Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Flavor Compounds

Expand Messages
  • ballard_bootlegger
    Hello fellow drinkers, I ve got a question that they chemistry buffs in the group may be able to help with. Working with the assumption that during
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 14, 2014
      Hello fellow drinkers,
      I've got a question that they chemistry buffs in the group may be able to help with.  Working with the assumption that during equalization or stacking of the compounds inside a fractioning column the flavor compounds in the mash are broken down into simpler compounds based on their volatility.  My question is, will the simpler parts of each flavor compound tend to find each other in the distillate?  Obviously some of those components will be removed with the cuts, but do the remaining flavors have a natural bond that they want to form?  I get the feeling there is a simple answer staring me in the face but I can't put my finger on it.  Thoughts?

      Whitney. 
    • Ion Brown
      Hi Whitney I distill for clean vodka . After stripping the wort, it goes through my compound reflux still slowly , removing the heads . Next I take the
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 14, 2014
        Hi Whitney

        I distill for clean vodka .
        After stripping the wort, it goes through my compound reflux still slowly , removing the heads .
        Next I take the alcohol until finished, leaving the tails behind . My next stage is to polish the ethanol with carbon.

        In my opinion you have to get to this stage if you are making gin or drinks that are looking for botanical flavours .
        Trying to take a delicate botanical flavour off with their own individual character, and having heads and tails in the mix, would interfere with everything you are trying to achieve

        As for the botanicals, I prepare these separately. I macerate in alcohol and then distill this concentrate in a small
        ( coffee ) pot still, in relative small amounts I can experiment with this without having liters of horrible disasters !
        This is then added to the clean vodka in small amounts .

        You could put the botanicals into a bag and immerse into the main still to come over, but the ethanol should already be clean.

        Hope this some help

        Ion
      • Robert Hubble
        Whitney, While there can be a bit of actual chemistry (as in compounds reacting with other compounds to make new compounds) happening in a fractionating
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 14, 2014
          Whitney,

          While there can be a bit of actual chemistry (as in compounds reacting with other compounds to make new compounds) happening in a fractionating column, mostly what happens is simply separation (to a degree depending on the still and how it's run) of un-changed compounds, based, as you say, on properties that could be described as volatility.

          While there are some natural weak bonds formed between two or more compounds, forming what we call "azeotropes", I've never heard of anyone examining these in distillation except for the common ethanol-water-methanol azeotrope. I would think that most experienced potstillers would tell you (like I would) that specific flavors will appear to peak at different points in a still run, based on molecular weight, concentration, and vapor pressure, without any "pairing" of flavors.

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          From: whitney@...
          Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:38:05 -0700
          Subject: [Distillers] Flavor Compounds

           
          Hello fellow drinkers,
          I've got a question that they chemistry buffs in the group may be able to help with.  Working with the assumption that during equalization or stacking of the compounds inside a fractioning column the flavor compounds in the mash are broken down into simpler compounds based on their volatility.  My question is, will the simpler parts of each flavor compound tend to find each other in the distillate?  Obviously some of those components will be removed with the cuts, but do the remaining flavors have a natural bond that they want to form?  I get the feeling there is a simple answer staring me in the face but I can't put my finger on it.  Thoughts?

          Whitney. 

        • Dirck Donson
          Whitney, The natural carryover and the bond you speak of...there are and I have seen Flavor Charts of the analysis from wine and liquor samples. These charts
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 15, 2014
            Whitney,

            The natural carryover and the bond you speak of...there are and I have seen Flavor Charts of the analysis from wine and liquor samples. These charts were done to study the effects of changes in processes you are talking about.

            I have recently heard the same analysis is done for Brandy and Sherry based on the temp at which it comes off the Product Condenser. I'm looking for that.

            Here's a reference.   https://www.chromspec.com/pdf/e/rk03.pdf


            From: Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...>
            To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <distillers@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 11:50 PM
            Subject: RE: [Distillers] Flavor Compounds

             
            Whitney,

            While there can be a bit of actual chemistry (as in compounds reacting with other compounds to make new compounds) happening in a fractionating column, mostly what happens is simply separation (to a degree depending on the still and how it's run) of un-changed compounds, based, as you say, on properties that could be described as volatility.

            While there are some natural weak bonds formed between two or more compounds, forming what we call "azeotropes", I've never heard of anyone examining these in distillation except for the common ethanol-water-methanol azeotrope. I would think that most experienced potstillers would tell you (like I would) that specific flavors will appear to peak at different points in a still run, based on molecular weight, concentration, and vapor pressure, without any "pairing" of flavors.

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            From: whitney@...
            Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:38:05 -0700
            Subject: [Distillers] Flavor Compounds

             
            Hello fellow drinkers,
            I've got a question that they chemistry buffs in the group may be able to help with.  Working with the assumption that during equalization or stacking of the compounds inside a fractioning column the flavor compounds in the mash are broken down into simpler compounds based on their volatility.  My question is, will the simpler parts of each flavor compound tend to find each other in the distillate?  Obviously some of those components will be removed with the cuts, but do the remaining flavors have a natural bond that they want to form?  I get the feeling there is a simple answer staring me in the face but I can't put my finger on it.  Thoughts?

            Whitney. 



          • ballard_bootlegger
            Thanks for the insight! Whitney.
            Message 5 of 5 , May 5, 2014
              Thanks for the insight!  

              Whitney.
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.