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The Home Distillers Workbook

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  • kekedog13
    Dear Jeff King, I just finished reading your book. It was very informative. I have a question. In several of the recipes it calls for a cup of malt. Does this
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 13, 2014
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      Dear Jeff King, I just finished reading your book. It was very informative. I have a question. In several of the recipes it calls for a cup of malt. Does this mean a cup of malted grain, or dry malt extract, or malt syrup ?

    • RLB
      That is a question more suited for New Distillers Group, but it s most likely extract.  Dry malt would be 1 lbs. of barley malt for every 5 lbs of corn.  I
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 13, 2014
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        That is a question more suited for New Distillers Group, but it's most likely extract.  Dry malt would be 1 lbs. of barley malt for every 5 lbs of corn.  I have seen some recipes call for 1 lb of barley malt for 6  to 7 lbs corn, but you need to add enough malt to convert all starches into sugar.  Without testing malt for quality, it's really a crap shoot as to how much you actually need.  It's better to use too much malt than not enough.

        If malt is corn or any other grain, I would suggest equal amounts of malted verses grain.  Example: 5 lbs. of corn malt is equal to 1 lb of barley malt, so in a 5 gal batch you would use 5 lbs of corn malt and 5 lbs. of corn.  Malted corn is corn, so you can cut back on corn as you increase malted corn. 

        Robert
        RB Distillation Co.
        Malt Department
        PO Box 217
        Kanona, NY  14856
        607-542-3043


        From: "kekedog13@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 7:11 PM
        Subject: [Distillers] The Home Distillers Workbook

         
        Dear Jeff King, I just finished reading your book. It was very informative. I have a question. In several of the recipes it calls for a cup of malt. Does this mean a cup of malted grain, or dry malt extract, or malt syrup ?


      • djross@xtra.co.nz
        Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 13, 2014
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          Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt as noted in the actual question. You don't actually answer the question, just create confusion.
          The short answer is dried malt or liquid malt would both be suitable as an alternative to mashing ( plus crushed malt if mashing) in order to get immediately available sugars for fermentation, or to provide starch converting enzymes for more efficient conversion.
        • Steve Lange
          Thanks for that response djross....I sometimes will not ask questions to avoid that type of answer you just talked about
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 13, 2014
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            Thanks for that response djross....I sometimes will not ask questions to avoid that type of answer you just talked about
          • doug.hood
            Hello Steve, If you would like to try something new, specifically a helpful response, try the nanodistiller.org. JCGuppy and friends do it right. Look me up
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 13, 2014
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              Hello Steve,
              If you would like to try something new, specifically a helpful response, try the nanodistiller.org. JCGuppy and friends do it right. 
              Look me up there, I'll be happy to help too. 
              Doug 
            • RLB
              He did not provide a formula, so it was a good educated guess that it was extract because 1 cup of dry or crushed malt is not sufficient to convert a 5 gal
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 13, 2014
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                He did not provide a formula, so it was a good educated guess that it was extract because 1 cup of dry or crushed malt is not sufficient to convert a 5 gal batch of 10 lbs. corn.  Actually 1 cup of extract is overkill for a 5 gal batch.  Every way that I know how to make malt syrup will denature the enzymes.  In the end that leaves extract unless it is a smaller than 5 gal batch.

                Robert



                From: "djross@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:49 PM
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                 
                Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt as noted in the actual question. You don't actually answer the question, just create confusion.
                The short answer is dried malt or liquid malt would both be suitable as an alternative to mashing ( plus crushed malt if mashing) in order to get immediately available sugars for fermentation, or to provide starch converting enzymes for more efficient conversion.


              • Robert Hubble
                Sorry, but I got confused here. Are you making a distinction between liquid malt extract and malt syrup, especially as far as diastatic power (the ability to
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 14, 2014
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                  Sorry, but I got confused here. Are you making a distinction between liquid malt extract and malt syrup, especially as far as diastatic power (the ability to convert starches to fermentable sugars using enzymes) goes? One in a great while, from extremely knowledgable stillers, I hear that a diastatic malt extract exists, but I don't think anyone's actually ever seen it. Anyway, I'm confused by how 1 cup of malt-sugar syrup is "overkill for a 5 gal batch".

                  What am I missing?

                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:25:42 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                   

                  He did not provide a formula, so it was a good educated guess that it was extract because 1 cup of dry or crushed malt is not sufficient to convert a 5 gal batch of 10 lbs. corn.  Actually 1 cup of extract is overkill for a 5 gal batch.  Every way that I know how to make malt syrup will denature the enzymes.  In the end that leaves extract unless it is a smaller than 5 gal batch.

                  Robert



                  From: "djross@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:49 PM
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                   
                  Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt as noted in the actual question. You don't actually answer the question, just create confusion.
                  The short answer is dried malt or liquid malt would both be suitable as an alternative to mashing ( plus crushed malt if mashing) in order to get immediately available sugars for fermentation, or to provide starch converting enzymes for more efficient conversion.



                • RLB
                  The original question asked if the recipe was 1 cup of  dry malt, malt extract, or malt syrup.  I stated that it most likely had to be malt extract.  From
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 14, 2014
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                    The original question asked if the recipe was 1 cup of  dry malt, malt extract, or malt syrup.  I stated that it most likely had to be malt extract.  From my personal experience 1 cup of malt that I make does not equal 1 cup, so that eliminates whole or ground malt.  Malt extract should be concentrated enough to equal 4 lbs of dry malt, so in a 5 gal batch that is a little overkill in my opinion.  The last time I knew, they heated malt syrup up to 350 F, so that eliminates malt syrup on that list.  That would place malt extract at the top of the list from what I read.  I know very little about diastatic powder other than how its made.  When people say dry malt, I assume whole, ground, or crushed malt.

                    Robert     


                    From: "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:05 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                     
                    Sorry, but I got confused here. Are you making a distinction between liquid malt extract and malt syrup, especially as far as diastatic power (the ability to convert starches to fermentable sugars using enzymes) goes? One in a great while, from extremely knowledgable stillers, I hear that a diastatic malt extract exists, but I don't think anyone's actually ever seen it. Anyway, I'm confused by how 1 cup of malt-sugar syrup is "overkill for a 5 gal batch".

                    What am I missing?

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:25:42 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                     

                    He did not provide a formula, so it was a good educated guess that it was extract because 1 cup of dry or crushed malt is not sufficient to convert a 5 gal batch of 10 lbs. corn.  Actually 1 cup of extract is overkill for a 5 gal batch.  Every way that I know how to make malt syrup will denature the enzymes.  In the end that leaves extract unless it is a smaller than 5 gal batch.

                    Robert



                    From: "djross@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:49 PM
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                     
                    Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt as noted in the actual question. You don't actually answer the question, just create confusion.
                    The short answer is dried malt or liquid malt would both be suitable as an alternative to mashing ( plus crushed malt if mashing) in order to get immediately available sugars for fermentation, or to provide starch converting enzymes for more efficient conversion.





                  • Robert Hubble
                    Ok, I was assuming dry malt to be DME, dry malt extract, like the syrup with the sugar removed. Thanks for clarifying. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller To:
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 14, 2014
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                      Ok, I was assuming "dry malt" to be DME, dry malt extract, like the syrup with the sugar removed.

                      Thanks for  clarifying.

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 08:26:53 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                       

                      The original question asked if the recipe was 1 cup of  dry malt, malt extract, or malt syrup.  I stated that it most likely had to be malt extract.  From my personal experience 1 cup of malt that I make does not equal 1 cup, so that eliminates whole or ground malt.  Malt extract should be concentrated enough to equal 4 lbs of dry malt, so in a 5 gal batch that is a little overkill in my opinion.  The last time I knew, they heated malt syrup up to 350 F, so that eliminates malt syrup on that list.  That would place malt extract at the top of the list from what I read.  I know very little about diastatic powder other than how its made.  When people say dry malt, I assume whole, ground, or crushed malt.

                      Robert     


                      From: "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:05 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                       
                      Sorry, but I got confused here. Are you making a distinction between liquid malt extract and malt syrup, especially as far as diastatic power (the ability to convert starches to fermentable sugars using enzymes) goes? One in a great while, from extremely knowledgable stillers, I hear that a diastatic malt extract exists, but I don't think anyone's actually ever seen it. Anyway, I'm confused by how 1 cup of malt-sugar syrup is "overkill for a 5 gal batch".

                      What am I missing?

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:25:42 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                       

                      He did not provide a formula, so it was a good educated guess that it was extract because 1 cup of dry or crushed malt is not sufficient to convert a 5 gal batch of 10 lbs. corn.  Actually 1 cup of extract is overkill for a 5 gal batch.  Every way that I know how to make malt syrup will denature the enzymes.  In the end that leaves extract unless it is a smaller than 5 gal batch.

                      Robert



                      From: "djross@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:49 PM
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                       
                      Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt as noted in the actual question. You don't actually answer the question, just create confusion.
                      The short answer is dried malt or liquid malt would both be suitable as an alternative to mashing ( plus crushed malt if mashing) in order to get immediately available sugars for fermentation, or to provide starch converting enzymes for more efficient conversion.






                    • donna ricketts
                      I m a retired Chef and if I read a recipe that called for a cup it is most likely a liquid but also in baking a dry cup measure....but you can also use oz.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 15, 2014
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                        I'm a retired Chef and if I read a recipe that called for a cup it is most likely a liquid but also in baking a dry cup measure....but you can also use oz. amount....so for 5 gal I would pick a dry crushed malt...it makes more sense...it's always the least amount of ingredients I use in my Whiskey.....



                        On Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:26 AM, "RLB last2blast@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                         
                        The original question asked if the recipe was 1 cup of  dry malt, malt extract, or malt syrup.  I stated that it most likely had to be malt extract.  From my personal experience 1 cup of malt that I make does not equal 1 cup, so that eliminates whole or ground malt.  Malt extract should be concentrated enough to equal 4 lbs of dry malt, so in a 5 gal batch that is a little overkill in my opinion.  The last time I knew, they heated malt syrup up to 350 F, so that eliminates malt syrup on that list.  That would place malt extract at the top of the list from what I read.  I know very little about diastatic powder other than how its made.  When people say dry malt, I assume whole, ground, or crushed malt.

                        Robert     


                        From: "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:05 AM
                        Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                         
                        Sorry, but I got confused here. Are you making a distinction between liquid malt extract and malt syrup, especially as far as diastatic power (the ability to convert starches to fermentable sugars using enzymes) goes? One in a great while, from extremely knowledgable stillers, I hear that a diastatic malt extract exists, but I don't think anyone's actually ever seen it. Anyway, I'm confused by how 1 cup of malt-sugar syrup is "overkill for a 5 gal batch".

                        What am I missing?

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:25:42 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                         

                        He did not provide a formula, so it was a good educated guess that it was extract because 1 cup of dry or crushed malt is not sufficient to convert a 5 gal batch of 10 lbs. corn.  Actually 1 cup of extract is overkill for a 5 gal batch.  Every way that I know how to make malt syrup will denature the enzymes.  In the end that leaves extract unless it is a smaller than 5 gal batch.

                        Robert



                        From: "djross@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:49 PM
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                         
                        Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt as noted in the actual question. You don't actually answer the question, just create confusion.
                        The short answer is dried malt or liquid malt would both be suitable as an alternative to mashing ( plus crushed malt if mashing) in order to get immediately available sugars for fermentation, or to provide starch converting enzymes for more efficient conversion.







                      • RLB
                        I prefer course ground malts because they add more flavor and character than extract, so it come down to our point of view. Robert
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 15, 2014
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                          I prefer course ground malts because they add more flavor and character than extract, so it come down to our point of view.

                          Robert


                          From: "donna ricketts howlingchef1@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 10:42 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                           
                          I'm a retired Chef and if I read a recipe that called for a cup it is most likely a liquid but also in baking a dry cup measure....but you can also use oz. amount....so for 5 gal I would pick a dry crushed malt...it makes more sense...it's always the least amount of ingredients I use in my Whiskey.....



                        • Dan Monnier
                          I am sorry to send this msg this way but no way to down load XL to your site. I am now using a riser that is 1 in up 28 in. Elbowing over 90 degrees then 45
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 16, 2014
                          • 1 Attachment
                          • 23 KB
                          I am sorry to send this msg this way but no way to down load XL to your site.
                          I am now using a riser that is 1 in up 28 in. Elbowing over 90 degrees then 45 degrees to an arm 12 in long. Then goes into the condenser shown on drawing. I am trying to increase flow rate from a slow drip to a faster drip or small small stream. any advise would be greatly appreciated.


                          On Friday, August 15, 2014 9:44 AM, "donna ricketts howlingchef1@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                           
                          I'm a retired Chef and if I read a recipe that called for a cup it is most likely a liquid but also in baking a dry cup measure....but you can also use oz. amount....so for 5 gal I would pick a dry crushed malt...it makes more sense...it's always the least amount of ingredients I use in my Whiskey.....



                          On Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:26 AM, "RLB last2blast@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                           
                          The original question asked if the recipe was 1 cup of  dry malt, malt extract, or malt syrup.  I stated that it most likely had to be malt extract.  From my personal experience 1 cup of malt that I make does not equal 1 cup, so that eliminates whole or ground malt.  Malt extract should be concentrated enough to equal 4 lbs of dry malt, so in a 5 gal batch that is a little overkill in my opinion.  The last time I knew, they heated malt syrup up to 350 F, so that eliminates malt syrup on that list.  That would place malt extract at the top of the list from what I read.  I know very little about diastatic powder other than how its made.  When people say dry malt, I assume whole, ground, or crushed malt.

                          Robert     

                          From: "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:05 AM
                          Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                           
                          Sorry, but I got confused here. Are you making a distinction between liquid malt extract and malt syrup, especially as far as diastatic power (the ability to convert starches to fermentable sugars using enzymes) goes? One in a great while, from extremely knowledgable stillers, I hear that a diastatic malt extract exists, but I don't think anyone's actually ever seen it. Anyway, I'm confused by how 1 cup of malt-sugar syrup is "overkill for a 5 gal batch".

                          What am I missing?

                          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller



                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:25:42 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                           

                          He did not provide a formula, so it was a good educated guess that it was extract because 1 cup of dry or crushed malt is not sufficient to convert a 5 gal batch of 10 lbs. corn.  Actually 1 cup of extract is overkill for a 5 gal batch.  Every way that I know how to make malt syrup will denature the enzymes.  In the end that leaves extract unless it is a smaller than 5 gal batch.

                          Robert


                          From: "djross@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 11:49 PM
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                           
                          Why a question for the New Distillers Group when you yourself obviously are not sure? You say most probably extract but it could also be dried or crushed malt as noted in the actual question. You don't actually answer the question, just create confusion.
                          The short answer is dried malt or liquid malt would both be suitable as an alternative to mashing ( plus crushed malt if mashing) in order to get immediately available sugars for fermentation, or to provide starch converting enzymes for more efficient conversion.









                        • Robert Hubble
                          The first step toward more flow is to find what s limiting you. If you can t turn up the heat more, that s your first limitation. The 1 (although your drawing
                          Message 13 of 17 , Aug 16, 2014
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                            The first step toward more flow is to find what's limiting you. If you can't turn up the heat more, that's your first limitation. The 1" (although your drawing shows 2") riser can handle enough vapor for a small stream if you have enough power (or insulate your pot better). There's no real need for a 90 degree ell at the top, but that isn't hurting your output.

                            Because there's no length shown for that liebig condenser, it's not clear how much vapor (directly related to power) that condenser will condense, but if you turn up the power and get some vapor out of the product end of the condenser, then the condenser has become your next limitation.

                            Speaking of condensers, it's not vital that your water jacket be as large as 1". Many of us use 1/2" inside 3/4" condensers, which work well, cost less and are less heavy. Also, if you find that your condenser is limiting you, it may be the small size of your cooling water supply and outlet. You'd be better off with 5/16" or 3/8" for that tubing. If you still need more condensing power, you'll need to lengthen your condenser and/or put turbulating devices in boththe vapor path and the cooling water path. Bent copper wire of strands of copper scrubbies can work.

                            Very basically, though, your design looks quite workable.

                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:20:32 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook [1 Attachment]

                             
                            [Attachment(s) from Dan Monnier included below]
                            I am sorry to send this msg this way but no way to down load XL to your site.
                            I am now using a riser that is 1 in up 28 in. Elbowing over 90 degrees then 45 degrees to an arm 12 in long. Then goes into the condenser shown on drawing. I am trying to increase flow rate from a slow drip to a faster drip or small small stream. any advise would be greatly appreciated.


                            ....snip....










                          • Dan Monnier
                            Thank you sir. Your info will be incorporated. This is what I was hoping for. On Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:02 PM, Robert Hubble zymurgybob@hotmail.com
                            Message 14 of 17 , Aug 17, 2014
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thank you sir. Your info will be incorporated. This is what I was hoping for.


                              On Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:02 PM, "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                               
                              The first step toward more flow is to find what's limiting you. If you can't turn up the heat more, that's your first limitation. The 1" (although your drawing shows 2") riser can handle enough vapor for a small stream if you have enough power (or insulate your pot better). There's no real need for a 90 degree ell at the top, but that isn't hurting your output.

                              Because there's no length shown for that liebig condenser, it's not clear how much vapor (directly related to power) that condenser will condense, but if you turn up the power and get some vapor out of the product end of the condenser, then the condenser has become your next limitation.

                              Speaking of condensers, it's not vital that your water jacket be as large as 1". Many of us use 1/2" inside 3/4" condensers, which work well, cost less and are less heavy. Also, if you find that your condenser is limiting you, it may be the small size of your cooling water supply and outlet. You'd be better off with 5/16" or 3/8" for that tubing. If you still need more condensing power, you'll need to lengthen your condenser and/or put turbulating devices in boththe vapor path and the cooling water path. Bent copper wire of strands of copper scrubbies can work.

                              Very basically, though, your design looks quite workable.

                              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:20:32 -0700
                              Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook [1 Attachment]

                               
                              [Attachment(s) from Dan Monnier included below]
                              I am sorry to send this msg this way but no way to down load XL to your site.
                              I am now using a riser that is 1 in up 28 in. Elbowing over 90 degrees then 45 degrees to an arm 12 in long. Then goes into the condenser shown on drawing. I am trying to increase flow rate from a slow drip to a faster drip or small small stream. any advise would be greatly appreciated.


                              ....snip....












                            • Robert Hubble
                              I forgot to mention that a condenser length of from 24 to 32 should work well with that still, depending on how much power you put to it. Zymurgy Bob, a
                              Message 15 of 17 , Aug 17, 2014
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                                I forgot to mention that a condenser length of from 24" to 32" should work well with that still, depending on how much power you put to it.

                                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 05:50:29 -0700
                                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                                 

                                Thank you sir. Your info will be incorporated. This is what I was hoping for.


                                On Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:02 PM, "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                 
                                The first step toward more flow is to find what's limiting you. If you can't turn up the heat more, that's your first limitation. The 1" (although your drawing shows 2") riser can handle enough vapor for a small stream if you have enough power (or insulate your pot better). There's no real need for a 90 degree ell at the top, but that isn't hurting your output.

                                Because there's no length shown for that liebig condenser, it's not clear how much vapor (directly related to power) that condenser will condense, but if you turn up the power and get some vapor out of the product end of the condenser, then the condenser has become your next limitation.

                                Speaking of condensers, it's not vital that your water jacket be as large as 1". Many of us use 1/2" inside 3/4" condensers, which work well, cost less and are less heavy. Also, if you find that your condenser is limiting you, it may be the small size of your cooling water supply and outlet. You'd be better off with 5/16" or 3/8" for that tubing. If you still need more condensing power, you'll need to lengthen your condenser and/or put turbulating devices in boththe vapor path and the cooling water path. Bent copper wire of strands of copper scrubbies can work.

                                Very basically, though, your design looks quite workable.

                                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:20:32 -0700
                                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook [1 Attachment]

                                 
                                [Attachment(s) from Dan Monnier included below]
                                I am sorry to send this msg this way but no way to down load XL to your site.
                                I am now using a riser that is 1 in up 28 in. Elbowing over 90 degrees then 45 degrees to an arm 12 in long. Then goes into the condenser shown on drawing. I am trying to increase flow rate from a slow drip to a faster drip or small small stream. any advise would be greatly appreciated.


                                ....snip....













                              • Dan Monnier
                                Power is not an issue. propane gas burner.I will extend condenser. Forgot to mention the existing riser is a 1 in. reducing to 1/2 in. on the downward arm. I
                                Message 16 of 17 , Aug 17, 2014
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                                  Power is not an issue. propane gas burner.I will extend condenser.
                                  Forgot to mention the existing riser is a 1 in. reducing to 1/2 in. on the downward arm. I can get a small stream by raising temp at head to 190 to 200. Too hot?


                                  On Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:21 PM, "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                   
                                  I forgot to mention that a condenser length of from 24" to 32" should work well with that still, depending on how much power you put to it.

                                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 05:50:29 -0700
                                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                                   

                                  Thank you sir. Your info will be incorporated. This is what I was hoping for.


                                  On Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:02 PM, "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                   
                                  The first step toward more flow is to find what's limiting you. If you can't turn up the heat more, that's your first limitation. The 1" (although your drawing shows 2") riser can handle enough vapor for a small stream if you have enough power (or insulate your pot better). There's no real need for a 90 degree ell at the top, but that isn't hurting your output.

                                  Because there's no length shown for that liebig condenser, it's not clear how much vapor (directly related to power) that condenser will condense, but if you turn up the power and get some vapor out of the product end of the condenser, then the condenser has become your next limitation.

                                  Speaking of condensers, it's not vital that your water jacket be as large as 1". Many of us use 1/2" inside 3/4" condensers, which work well, cost less and are less heavy. Also, if you find that your condenser is limiting you, it may be the small size of your cooling water supply and outlet. You'd be better off with 5/16" or 3/8" for that tubing. If you still need more condensing power, you'll need to lengthen your condenser and/or put turbulating devices in boththe vapor path and the cooling water path. Bent copper wire of strands of copper scrubbies can work.

                                  Very basically, though, your design looks quite workable.

                                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:20:32 -0700
                                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook [1 Attachment]

                                   
                                  [Attachment(s) from Dan Monnier included below]
                                  I am sorry to send this msg this way but no way to down load XL to your site.
                                  I am now using a riser that is 1 in up 28 in. Elbowing over 90 degrees then 45 degrees to an arm 12 in long. Then goes into the condenser shown on drawing. I am trying to increase flow rate from a slow drip to a faster drip or small small stream. any advise would be greatly appreciated.


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                                • Robert Hubble
                                  All propane burners are not created equal. For years I stilled on one or two of the two-burner camp cookers with long legs, about crotch high, but when I
                                  Message 17 of 17 , Aug 17, 2014
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                                    All propane burners are not created equal. For years I stilled on one or two of the two-burner "camp cookers" with long legs, about crotch high, but when I changed to a Bayou Classic burner, I started testing the limits of my propane (as in tank freezup in cool weather) and my condenser and cooling water supply, at least when stripping.

                                    As for head temperature, that should be strictly a function of your wash ethanol concentration, with maybe a very small cooling from the wash surface to the temperature sensor which should be about where the vapor leaves the riser to travel down the lyne arm. Given your wash ABV, you can find your head temperature from the intersection of the ABV line and the blue curve of this graph. (Sorry it doesn't handle this resolution well, but you can see the actual image at http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/alcoholvaporCelsius.gif)

                                     
                                     

                                    If, for instance, your wash is 10% ABV, it will boil about 93C (about 199F). If you are boiling a 10% wash and the head temperature is below 93C, then you are boiling so slowly that you're just losing enough heat to drop the vapor temperature just a bit, or maybe more, depending on how slow you're going.

                                    Maybe this will help: http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/ReadMeFirst/MagicBoilingMyth.html

                                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 10:29:54 -0700
                                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: The Home Distillers Workbook

                                     

                                    Power is not an issue. propane gas burner.I will extend condenser.
                                    Forgot to mention the existing riser is a 1 in. reducing to 1/2 in. on the downward arm. I can get a small stream by raising temp at head to 190 to 200. Too hot?


                                    On Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:21 PM, "Robert Hubble zymurgybob@... [Distillers]" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                     
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