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Re: my new air stripping still works! - this thread is the champion!

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  • peter_vcb
    Hi Alex you say I noticed that sometimes people are get carried away with such details and most minute variations that it is difficult to look back and see
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 27, 2002
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      Hi Alex
      you say "I noticed that sometimes people are get carried away with
      such details and most minute variations that it is difficult to look
      back and see initial goals."

      examining the finer details like air flow, temperature variations,
      wash strength etc, will give empirical data as to how the still runs
      and what the most important factors are, hence we can better
      understand the design and improve it. i was thinking of sending
      private posts to abbac/rkr (what is your name?) about the subject but
      i thought others may like to see how things are going, people can
      just skip by if uninterested. BTW my initial/ultimate goal is to
      produce a high quality spirit cheaply, efficiently, and safely using
      a cheap still.

      "I must admit that at certain conditions it does apply – like in a
      prison cell where heating is out of question."
      or in somebodys bedroom who can come home to a litre of spirit every
      day with very little effort. Gert Strands still will require no
      supervision which at the moment is essential for our stills. i have
      to dedicate the best part of a day for my proper distillation runs, i
      enjoy it but can rarely find time.


      "It appears that the output volumes of such system will not even come
      close to any real levels to use this method for a satisfactory output
      unless someone likes to drink sour stew."
      1 litre a day at 40% is more than enough for me, this is what Gerts
      still claims to produce. abba's still has a low output but could be
      scaled up, it is only a experiment at the moment. the output is far
      from a sour stew, mine tasted ok and cleaned up perfectly with
      charcoal. Gert's new turbo pure yeast actively reduces off tastes and
      cogeners as it brews. when brewed with this yeast the output from his
      still is meant to taste like carbon treated spirit. the low
      temperatures prevent fusels getting into the distillate, the new
      yeast minimises "foreshots". the low temperatures do not affect the
      complex flavours of a brew so you can get a nice tasting schnapps or
      brandy.


      "Now I wonder why people discuss things which are not even close to
      practicality."
      i love theoretical discussions, especially when they lead to useful
      new ideas which are practical. how do any new inventions get
      discovered and developed?

      "How an air stripping still can even come close to a still producing
      90%-95% alcohol in a few hours?"
      i spend about 8 hours in total to get about 6-7 litres of 95%
      alcohol. with Gerts new still he gets 3 litres in 3 days BUT his
      actual work time is much less than 8 hours since no supervision is
      needed. i would think he spends less actual work time per bottle than
      i do.

      "And who would want to have 20% product from 14% wash?"
      many dilute from 95% down to 20% for liquers anyway. purity is more
      important than strength to most people. i would be glad if my 18%
      wash actually was reduced to 15% if it tasted ok! Gerts still
      produces alcohol at 35-40%

      "Who would want to have to wait days and weeks to collect meager 4
      liters of sour tasting wash barely qualified to call a drinkable
      substance compared to alcohol?"
      why do you presume it is going to be awful? i dont mind waiting weeks
      for it to brew, i dont mind months waiting for the carbon to do its
      work, so i will certainly wait for it to distill slowly. think of it
      as brewing i.e. requiring very little attention over this time. do
      you hate waiting so long for washes to ferment?

      i have cider maturing at the moment that i hope to distill at a low
      temperature to see what it tastes like. Gert described my air
      stripping still as "highly advanced" compared to his so i cant wait
      to see how simple his is. the other advantage is in producing a clear
      wash at a high strength with no need for finings which you can then
      put in your still, your still will need less cleaning because of
      this. i have some of Gerts new turbo pure yeast which i will start
      tonight, i'll post the results of its quality.

      Cheers

      Peter-











      -- In Distillers@y..., BOKAKOB <bokakob@y...> wrote:
      >
      > I eagerly read posts and enjoy some of them, especially those where
      I can learn something new. It happens that this group of people
      dedicated their inquisitive abilities to separate alcohol, more or
      less pure, from a variety of substances. Though theoretical aspects
      are very interesting, I noticed that sometimes people are get carried
      away with such details and most minute variations that it is
      difficult to look back and see initial goals.
      >
      > For example, just recently an interesting topic was discussed
      dealing with phenomena of alcohol evaporating at lesser temperatures
      than boiling point. It is an interesting notion and I must admit that
      at certain conditions it does apply – like in a prison cell where
      heating is out of question. It appears that the output volumes of
      such system will not even come close to any real levels to use this
      method for a satisfactory output unless someone likes to drink sour
      stew. Now I would remember this curiosity and move on because it will
      not put me any closer to my final target – making quality alcohol in
      acceptable quantities.
      >
      > Same thing happens with other threads. I remember a thread
      discussing alcohol contamination with minute quantities impurities
      present in metals, plastics and other materials from which we make
      our stills. Luckily it was ended with a message that more
      contaminants are getting in our systems from a regular carpet
      cleaning.
      >
      > So it appears that there is asymptotic limit of effectiveness what
      everyone should realize. In this particular group it should be
      everything about alcohol (technically and by definition of this group
      it actually can be any other substance officially derived by the way
      of distillation :-)
      >
      > Now I wonder why people discuss things which are not even close to
      practicality. How an air stripping still can even come close to a
      still producing 90%-95% alcohol in a few hours? Isn't it enough of
      curious marvels? And who would want to have 20% product from 14%
      wash? Who would want to have to wait days and weeks to collect meager
      4 liters of sour tasting wash barely qualified to call a drinkable
      substance compared to alcohol? I would compare it to a discussion of
      applying pedaling powered vehicles to haul containers on our
      highways. Theoretically it is possible in practical ways – gim'me a
      break!
      >
      > Please be considerate in my cumbersome ways of expressing thoughts…
      >
      >
      > I can be wrong I must say.
      > Cheers, Alex...
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
    • BOKAKOB
      Thank you for explanations. Time will show. I can be wrong I must say. Cheers, Alex... ... Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 27, 2002
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        Thank you for explanations. Time will show.



        I can be wrong I must say.
        Cheers, Alex...



        Do you Yahoo!?
        New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
      • abbababbaccc
        ... runs ... but ... using ... Real name is Riku, but I d like to keep some anonymity since home distillation is illegal in my country. abbababbaccc is just a
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 27, 2002
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          --- In Distillers@y..., "peter_vcb" <viciousblackout@y...> wrote:

          > examining the finer details like air flow, temperature variations,
          > wash strength etc, will give empirical data as to how the still
          runs
          > and what the most important factors are, hence we can better
          > understand the design and improve it. i was thinking of sending
          > private posts to abbac/rkr (what is your name?) about the subject
          but
          > i thought others may like to see how things are going, people can
          > just skip by if uninterested. BTW my initial/ultimate goal is to
          > produce a high quality spirit cheaply, efficiently, and safely
          using
          > a cheap still.
          >

          Real name is Riku, but I'd like to keep some anonymity since home
          distillation is illegal in my country. abbababbaccc is just a
          desperate attempt to find available username at yahoo (it also gets
          you 33% average on multiple choice tests). I wholeheartedly agree in
          that we need discussion. New ideas often emerge when we look at
          things from different perspective.

          >
          > "It appears that the output volumes of such system will not even
          come
          > close to any real levels to use this method for a satisfactory
          output
          > unless someone likes to drink sour stew."
          > 1 litre a day at 40% is more than enough for me, this is what Gerts
          > still claims to produce. abba's still has a low output but could be
          > scaled up, it is only a experiment at the moment. the output is far
          > from a sour stew, mine tasted ok and cleaned up perfectly with

          That is correct, if my results were directly upscalable (they
          propably aren't) I'd get over 3 liters during first 24 hours at a
          strength of 30%. Also the taste was much better than the really dry
          wine I used for mash.

          > "How an air stripping still can even come close to a still
          producing
          > 90%-95% alcohol in a few hours?"
          > i spend about 8 hours in total to get about 6-7 litres of 95%
          > alcohol. with Gerts new still he gets 3 litres in 3 days BUT his
          > actual work time is much less than 8 hours since no supervision is
          > needed. i would think he spends less actual work time per bottle
          than
          > i do.
          >

          It takes 5 minutes to set up my experiment, and a couple of days to
          wait for results. In my case having enough time is a problem (wife,
          kids, work etc.) so I try to make things as easy as possible. If I
          were to upscale my system it wouldn't take any longer to get going.

          >
          > i have cider maturing at the moment that i hope to distill at a low
          > temperature to see what it tastes like. Gert described my air
          > stripping still as "highly advanced" compared to his so i cant wait
          > to see how simple his is. the other advantage is in producing a
          clear

          So you've been talking to Gert? After I did the math (see separate
          post) I wasn't that impressed of the performance of his system. The
          basic idea of having continuous stripper that requires no attention
          is really tempting though. I have an almost finished malt mash, maybe
          I should sacrifice one of my fermentation buckets after all. On the
          other hand, I could use some whiskey for next weekend as well...

          Greetz, riku
        • peter_vcb
          Hi Riku i think if your exposed surface area is increased you will get an almost identical increase in output. area is the main governing factor in your still
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 28, 2002
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            Hi Riku
            i think if your exposed surface area is increased you will get an
            almost identical increase in output. area is the main governing
            factor in your still (all else bring the same) where kW power is the
            governing factor in a pot still. Gert wont give away the secrets to
            his still until christmas. i have had a few emails from him. he is
            very interested in the quality of distillate from my still and sent
            me his new yeast over for me to test in it. he sent a few emails with
            more clues and his still sounded like a still from Tonys site
            about "stills that are not stills". i sent him a link to Tony's site
            and he said he had tried those methods before but they were no good.
            he says it is so simple you will laugh and ask why you didnt think of
            it before. i am still thinking it could be a small heated bucket with
            wash within a large bucket. a cloth is draped into the wash on a mini
            clothes line so it draws the wash up it by capillary action. a small
            hand fan is placed inside the large bucket which increases
            evaporation off the cloth just like a clothes line. but this is
            pretty much as "advanced" as my still.
            will my cider endure the long wait till christmas? i'm getting
            thirsty ;)


            --- In Distillers@y..., "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@y...> wrote:
            > --- In Distillers@y..., "peter_vcb" <viciousblackout@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > examining the finer details like air flow, temperature
            variations,
            > > wash strength etc, will give empirical data as to how the still
            > runs
            > > and what the most important factors are, hence we can better
            > > understand the design and improve it. i was thinking of sending
            > > private posts to abbac/rkr (what is your name?) about the subject
            > but
            > > i thought others may like to see how things are going, people can
            > > just skip by if uninterested. BTW my initial/ultimate goal is to
            > > produce a high quality spirit cheaply, efficiently, and safely
            > using
            > > a cheap still.
            > >
            >
            > Real name is Riku, but I'd like to keep some anonymity since home
            > distillation is illegal in my country. abbababbaccc is just a
            > desperate attempt to find available username at yahoo (it also gets
            > you 33% average on multiple choice tests). I wholeheartedly agree
            in
            > that we need discussion. New ideas often emerge when we look at
            > things from different perspective.
            >
            > >
            > > "It appears that the output volumes of such system will not even
            > come
            > > close to any real levels to use this method for a satisfactory
            > output
            > > unless someone likes to drink sour stew."
            > > 1 litre a day at 40% is more than enough for me, this is what
            Gerts
            > > still claims to produce. abba's still has a low output but could
            be
            > > scaled up, it is only a experiment at the moment. the output is
            far
            > > from a sour stew, mine tasted ok and cleaned up perfectly with
            >
            > That is correct, if my results were directly upscalable (they
            > propably aren't) I'd get over 3 liters during first 24 hours at a
            > strength of 30%. Also the taste was much better than the really dry
            > wine I used for mash.
            >
            > > "How an air stripping still can even come close to a still
            > producing
            > > 90%-95% alcohol in a few hours?"
            > > i spend about 8 hours in total to get about 6-7 litres of 95%
            > > alcohol. with Gerts new still he gets 3 litres in 3 days BUT his
            > > actual work time is much less than 8 hours since no supervision
            is
            > > needed. i would think he spends less actual work time per bottle
            > than
            > > i do.
            > >
            >
            > It takes 5 minutes to set up my experiment, and a couple of days to
            > wait for results. In my case having enough time is a problem (wife,
            > kids, work etc.) so I try to make things as easy as possible. If I
            > were to upscale my system it wouldn't take any longer to get going.
            >
            > >
            > > i have cider maturing at the moment that i hope to distill at a
            low
            > > temperature to see what it tastes like. Gert described my air
            > > stripping still as "highly advanced" compared to his so i cant
            wait
            > > to see how simple his is. the other advantage is in producing a
            > clear
            >
            > So you've been talking to Gert? After I did the math (see separate
            > post) I wasn't that impressed of the performance of his system. The
            > basic idea of having continuous stripper that requires no attention
            > is really tempting though. I have an almost finished malt mash,
            maybe
            > I should sacrifice one of my fermentation buckets after all. On the
            > other hand, I could use some whiskey for next weekend as well...
            >
            > Greetz, riku
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