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RE: [Distillers] Re: reflux column to get rid of whiskey/brandy f oreshots

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  • Bennett, Mark E [TES]
    I have tried both and would definitely leave the packing in as it give far greater control over your product. A well insulated packed column with no reflux
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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      I have tried both and would definitely leave the packing in as it give far
      greater control over your product. A well insulated packed column with no
      reflux behaves pretty much the same as a pot still (my opinion). The good
      bit with the column is that you can use it to simulate varying lengths and
      angles on a lyne arm of a pot still just by varying the reflux.

      I originally used the method suggested by Ian Smiley but have found that by
      taking the body at 75 - 80% ASBV I end up with a flavour profile more to my
      liking. I personally find this method easier than mixing the body with some
      of the tails and heads.


      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: abbababbaccc [SMTP:abbababbaccc@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, 31 October 2002 09:43
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: reflux column to get rid of whiskey/brandy
      > foreshots
      >
      > You can use reflux column for the whole run. The whole process and
      > cut points are thoroughly explained at Ian Smileys book at
      > http://www.magma.ca/~smiley/main.htm I tried it and it works pretty
      > well. Much easier than multiple distillations with pot still. I
      > currently have my third all malt batch fermenting if that tell's you
      > anything about my enthusiasm.
      >
      > Greetz, rkr
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@y..., "peter_vcb" <viciousblackout@y...> wrote:
      > > instead of ditching lots of distillate at the start of a whiskey
      > run
      > > does anybody use a reflux column to get rid of the bad stuff. i
      > have
      > > some cider brewing now to about 10%. could i add the pack the
      > column,
      > > get rid of the bad stuff, then remove the packing and do the main
      > run?
      > >
      > > how much of my 25l cider will i have to ditch at the start if i use
      > a
      > > reflux column, i hear apples produce lots of methanol. it is a CWE
      > > cider kit
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
      > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      >
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      >
    • matthewo_brien
      Hi, I also have played with the idea of using a reflux column to get rid of the foreshots, and then pot stilling the rest. I drew up the design for a hybrid
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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        Hi,

        I also have played with the idea of using a reflux column to get rid
        of the foreshots, and then pot stilling the rest. I drew up the
        design for a hybrid still a while back:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/mattdistiller/potstilld
        esign.jpg

        The idea was with the valve to the pot still closed, and the valve to
        the NS column open, the foreshots/heads would be collected. Then the
        still turned of, and left for 30 mins or so. Then the pot still
        valve opened, and the reflux column valve shut, and the rest of the
        run collected with the pot still.

        I haven't got around to building it yet - I have all the bits, and I
        plan to, but work is *really* busy, so the project has been shelved
        for the time being.

        I have used my NS column to do rum, citrus and brandy washes, and all
        worked very well. The only reason I want to build my hybrid still
        is.... well, because I can!

        Matt
      • Aaron Pelly
        Matt, I m thinking of something similar - but only to get the tails out as quickly as possible. My idea was the same as yours, but no valve at the bottom of
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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          Matt, I'm thinking of something similar - but only to get the tails out as
          quickly as possible. My idea was the same as yours, but no valve at the
          bottom of the reflux column - I figured that the vapour would follow the
          path of least resistance and just pour out the lyne arm. I don't think
          there'd even be a requirement to pause the process, as whatever is in the
          reflux column will fall out quickly after opening the lyne valve anyway.

          I recon this second opening would be a good way to get stuff into the still
          during a run too. I don't know the name for it, but I remember from high
          school chemistry a device that looked like a funnel with a tap on the bottom
          of it. Using this idea you can prime the funnel, then open the valve slowly.
          Nothing should come out of the boiler.

          Speaking of high school chemistry; does anyone know a New Zealand/Australia
          lab supplier that doesn't need blood with every purchase? I called Biolab
          yesterday looking for a stand and clamp. Get this: Clamp $51.70, Bosshead
          $26.00, Stand $60.30. A hundred and forty bucks for a stand? You must be
          craaazy!

          Aaron

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: matthewo_brien [mailto:mobrien@...]
          > Sent: 01 November 2002 11:53
          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Distillers] Re: reflux column to get rid of whiskey/brandy f
          > oreshots
          >
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I also have played with the idea of using a reflux column to get rid
          > of the foreshots, and then pot stilling the rest. I drew up the
          > design for a hybrid still a while back:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/mattdistiller/potstilld
          > esign.jpg
          >
          > The idea was with the valve to the pot still closed, and the valve to
          > the NS column open, the foreshots/heads would be collected. Then the
          > still turned of, and left for 30 mins or so. Then the pot still
          > valve opened, and the reflux column valve shut, and the rest of the
          > run collected with the pot still.
          >
          > I haven't got around to building it yet - I have all the bits, and I
          > plan to, but work is *really* busy, so the project has been shelved
          > for the time being.
          >
          > I have used my NS column to do rum, citrus and brandy washes, and all
          > worked very well. The only reason I want to build my hybrid still
          > is.... well, because I can!
          >
          > Matt
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • George
          Why have the thumber in between the gatevalve at the bottom of the reflux and the condenser. Why not just connect the condenser directly to the bottom of the
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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            Why have the thumber in between the gatevalve at the bottom of the reflux and the condenser.  Why not just connect the condenser directly to the bottom of the reflux  column to the lower gatevalve?

            George


            matthewo_brien wrote:
            Hi,

            I also have played with the idea of using a reflux column to get rid
            of the foreshots, and then pot stilling the rest.  I drew up the
            design for a hybrid still a while back:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/mattdistiller/potstilld
            esign.jpg

            The idea was with the valve to the pot still closed, and the valve to
            the NS column open, the foreshots/heads would be collected.  Then the
            still turned of, and left for 30 mins or so.  Then the pot still
            valve opened, and the reflux column valve shut, and the rest of the
            run collected with the pot still.

            I haven't got around to building it yet - I have all the bits, and I
            plan to, but work is *really* busy, so the project has been shelved
            for the time being.

            I have used my NS column to do rum, citrus and brandy washes, and all
            worked very well.  The only reason I want to build my hybrid still
            is.... well, because I can!

            Matt





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          • CornFed (Randy)
            Hi Aaron. ... out as quickly as possible. My idea was the same as yours, but no valve at the bottom of the reflux column - I figured that the vapour would
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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              Hi Aaron.

              --- In Distillers@y..., "Aaron Pelly" <apelly@m...> wrote:
              > Matt, I'm thinking of something similar - but only to get the tails
              out as > quickly as possible. My idea was the same as yours, but no
              valve at the > bottom of the reflux column - I figured that the
              vapour would follow the > path of least resistance and just pour out
              the lyne arm. I don't think > there'd even be a requirement to pause
              the process, as whatever is in the > reflux column will fall out
              quickly after opening the lyne valve anyway.
              >

              I am remembering the discussion of the first design for a pot
              still /reflux column combination: We theorized that while the
              packed section was removing the foreshots, the rest of the section
              would be stacked up with vapor of higher density. You would have
              to shut off the vapor flow valve to the packed section and then allow
              it to cool and immediately open the valve to the pot still section.

              When the packed section had cooled, you would briefly open the reflux
              section valve again to drain the section into the pot.

              Having valves installed where it is possible to close off the boiler
              section is dangerous if the valves get lined up wrong. The devices
              we are building and operating are not intended to be pressure
              devices.

              > I recon this second opening would be a good way to get stuff into
              the still
              > during a run too. I don't know the name for it, but I remember from
              high
              > school chemistry a device that looked like a funnel with a tap on
              the bottom
              > of it. Using this idea you can prime the funnel, then open the
              valve slowly.

              http://www.indigo.com/glass/gphglass/separatory-funnel.html


              > Nothing should come out of the boiler.
              >

              I think you have the beginnings of a great idea. I wish you good
              luck.


              > Speaking of high school chemistry; does anyone know a New
              Zealand/Australia
              > lab supplier that doesn't need blood with every purchase? I called
              Biolab
              > yesterday looking for a stand and clamp. Get this: Clamp $51.70,
              Bosshead
              > $26.00, Stand $60.30. A hundred and forty bucks for a stand? You
              must be
              > craaazy!

              http://www.indigo.com

              this isnt a New Zealand company, but they are more than reasonable
              with their prices. Send then a email note and see what they can
              arrange. I have nothing but good things to say about their business
              practices and speed of delivery and quality of merchandise. They
              pride then selves on their 'discretion' as per their front page
              ststement.

              http://www.indigo.com/science-supplies/laboratory-equipment.html
              all of thise things you listed are available here. Stand 20
              dollars ....
              >
              > Aaron

              Randy
            • Aaron Pelly
              Don t ask me why, but I put a small drop of spit in a bit of ethyl acetate that I d saved. An interesting thing happened. The spit sank, kind of turned up at
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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                Don't ask me why, but I put a small drop of spit in a bit of ethyl acetate
                that I'd saved. An interesting thing happened. The spit sank, kind of turned
                up at the edges like when you spit on dirt, and went white like cooked egg
                white. After a few days it's still a solid on the bottom.

                Also oddly, the smell of acetone is disappearing.

                What's going on?

                Aaron.
              • Gramps
                G day Aaron,may I suggest you try www.winerysupplies.com.au ,this is a Melbourne based company that is set up for the smaller wine makers and is happy to deal
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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                  G'day Aaron,may I suggest you try "www.winerysupplies.com.au",this is a
                  Melbourne based company that is set up for the smaller wine makers and is
                  happy to deal with us amateur's.If you have any troubles contact me direct
                  and I will help in any way possible,Regards,Ken.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Aaron Pelly" <apelly@...>
                  To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:43 AM
                  Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: reflux column to get rid of whiskey/brandy f
                  oreshots


                  > Matt, I'm thinking of something similar - but only to get the tails out as
                  > quickly as possible. My idea was the same as yours, but no valve at the
                  > bottom of the reflux column - I figured that the vapour would follow the
                  > path of least resistance and just pour out the lyne arm. I don't think
                  > there'd even be a requirement to pause the process, as whatever is in the
                  > reflux column will fall out quickly after opening the lyne valve anyway.
                  >
                  > I recon this second opening would be a good way to get stuff into the
                  still
                  > during a run too. I don't know the name for it, but I remember from high
                  > school chemistry a device that looked like a funnel with a tap on the
                  bottom
                  > of it. Using this idea you can prime the funnel, then open the valve
                  slowly.
                  > Nothing should come out of the boiler.
                  >
                  > Speaking of high school chemistry; does anyone know a New
                  Zealand/Australia
                  > lab supplier that doesn't need blood with every purchase? I called Biolab
                  > yesterday looking for a stand and clamp. Get this: Clamp $51.70, Bosshead
                  > $26.00, Stand $60.30. A hundred and forty bucks for a stand? You must be
                  > craaazy!
                  >
                  > Aaron
                  >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: matthewo_brien [mailto:mobrien@...]
                  > > Sent: 01 November 2002 11:53
                  > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: reflux column to get rid of whiskey/brandy f
                  > > oreshots
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi,
                  > >
                  > > I also have played with the idea of using a reflux column to get rid
                  > > of the foreshots, and then pot stilling the rest. I drew up the
                  > > design for a hybrid still a while back:
                  > >
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/mattdistiller/potstilld
                  > > esign.jpg
                  > >
                  > > The idea was with the valve to the pot still closed, and the valve to
                  > > the NS column open, the foreshots/heads would be collected. Then the
                  > > still turned of, and left for 30 mins or so. Then the pot still
                  > > valve opened, and the reflux column valve shut, and the rest of the
                  > > run collected with the pot still.
                  > >
                  > > I haven't got around to building it yet - I have all the bits, and I
                  > > plan to, but work is *really* busy, so the project has been shelved
                  > > for the time being.
                  > >
                  > > I have used my NS column to do rum, citrus and brandy washes, and all
                  > > worked very well. The only reason I want to build my hybrid still
                  > > is.... well, because I can!
                  > >
                  > > Matt
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > ---------------------~-->
                  > > Looking for a more powerful website? Try GeoCities for $8.95
                  > > per month.
                  > > Register your domain name (http://your-name.com). More
                  > > storage! No ads!
                  > > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info
                  > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/auyVXB/KJoEAA/jd3IAA/e8NolB/TM
                  > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > -------~->
                  > >
                  > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                  > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                  distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • BOKAKOB
                  Aaron, there is a good and a bad news in this message. Hoping for optimistic side to win the good message is that you are inquisitive and inventing. You have
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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                    Aaron , there is a good and a bad news in this message. Hoping for optimistic side to win the good message is that you are inquisitive and inventing. You have true scientific mind and systematic approach. Now we are going for the bad news.

                    Aaron , you are in a serious distress. Spitting is not a good deed to do. Spitting in ethyl acetate is blasphemy! Regardless of your attitude toward unworthy substance we must maintain a humble presence in this world. On the other hand have you seen your doctor lately?

                     

                    This meant to be a joke. Please have a smile or at least a grin. However this �cooked� spit stuff worries me. What percentile distillate concentration are you getting from your still?

                     

                     Cheer , Alex �

                     Aaron Pelly <apelly@...> wrote:

                    Don't ask me why, but I put a small drop of spit in a bit of ethyl acetate
                    that I'd saved. An interesting thing happened. The spit sank, kind of turned
                    up at the edges like when you spit on dirt, and went white like cooked egg
                    white. After a few days it's still a solid on the bottom.

                    Also oddly, the smell of acetone is disappearing.

                    What's going on?

                    Aaron



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