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Thumper/Slobber Theory

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  • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
    Thanks to Warren, David, Deb and Jessie Duke I think I ve finally got this Thumper / slobber business worked out, using the Ethanol-Water equilibrium graph
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1 6:49 PM
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      Thanks to Warren, David, Deb and "Jessie Duke" I think I've finally got this
      Thumper / slobber business worked out, using the Ethanol-Water equilibrium
      graph (as shown at http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/theory.htm ) as a
      basis.

      Does this sound feasible ?

      * Say initial mash is a 10% brew. The vapour coming off is around 93
      C and 55% purity. This passes into the thumper keg, and bubbles into a
      small amount of cold water in the bottom of it. Initially the water will
      absorb much of the alcohol in the vapour, and possibly also much of the
      water present too, depending how much contact there is between the steam &
      water.

      * The liquid in the thumper begins heating up, and also increasing in
      % alcohol.
      * After some time period, the two will approach equilibrium - say
      (absolute guess) 40% alcohol & 84 C.

      * Beyond this point, any additional heat coming into the thumper will
      be causing alcohol vapour to come out of the liquid, but this is now at 80+
      % (eg the 170-190 proof that Deb is getting) because it is effectively
      coming off a thumper wash which is at 40%. Thus a second distillation
      occurs in the thumper.


      Where i was wrong before in my thinking .... I couldn't see how there was
      enough heat coming in, to cause the thumper to do the second distillation.
      But ... the incoming steam is still at 93 C, whereas the outgoing vapour
      only needs to be at 84 C - so it can cool a little, and still be hot enought
      to work. In addition, the incoming steam is a greater flowrate than the
      outgoing vapour (because of the change in alcohol concentration), so again,
      it will have surplus energy.

      The incoming steam won't simply just bubble through the liquid and keep on
      going (at a low % purity), because of the cooling due to heat losses from
      the thumper area. This would then become a control on how pure the final
      distillate is - a cooler thumper would give a higher purity final
      distillate, provided it didn't too cold (eg stuck below 78 C) and stop
      working. This is also why you wouldn't heat the thumper - if you did this,
      all you'd get would be very low purity distillate (as per the temperature on
      the graph).

      The thumper will slowly be filling with liquid (mostly water, but saturated
      with alcohol); thus the need to have either an overflow (as described by
      Warren) or enough capacity. This liquid will be high in %alcohol, so don't
      toss it, but return to the still at some point.

      Gees - took me while to get there, didn't it. Thanks for all your patience
      during this,

      Tony
    • Deb
      Close :) You fill the thumper about 1/3 full (this would vary with your setup) of your first runnings (lower alcohol content but still around 100 proof give
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1 7:48 PM
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        Close :)  You fill the thumper about 1/3 full (this would vary with your setup) of your first runnings (lower alcohol content but still around 100 proof give or take).  If we don't have any of that we'll use some of our mash.  This also helps to increase the final proof.  Never return whats in your thumper to your pot cuz some of the impurities are caught inside that liquid.  We generally throw out thumper water after each run.  In actuality, your thumper does not fill with liquid tho--there have been occasions when we have had to add to ours during a run to keep it "thumping".  Guess that would also depend on your setup.  Our thumper does not sit above the pot but next to it and lower than the top of the pot (wish I had a digital camera :)  The vapor is forced up from the pot and then down into the thumper liquid.  When it gets hot enough to vaporize, the steam rises and goes out the top of the thumper into the condenser.  Sorry if I totally lost ya'll about here.
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS) [mailto:Tony.Ackland@...]
        Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 9:49 PM
        To: Distillers@egroups.com
        Subject: [Distillers] Thumper/Slobber Theory

        Thanks to Warren, David, Deb and "Jessie Duke" I think I've finally got this
        Thumper / slobber business worked out, using the Ethanol-Water equilibrium
        graph (as shown at http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/theory.htm ) as a
        basis.

        Does this sound feasible ?

        *      Say initial mash is a 10% brew.  The vapour coming off is around 93
        C and 55% purity.  This passes into the thumper keg, and bubbles into a
        small amount of cold water in the bottom of it.  Initially the water will
        absorb much of the alcohol in the vapour, and possibly also much of the
        water present too, depending how much contact there is between the steam &
        water.

        *      The liquid in the thumper begins heating up, and also increasing in
        % alcohol. 
        *      After some time period, the two will approach equilibrium - say
        (absolute guess) 40% alcohol & 84 C. 

        *      Beyond this point, any additional heat coming into the thumper will
        be causing alcohol vapour to come out of the liquid, but this is now at 80+
        % (eg the 170-190 proof that Deb is getting) because it is effectively
        coming off a thumper wash which is at 40%.  Thus a second distillation
        occurs in the thumper.


        Where i was wrong before in my thinking ....  I couldn't see how there was
        enough heat coming in, to cause the thumper to do the second distillation.
        But ... the incoming steam is still at 93 C, whereas the outgoing vapour
        only needs to be at 84 C - so it can cool a little, and still be hot enought
        to work.  In addition, the incoming steam is a greater flowrate than the
        outgoing vapour (because of the change in alcohol concentration), so again,
        it will have surplus energy. 

        The incoming steam won't simply just bubble through the liquid and keep on
        going (at a low % purity), because of the cooling due to heat losses from
        the thumper area. This would then become a control on how pure the final
        distillate is - a cooler thumper would give a higher purity final
        distillate, provided it didn't too cold (eg stuck below 78 C) and stop
        working.  This is also why you wouldn't heat the thumper - if you did this,
        all you'd get would be very low purity distillate (as per the temperature on
        the graph).

        The thumper will slowly be filling with liquid (mostly water, but saturated
        with alcohol); thus the need to have either an overflow (as described by
        Warren)  or enough capacity.  This liquid will be high in %alcohol, so don't
        toss it, but return to the still at some point.

        Gees - took me while to get there, didn't it.  Thanks for all your patience
        during this,

        Tony



      • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
        thanks Deb, ... whew !! ... how much does it hold ? Tony
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1 7:54 PM
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          thanks Deb,

          > Close :)
          whew !!

          > You fill the thumper about 1/3 full
          how much does it hold ?

          Tony
        • Deb
          How full you fill it depends on the length of your copper pipes going in and out of the thumper. If its too full it either takes too long to heat (or can not
          Message 4 of 5 , May 1 8:05 PM
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            How full you fill it depends on the length of your copper pipes going in and out of the thumper.  If its too full it either takes too long to heat (or can not possibly be heated by the vapor coming into it) or your thumper liquid is forced into your condenser. 
             

            Deb Brewer

            witchwriter@...

            ICQ #13688671

             

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            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS) [mailto:Tony.Ackland@...]
            Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 10:54 PM
            To: Distillers@egroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Distillers] Thumper/Slobber Theory


            thanks Deb,

            >  Close :)  
            whew !! 

            > You fill
            the thumper about 1/3 full 
            how much does it hold ?

            Tony



          • Deb
            Our pot is 5 gallons and we cook about 2 1/2 gallons of mash. The thumper is about 1 gallon and we add about a quart of liquid to it. Yield is 2-3 quarts of
            Message 5 of 5 , May 1 8:10 PM
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              Our pot is 5 gallons and we cook about 2 1/2 gallons of mash.  The thumper is about 1 gallon and we add about a quart of liquid to it.  Yield is 2-3 quarts of 170-190 proof product.  Not sure how good this is but I think we're doing alright considering the method :)
               
              Deb :)
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS) [mailto:Tony.Ackland@...]
              Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 10:54 PM
              To: Distillers@egroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Distillers] Thumper/Slobber Theory


              thanks Deb,

              >  Close :)  
              whew !! 

              > You fill
              the thumper about 1/3 full 
              how much does it hold ?

              Tony



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