experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even more
      compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and other
      benefits.

      Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding most
      cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more" required
      for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that one
      could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to take
      advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
      temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but with the
      water built right into the fuel!

      -CX



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      I can be wrong I must say.
      Cheers, Alex...



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    • Keith Addison
      How To Modify Your Car To Run On Alcohol Fuel: Guidelines for converting gasoline engines (With Specific Instructions for Air-Cooled Volkswagens) by Roger
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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        How To Modify Your Car To Run On Alcohol Fuel: "Guidelines for
        converting gasoline engines (With Specific Instructions for
        Air-Cooled Volkswagens)" by Roger Lippman, April 1982 -- Five-chapter
        online book:
        http://terrasol.home.igc.org/alky/alky.htm

        How to modify an injection system: It's Toyota-specific, but applies
        to most electronic fuel injection systems.
        http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9975/dataBySubject/EFImods.html

        Alcohol as an Engine Fuel -- Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel Manual. Biofuels Library
        http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me1.html

        How To Adapt Your Automobile Engine For Ethyl Alcohol Use -- Mother
        Earth Alcohol Fuel Manual. Biofuels Library
        http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me2.html

        Ron Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System -- Mother Earth
        Alcohol Fuel Manual. Biofuels Library
        http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html

        The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel
        http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html

        Chapter 1 AN OVERVIEW
        Alcohol Fuel
        Uses of Alcohol Fuel
        Other Alternative Fuels
        http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual1-2.html

        Chapter 2 BASIC FUEL THEORY
        Chemical Composition
        Combustion Properties
        Volatility
        Octane Ratings
        Water Injection
        Exhaust Composition
        Engine Performance - Straight Alcohol
        Engine Performance - Alcohol Blends
        http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual1-2.html#ch2

        Chapter 3 UTILIZATION OF ALCOHOL FUELS
        Methods of Utilization
        Alcohol Blends
        Pure Alcohol
        Diesel Engines
        Engine Modification
        Alcohol Injection
        http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual3.html


        >Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty of
        >reading for tonight.
        >
        >Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last bit of
        >water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for those
        >unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw the
        >molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
        >pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can absorb
        >up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to get the
        >pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like activated
        >carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water out.
        >Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-users, we
        >don't have to worry about all that.
        >
        >Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a fuel
        >injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question really had
        >to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually doing it?
        >Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
        >experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even more
        >compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and other
        >benefits.
        >
        >Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding most
        >cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more" required
        >for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that one
        >could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to take
        >advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
        >temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but with the
        >water built right into the fuel!
        >
        >-CX
      • travellerwiz
        Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought about running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that Methanol has a higher
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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          Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought about
          running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that
          Methanol has a higher potential energy then Ethanol and that is why
          it is used in RC fuel and Race car fuel! Do you know if this is true?

          --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
          > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty of
          > reading for tonight.
          >
          > Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last bit
          of
          > water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for those
          > unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw the
          > molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
          > pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can
          absorb
          > up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to get
          the
          > pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like activated
          > carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water
          out.
          > Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-users,
          we
          > don't have to worry about all that.
          >
          > Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a fuel
          > injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question really
          had
          > to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually doing
          it?
          > Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
          > experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even more
          > compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and other
          > benefits.
          >
          > Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding most
          > cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more" required
          > for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that one
          > could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to take
          > advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
          > temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but with
          the
          > water built right into the fuel!
          >
          > -CX
        • c2h5oh_x
          Methanol has a bit of andvantage power-wise because it has more oxygen it it alreay. The side effect being that the jets or injectors need to be even LARGER
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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            Methanol has a bit of andvantage power-wise because it has more
            oxygen it it alreay. The side effect being that the jets or injectors
            need to be even LARGER than with ethanol. That also means that you
            get worse "milage". Methanol is also highly poisonous. It's possible
            to get enough of it through your skin or lungs for it to be a
            problem. You also can't make it yourself.

            So, yeah, for top fuel racing and stuff, Methanol is the fuel of
            choice. But ethanol has only slightly less performance in terms of
            power. You can make it yourself. It's not (too) poisonous. The flow
            rate is lower which means better milage.

            Is that everything?

            BTW, there are a few racers who are using ethanol now.

            -CX

            --- In Distillers@y..., "travellerwiz" <travellerw@u...> wrote:
            > Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought
            about
            > running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that
            > Methanol has a higher potential energy then Ethanol and that is why
            > it is used in RC fuel and Race car fuel! Do you know if this is
            true?
            >
            > --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
            > > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty of
            > > reading for tonight.
            > >
            > > Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last
            bit
            > of
            > > water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for those
            > > unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw the
            > > molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
            > > pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can
            > absorb
            > > up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to get
            > the
            > > pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like
            activated
            > > carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water
            > out.
            > > Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-
            users,
            > we
            > > don't have to worry about all that.
            > >
            > > Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a fuel
            > > injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question really
            > had
            > > to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually doing
            > it?
            > > Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
            > > experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even
            more
            > > compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and
            other
            > > benefits.
            > >
            > > Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding
            most
            > > cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more"
            required
            > > for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that one
            > > could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to take
            > > advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
            > > temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but with
            > the
            > > water built right into the fuel!
            > >
            > > -CX
          • travellerwiz
            Thanks for the info.. Seems to make sense to me.. I have actually heard of people making Methanol at home so they can brew their own RC fuel. So it is
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 4, 2002
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              Thanks for the info.. Seems to make sense to me.. I have actually
              heard of people making Methanol at home so they can brew their own RC
              fuel. So it is possible, but you are right about the poisonous part.

              If you are thinking about converting a RC engine to run on Ethanol
              then let me know. I have some good recipes for RC fuel, you would
              just have to substitute the Methanol for Ethanol. I think it would
              work fine. You may have to increase the amount of Nitro you use as I
              don't think Ethanol will cause a reaction with the glow plug. You
              might try posting the question on.

              http://www.rcwatch.com or http://www.rcuniverse.com

              Those guys have done some pretty weird stuff with RC engines. One of
              them may have experience with this.

              --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
              > Methanol has a bit of andvantage power-wise because it has more
              > oxygen it it alreay. The side effect being that the jets or
              injectors
              > need to be even LARGER than with ethanol. That also means that you
              > get worse "milage". Methanol is also highly poisonous. It's
              possible
              > to get enough of it through your skin or lungs for it to be a
              > problem. You also can't make it yourself.
              >
              > So, yeah, for top fuel racing and stuff, Methanol is the fuel of
              > choice. But ethanol has only slightly less performance in terms of
              > power. You can make it yourself. It's not (too) poisonous. The flow
              > rate is lower which means better milage.
              >
              > Is that everything?
              >
              > BTW, there are a few racers who are using ethanol now.
              >
              > -CX
              >
              > --- In Distillers@y..., "travellerwiz" <travellerw@u...> wrote:
              > > Just a question.... I too fly model airplanes and have thought
              > about
              > > running one of them on Ethanol.. I have always been told that
              > > Methanol has a higher potential energy then Ethanol and that is
              why
              > > it is used in RC fuel and Race car fuel! Do you know if this is
              > true?
              > >
              > > --- In Distillers@y..., "c2h5oh_x" <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
              > > > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I had plenty
              of
              > > > reading for tonight.
              > > >
              > > > Molecular Sieve is definitely the easiest way to get that last
              > bit
              > > of
              > > > water out of regularly distilled ethanol. The process, for
              those
              > > > unfamiliar with it, is similar to carbon treating. Just throw
              the
              > > > molecular sieve material, which is in the form of small 3-5mm
              > > > pellets, into the ethanol and let it soak. Molecular Sieve can
              > > absorb
              > > > up to about 20% of its weight in water. Strain the ethanol to
              get
              > > the
              > > > pellets out. The Molecular Sieve can be reused just like
              > activated
              > > > carbon. Place the Sieve material in the oven to drive the water
              > > out.
              > > > Very low tech. The high tech is in the material, but as end-
              > users,
              > > we
              > > > don't have to worry about all that.
              > > >
              > > > Regarding ethanol as motor fuel, I'm sure that converting a
              fuel
              > > > injected car would be pretty straight forward. My question
              really
              > > had
              > > > to do with experience. Is there anyone here who is actually
              doing
              > > it?
              > > > Running a car on ethanol? I want more anecdotal input on the
              > > > experience. The performance potential of ethanol fuel is even
              > more
              > > > compelling to me then the already compelling renewability and
              > other
              > > > benefits.
              > > >
              > > > Oversized injectors and pumps are quite common for hot-rodding
              > most
              > > > cars. Getting the fuel flow up to the "20-30 percent more"
              > required
              > > > for ethanol should be a simple matter. It occurred to me that
              one
              > > > could also turbo or supercharge an ethanol converted car to
              take
              > > > advantage of ethanol's higher octane and lower combustion
              > > > temperatures. Running 180 proof is like water injection, but
              with
              > > the
              > > > water built right into the fuel!
              > > >
              > > > -CX
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