Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Fermentaion

Expand Messages
  • lonz@bellsouth.net
    Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 17, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
    • Prashant Jha
      Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble solids in suspension.
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 17, 2013
      • 0 Attachment

        Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble solids in suspension.

        On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@..." <lonz@...> wrote:
         

        Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone

      • edbar44
        whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 18, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
          >
          > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble
          > solids in suspension.
          > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@..." <lonz@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Prashant Jha
          But dont try to over agitate as by doing this your mash will catch oxygen and you will end up destroying your mash. Keep agitator speed at 35 RPM.
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 18, 2013
          • 0 Attachment

            But dont try to over agitate as by doing this your mash will catch oxygen and you will end up destroying your mash. Keep agitator speed at 35 RPM.

            On Dec 18, 2013 7:50 PM, "edbar44" <edbar44@...> wrote:
             

            whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble
            > solids in suspension.
            > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@..." <lonz@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >

          • RLB
            From what I have read and experienced, there are two ways of dealing with this stirring issue.  Oxygenating your water really well before fermentation will
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 18, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              From what I have read and experienced, there are two ways of dealing with this stirring issue.  Oxygenating your water really well before fermentation will normally remove the need to stir during fermentation.    If you have ever watched fermentation using a see through vessel, you will notice that yeast and bubbles raise to the top and then yeast sinks constantly throughout the whole process, so no further stirring is actually required once started.  Stirring will open your wort to contamination of wild yeast and bacteria that will turn your wash into vinegar.  In the case of brandy, stirring does seems to be the norm.

              If it was me, I would never stir once my wort was fermenting so as not to disturb that protective scum cap.  Once it's finished, I place it into gallon jugs for storage and wait for the yeast to drop to the bottom and it releases any residual CO2.  For what it's worth thats my 2 cents.

              Robert


              From: edbar44 <edbar44@...>
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:20 AM
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion

               
              whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble
              > solids in suspension.
              > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@..." <lonz@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
              > >
            • jeffrey.burrows
              As Robert says once the fermentation starts leave it alone. Regards oxygenation of the water With the pressurized council tap water that I use here in France
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 18, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                As Robert says once the fermentation starts leave it alone.  Regards oxygenation of the water 
                With the pressurized council tap water that I use here in France it is chlorinated and I find if I use a shower rose to oxygenate the water as it spays into the fermentation bucket it oxygenates and helps clear most of the chlorine in one operation.  It works, never had one ferment fail yet.

                Geoff    

              • Allister Keay
                Never say never,it will happen to you sooner or later, the art is so know how to un-stuck it or when it becomes more economical to chuck it. Allister On Dec
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 18, 2013
                • 0 Attachment

                  Never say never,it will happen to you sooner or later, the art is so know how to un-stuck it or when it becomes more economical to chuck it.

                  Allister

                  On Dec 18, 2013 8:06 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                   

                  As Robert says once the fermentation starts leave it alone.  Regards oxygenation of the water 
                  With the pressurized council tap water that I use here in France it is chlorinated and I find if I use a shower rose to oxygenate the water as it spays into the fermentation bucket it oxygenates and helps clear most of the chlorine in one operation.  It works, never had one ferment fail yet.

                  Geoff    

                • Eddie Hoskin
                  Hahaha, I knew that this would spark some discussion. To agitate, or not to agitate, is a balancing act between yeast stress and infection.  To summarize, if
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 18, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Hahaha, I knew that this would spark some discussion.

                    To agitate, or not to agitate, is a balancing act between yeast stress and infection. To summarize, if your mash has a pretty low alcohol % (like under 10%), then the yeast should not really be very stressed, and agitation will not gain you and real benefit. In addition, the lower alcohol % means that baddies are more likely to survive and cause trouble. Beer, for instance, is very rarely agitated, for these reasons.

                    However, if you are talking about higher gravity/alcohol 'wines' as a wash, then there is some stress on the yeast, and some benefit may be seen from agitation. And the higher alcohol content will help to protect against infection. Wines are very commonly agitated (hence why this is the 'common' practice for brandy) for this reason.

                    As a side note, if you are fermenting on the grain, the I definitely recommend sneaking a peak at the ferment and stirring in any floating bits of grain. Mold is much more likely to grow on floating, rather than submerged, grain. Wine makers might refer to this as 'knocking down the cap'; submerging and wetting the floating material so that it doesn't dry out.

                    Hope that helps,
                    RadicalEd


                    Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



                    From: jeffrey.burrows <jeffrey.burrows@...>;
                    To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion
                    Sent: Wed, Dec 18, 2013 6:06:35 PM

                     

                    As Robert says once the fermentation starts leave it alone.  Regards oxygenation of the water 
                    With the pressurized council tap water that I use here in France it is chlorinated and I find if I use a shower rose to oxygenate the water as it spays into the fermentation bucket it oxygenates and helps clear most of the chlorine in one operation.  It works, never had one ferment fail yet.

                    Geoff    

                  • jeffrey.burrows
                    Hi Eddie, The first stage in the yeast cycle, is where it starts to multiply and is the Aerobic stage where it needs oxygen to grow and multiply and it will
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 18, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Hi Eddie,

                      The first stage in the yeast cycle, is where it starts to multiply and is the Aerobic stage where it needs oxygen to grow and multiply and it will grow at an exponential rate very, very fast. 

                      As most of the oxygen is used up, it moves into the anaerobic stage where it stops growing and multiplying through lack of oxygen  and turns on the sugar and starts eating that to live.  This is the stage where it produces (or pees) ethanol and produces (or farts)CO2, Introducing oxygen at this stage will only stunt our ethanol production andf your fermentation and can sometimes stop.  On the positive side the yeast will quite happily turn every grain of sugar into alcohol and become more ethanol tolerant as it ferments.  Thus making higher ABV, lovely yum yum      

                    • Prashant Jha
                      Guys guys guys....first of all let me tell you one thing. Yeast is a facultative organism that is it will produce ethanol in presence and also in the absence
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 20, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Guys guys guys....first of all let me tell you one thing. Yeast is a facultative organism that is it will produce ethanol in presence and also in the absence of yeast. In both cases you will need a agitator. I haven't seen a single grain based industry where agitator is not used. I have commissioned more than 10 plants in my career till now but haven't seen fermenter without agitator whether it is molasses based or grain based. One thing more, in alfa laval plant there is input of sterile air through blowers (continous fermentation) and also they have a prefermenter or yeast activation tank where plenty of oxygen and agitation is done so as to facilitate yeast growth. YAT is afterwards transferred to the fermenter.
                        But  in other batch type plants. Yeast is added to YAT and transferred to fermenter when cell count becomes more than 400 millions. But you know what all fermenters need agitator.

                        Any questions guys... :-) :D

                        On Dec 18, 2013 9:43 PM, "RLB" <last2blast@...> wrote:
                         

                        From what I have read and experienced, there are two ways of dealing with this stirring issue.  Oxygenating your water really well before fermentation will normally remove the need to stir during fermentation.    If you have ever watched fermentation using a see through vessel, you will notice that yeast and bubbles raise to the top and then yeast sinks constantly throughout the whole process, so no further stirring is actually required once started.  Stirring will open your wort to contamination of wild yeast and bacteria that will turn your wash into vinegar.  In the case of brandy, stirring does seems to be the norm.

                        If it was me, I would never stir once my wort was fermenting so as not to disturb that protective scum cap.  Once it's finished, I place it into gallon jugs for storage and wait for the yeast to drop to the bottom and it releases any residual CO2.  For what it's worth thats my 2 cents.

                        Robert


                        From: edbar44 <edbar44@...>
                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:20 AM
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion

                         
                        whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble
                        > solids in suspension.
                        > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@..." <lonz@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
                        > >
                      • Lonnie
                        Well ~ still donÆt know if I should stir it or not some say donÆt and some say to I am not make n grain base wash I have a fruit base wash APPLES so the ???
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 21, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well ~ still don’t  know if I should stir it or not some say don’t and some say to I am not make n grain base wash I have a fruit base wash APPLES so the ??? is TO STIR OR NOT TO STIR THAT IS THE ?????
                           
                          Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:34 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion
                           
                           

                          Guys guys guys....first of all let me tell you one thing. Yeast is a facultative organism that is it will produce ethanol in presence and also in the absence of yeast. In both cases you will need a agitator. I haven't seen a single grain based industry where agitator is not used. I have commissioned more than 10 plants in my career till now but haven't seen fermenter without agitator whether it is molasses based or grain based. One thing more, in alfa laval plant there is input of sterile air through blowers (continous fermentation) and also they have a prefermenter or yeast activation tank where plenty of oxygen and agitation is done so as to facilitate yeast growth. YAT is afterwards transferred to the fermenter.
                          But  in other batch type plants. Yeast is added to YAT and transferred to fermenter when cell count becomes more than 400 millions. But you know what all fermenters need agitator.

                          Any questions guys... :-) :D

                          On Dec 18, 2013 9:43 PM, "RLB" <last2blast@...> wrote:
                           

                          From what I have read and experienced, there are two ways of dealing with this stirring issue.  Oxygenating your water really well before fermentation will normally remove the need to stir during fermentation.    If you have ever watched fermentation using a see through vessel, you will notice that yeast and bubbles raise to the top and then yeast sinks constantly throughout the whole process, so no further stirring is actually required once started.  Stirring will open your wort to contamination of wild yeast and bacteria that will turn your wash into vinegarIn the case of brandy, stirring does seems to be the norm.
                           
                          If it was me, I would never stir once my wort was fermenting so as not to disturb that protective scum cap.  Once it's finished, I place it into gallon jugs for storage and wait for the yeast to drop to the bottom and it releases any residual CO2.  For what it's worth thats my 2 cents.
                           
                          Robert
                           

                          From: edbar44 <edbar44@...>
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:20 AM
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion
                           
                           
                          whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble
                          > solids in suspension.
                          > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@..." <lonz@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
                          > >
                        • pint_o_shine
                          I am interested to see where this goes. I agree with Robert and I do have commercial experience to the degree that I have trained dozens and dozens of
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 21, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I am interested to see where this goes. I agree with Robert and I do have commercial experience to the degree that I have trained dozens and dozens of commercial ditilleries. I haven't opened a distillery yet, out of the 30 or so over the past 7 years that has an agitator in its fermenters.
                            Fermentations are usually so violent and have so much carbon dioxide rising that mashes look like they are boiling. The top never sets stagnant. It is always moving.

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Guys guys guys....first of all let me tell you one thing. Yeast is a
                            > facultative organism that is it will produce ethanol in presence and also
                            > in the absence of yeast. In both cases you will need a agitator. I haven't
                            > seen a single grain based industry where agitator is not used. I have
                            > commissioned more than 10 plants in my career till now but haven't seen
                            > fermenter without agitator whether it is molasses based or grain based. One
                            > thing more, in alfa laval plant there is input of sterile air through
                            > blowers (continous fermentation) and also they have a prefermenter or yeast
                            > activation tank where plenty of oxygen and agitation is done so as to
                            > facilitate yeast growth. YAT is afterwards transferred to the fermenter.
                            > But in other batch type plants. Yeast is added to YAT and transferred to
                            > fermenter when cell count becomes more than 400 millions. But you know what
                            > all fermenters need agitator.
                            >
                            > Any questions guys... :-) :D
                            > On Dec 18, 2013 9:43 PM, "RLB" <last2blast@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From what I have read and experienced, there are two ways of dealing with
                            > > this stirring issue. Oxygenating your water really well before fermentation
                            > > will normally remove the need to stir during fermentation. If you have
                            > > ever watched fermentation using a see through vessel, you will notice that
                            > > yeast and bubbles raise to the top and then yeast sinks constantly
                            > > throughout the whole process, so no further stirring is actually required
                            > > once started. Stirring will open your wort to contamination of wild yeast
                            > > and bacteria that will turn your wash into vinegar. In the case of
                            > > brandy, stirring does seems to be the norm.
                            > >
                            > > If it was me, I would never stir once my wort was fermenting so as not to
                            > > disturb that protective scum cap. Once it's finished, I place it into
                            > > gallon jugs for storage and wait for the yeast to drop to the bottom and it
                            > > releases any residual CO2. For what it's worth thats my 2 cents.
                            > >
                            > > Robert
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------
                            > > *From:* edbar44 <edbar44@...>
                            > > *To:* Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:20 AM
                            > > *Subject:* [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2
                            > >
                            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other
                            > > soluble
                            > > > solids in suspension.
                            > > > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@" <lonz@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it
                            > > alone
                            > > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • joe giffen
                            Hi,  The members of this group should not need any instruction about fermentation, this belongs in New Distillers . Incidentally I have been fermenting and
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 22, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi,
                               The members of this group should not need any instruction about fermentation, this belongs in 'New Distillers'.
                              Incidentally I have been fermenting and distilling successfully for years and have never agitated the wash.
                               
                              Regards
                              Joe


                              On Saturday, 21 December 2013, 15:13, pint_o_shine <pintoshine@...> wrote:
                               
                              I am interested to see where this goes. I agree with Robert and I do have commercial experience to the degree that I have trained dozens and dozens of commercial ditilleries. I haven't opened a distillery yet, out of the 30 or so over the past 7 years that has an agitator in its fermenters.
                              Fermentations are usually so violent and have so much carbon dioxide rising that mashes look like they are boiling. The top never sets stagnant. It is always moving.

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Guys guys guys....first of all let me tell you one thing. Yeast is a
                              > facultative organism that is it will produce ethanol in presence and also
                              > in the absence of yeast. In both cases you will need a agitator. I haven't
                              > seen a single grain based industry where agitator is not used. I have
                              > commissioned more than 10 plants in my career till now but haven't seen
                              > fermenter without agitator whether it is molasses based or grain based. One
                              > thing more, in alfa laval plant there is input of sterile air through
                              > blowers (continous fermentation) and also they have a prefermenter or yeast
                              > activation tank where plenty of oxygen and agitation is done so as to
                              > facilitate yeast growth. YAT is afterwards transferred to the fermenter.
                              > But in other batch type plants. Yeast is added to YAT and transferred to
                              > fermenter when cell count becomes more than 400 millions. But you know what
                              > all fermenters need agitator.
                              >
                              > Any questions guys... :-) :D
                              > On Dec 18, 2013 9:43 PM, "RLB" <last2blast@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > From what I have read and experienced, there are two ways of dealing with
                              > > this stirring issue. Oxygenating your water really well before fermentation
                              > > will normally remove the need to stir during fermentation. If you have
                              > > ever watched fermentation using a see through vessel, you will notice that
                              > > yeast and bubbles raise to the top and then yeast sinks constantly
                              > > throughout the whole process, so no further stirring is actually required
                              > > once started. Stirring will open your wort to contamination of wild yeast
                              > > and bacteria that will turn your wash into vinegar. In the case of
                              > > brandy, stirring does seems to be the norm.
                              > >
                              > > If it was me, I would never stir once my wort was fermenting so as not to
                              > > disturb that protective scum cap. Once it's finished, I place it into
                              > > gallon jugs for storage and wait for the yeast to drop to the bottom and it
                              > > releases any residual CO2. For what it's worth thats my 2 cents.
                              > >
                              > > Robert
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------
                              > > *From:* edbar44 <edbar44@...>
                              > > *To:* Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:20 AM
                              > > *Subject:* [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2
                              > >
                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other
                              > > soluble
                              > > > solids in suspension.
                              > > > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@" <lonz@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it
                              > > alone
                              > > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >



                            • Dirck Donson
                              I would stir (with a spoon or paddle) during prep and let it set during fermentation, unless you add something. Like if I adjust the ph, I give it a little
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 24, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I would stir (with a spoon or paddle) during prep and let it set during fermentation, unless you add something. Like if I adjust the ph, I give it a little stir.

                                When you think it's done stir as you put it into the boiler to remove Co2.
                                 
                                After you do one or two, you'll see it stirs itself and you need not interfere.

                                From: Lonnie <lonz@...>
                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 6:41 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion

                                 
                                Well ~ still don’t  know if I should stir it or not some say don’t and some say to I am not make n grain base wash I have a fruit base wash APPLES so the ??? is TO STIR OR NOT TO STIR THAT IS THE ?????
                                 
                                Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2013 1:34 AM
                                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion
                                 
                                 
                                Guys guys guys....first of all let me tell you one thing. Yeast is a facultative organism that is it will produce ethanol in presence and also in the absence of yeast. In both cases you will need a agitator. I haven't seen a single grain based industry where agitator is not used. I have commissioned more than 10 plants in my career till now but haven't seen fermenter without agitator whether it is molasses based or grain based. One thing more, in alfa laval plant there is input of sterile air through blowers (continous fermentation) and also they have a prefermenter or yeast activation tank where plenty of oxygen and agitation is done so as to facilitate yeast growth. YAT is afterwards transferred to the fermenter.
                                But  in other batch type plants. Yeast is added to YAT and transferred to fermenter when cell count becomes more than 400 millions. But you know what all fermenters need agitator.
                                Any questions guys... :-) :D
                                On Dec 18, 2013 9:43 PM, "RLB" <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                 
                                From what I have read and experienced, there are two ways of dealing with this stirring issue.  Oxygenating your water really well before fermentation will normally remove the need to stir during fermentation.    If you have ever watched fermentation using a see through vessel, you will notice that yeast and bubbles raise to the top and then yeast sinks constantly throughout the whole process, so no further stirring is actually required once started.  Stirring will open your wort to contamination of wild yeast and bacteria that will turn your wash into vinegarIn the case of brandy, stirring does seems to be the norm.
                                 
                                If it was me, I would never stir once my wort was fermenting so as not to disturb that protective scum cap.  Once it's finished, I place it into gallon jugs for storage and wait for the yeast to drop to the bottom and it releases any residual CO2.  For what it's worth thats my 2 cents.
                                 
                                Robert
                                 

                                From: edbar44 <edbar44@...>
                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 9:20 AM
                                Subject: [Distillers] Re: Fermentaion
                                 
                                 
                                whip it up real good and get rid of the residual CO2

                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Yes, of course you need to stir wash so as to keep yeast and other soluble
                                > solids in suspension.
                                > On Dec 18, 2013 3:08 AM, "lonz@..." <lonz@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Do i need to stir the wash when it is fermenting or do i just let it alone
                                > >


                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.