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Warning: Butanol

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  • last2blast
    Please read up on butanol and bio-butanol because butanol has almost the same energy as gasoline. If you reuse your tails over and over, you could create a
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 29, 2013
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      Please read up on butanol and bio-butanol because butanol has almost the same energy as gasoline.  If you reuse your tails over and over, you could create a harmful build up of butanol in your still that can explode like gasoline.  There is one form of butanol that does not mix with water, so it can't be diluted and very dangerous.  Butanol normally boils between 208 and 212, but as Zbob explained that all forms of alcohol evaporates during the distillation process.  This means you have butanol in your tails.


      Just be careful operating your hobby stills.

      Robert
    • Ed Barcik
      I m not a scientist but it appears that since we don t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I m missing something. OBTAINED BY
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 2, 2013
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        I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.

         

        OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.

      • planetgong0
        Correct dont worry about it. Dave E ... I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course,
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 2, 2013
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          Correct dont worry about it.

          Dave E 



          ---In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <edbar44@...> wrote:

          I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.

           

          OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.

        • RLB
          That form of biobutanal is similar to gasoline in its purest state, but my point was that adding tails to a pot will over time will cause a concentration of
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 2, 2013
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            That form of biobutanal is similar to gasoline in its purest state, but my point was that adding tails to a pot will over time will cause a concentration of butanol.  What happens to that butanol over time as it becomes more concentrated and heated repeatedly?  Can repeated re-heating and increasing butanol concentration convert it into biobutanol?  I am willing to venture that biobutanol can be created by re-heating and increasing butanol concentration.

            Biobutanol has only 10% less energy than gasoline and not soluble in water, so it's something we should all consider when reusing tails.

            Robert




            From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 10:37 AM
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

             
            I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.
             
            OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.
            _
          • joe giffen
             Have you nothing better to do like making some alcohol instead of posting lots of rubbish Joe On Monday, 2 December 2013, 19:56, RLB
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 2, 2013
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               Have you nothing better to do like making some alcohol instead of posting lots of rubbish
              Joe


              On Monday, 2 December 2013, 19:56, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
               
              That form of biobutanal is similar to gasoline in its purest state, but my point was that adding tails to a pot will over time will cause a concentration of butanol.  What happens to that butanol over time as it becomes more concentrated and heated repeatedly?  Can repeated re-heating and increasing butanol concentration convert it into biobutanol?  I am willing to venture that biobutanol can be created by re-heating and increasing butanol concentration.

              Biobutanol has only 10% less energy than gasoline and not soluble in water, so it's something we should all consider when reusing tails.

              Robert




              From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 10:37 AM
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

               
              I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.
               
              OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.
              _


            • Desross
              Can we add this nonsense to your many other experiments and self made theories that no one but you seems to get any value from reading? Best be careful
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 2, 2013
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                Can we add this nonsense to your many other ' experiments' and self made theories that no one but you seems to get any value from reading? Best be careful about the water source you use to germinate those grains you plan on malting and selling commercially...who knows what dangers may lurk in its composition and get passed on to simple minded home distillers who know no better....

                On 3/12/2013, at 9:03 AM, joe giffen <joegiffen@...> wrote:

                 

                 Have you nothing better to do like making some alcohol instead of posting lots of rubbish
                Joe


                On Monday, 2 December 2013, 19:56, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                 
                That form of biobutanal is similar to gasoline in its purest state, but my point was that adding tails to a pot will over time will cause a concentration of butanol.  What happens to that butanol over time as it becomes more concentrated and heated repeatedly?  Can repeated re-heating and increasing butanol concentration convert it into biobutanol?  I am willing to venture that biobutanol can be created by re-heating and increasing butanol concentration.

                Biobutanol has only 10% less energy than gasoline and not soluble in water, so it's something we should all consider when reusing tails.

                Robert




                From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 10:37 AM
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                 
                I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.
                 
                OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.
                _


              • Chuck
                Hi Joe I second your opinion on Roberts search for problems where none exist if for no other reason but to hear himself blather on about things he knows little
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 2, 2013
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                  Hi Joe

                  I second your opinion on Roberts search for problems where none exist if for no other reason but to hear himself blather on about things he knows little about.  We should start a thread of all of his strange and odd "experiments and theory's"  Maybe he should have his "new and Improved super malt" tested for radon it was probably driven near a granite deposit.

                  I hope we can get this blog redirected to talking about real distilling solutions.

                  From: Desross <djross@...>
                  To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 12:29 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                   
                  Can we add this nonsense to your many other ' experiments' and self made theories that no one but you seems to get any value from reading? Best be careful about the water source you use to germinate those grains you plan on malting and selling commercially...who knows what dangers may lurk in its composition and get passed on to simple minded home distillers who know no better....

                  On 3/12/2013, at 9:03 AM, joe giffen <joegiffen@...> wrote:

                   
                   Have you nothing better to do like making some alcohol instead of posting lots of rubbish
                  Joe


                  On Monday, 2 December 2013, 19:56, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                   
                  That form of biobutanal is similar to gasoline in its purest state, but my point was that adding tails to a pot will over time will cause a concentration of butanol.  What happens to that butanol over time as it becomes more concentrated and heated repeatedly?  Can repeated re-heating and increasing butanol concentration convert it into biobutanol?  I am willing to venture that biobutanol can be created by re-heating and increasing butanol concentration.

                  Biobutanol has only 10% less energy than gasoline and not soluble in water, so it's something we should all consider when reusing tails.

                  Robert




                  From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 10:37 AM
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                   
                  I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.
                   
                  OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.
                  _




                • Robert Hubble
                  Interesting. In making Scotch whisky, the Scots keep heads and tails, and add them back into the stilling process. Could it be that their fine flavor is due to
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 4, 2013
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                    Interesting. In making Scotch whisky, the Scots keep heads and tails, and add them back into the stilling process. Could it be that their fine flavor is due to traces of butanol? Whatever the flavor implications , they seem to be able to suppress explosions.

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    From: last2blast@...
                    Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 11:56:17 -0800
                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                     

                    That form of biobutanal is similar to gasoline in its purest state, but my point was that adding tails to a pot will over time will cause a concentration of butanol.  What happens to that butanol over time as it becomes more concentrated and heated repeatedly?  Can repeated re-heating and increasing butanol concentration convert it into biobutanol?  I am willing to venture that biobutanol can be created by re-heating and increasing butanol concentration.

                    Biobutanol has only 10% less energy than gasoline and not soluble in water, so it's something we should all consider when reusing tails.

                    Robert




                    From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 10:37 AM
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                     
                    I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.
                     
                    OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.
                    _

                  • RLB
                    I was hoping for a Yes or No answer to my two questions.  I will have to consult with an expert in Alcohol Chemistry if I ever hope to receive a yes or
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 4, 2013
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                      I was hoping for a "Yes" or "No" answer to my two questions.  I will have to consult with an expert in Alcohol Chemistry if I ever hope to receive a yes or no answer.  Thanks anyway.

                      Robert 


                      From: Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...>
                      To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:37 PM
                      Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                       
                      Interesting. In making Scotch whisky, the Scots keep heads and tails, and add them back into the stilling process. Could it be that their fine flavor is due to traces of butanol? Whatever the flavor implications , they seem to be able to suppress explosions.

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      From: last2blast@...
                      Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 11:56:17 -0800
                      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                       

                      That form of biobutanal is similar to gasoline in its purest state, but my point was that adding tails to a pot will over time will cause a concentration of butanol.  What happens to that butanol over time as it becomes more concentrated and heated repeatedly?  Can repeated re-heating and increasing butanol concentration convert it into biobutanol?  I am willing to venture that biobutanol can be created by re-heating and increasing butanol concentration.

                      Biobutanol has only 10% less energy than gasoline and not soluble in water, so it's something we should all consider when reusing tails.

                      Robert




                      From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 10:37 AM
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                       
                      I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.
                       
                      OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.
                      _



                    • jeffrey.burrows
                      Hi Bob, Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash. Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago? Although
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 5, 2013
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                        Hi Bob,

                         Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.

                        If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make

                         

                      • Robert Hubble
                        Hey Geoff, About damned time you got around to sticking your nose in our business. Don t be such a stranger, guy. Yeah, Harry s written about this several
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 5, 2013
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                          Hey Geoff,

                          About damned time you got around to sticking your nose in our business. Don't be such a stranger, guy. Yeah, Harry's written about this several times, and I'm sure more times than I know, but his reasoning's good and it works well for me. I'm a better stiller for it.

                          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          From: jeffrey.burrows@...
                          Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2013 09:13:31 +0100
                          Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                           

                          Hi Bob,

                           Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.

                          If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make

                           


                        • Adam Fordham
                          Anyone have any bad experiences using shell corn from a feed and seed? My concern is if either the farmer or feed and seed company may have sprayed anything on
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 6, 2013
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                            Anyone have any bad experiences using shell corn from a feed and seed? My concern is if either the farmer or feed and seed company may have sprayed anything on the corn for insect control. I'm guessing ( and don't like guessing) the hot mashing will either boil out or break down residual chemical pesticides.


                            Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


                            From: planetgong0@... <planetgong0@...>;
                            To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                            Subject: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                            Sent: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 6:53:37 PM



                            Correct dont worry about it.

                            Dave E 



                            ---In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <edbar44@...> wrote:

                            I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.

                             

                            OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.



                          • Paul
                            For what its worth I bought a sack of corn from a grain merchant where I live for bread-making. He told me that grain is routinely fumigated using a pesticide
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 6, 2013
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                              For what its worth I bought a sack of corn from a grain merchant where I live for bread-making. He told me that grain is routinely fumigated using a pesticide that starts out as a liquid and evaporates as it is sprayed into the stream of corn as it is transferred from one silo to another. He seemed to think the pesticide, being a gas, dissipates over a period of time, and was of the view that it was a necessity due to likely insect infestation during storage.




                               
                              Anyone have any bad experiences using shell corn from a feed and seed? My concern is if either the farmer or feed and seed company may have sprayed anything on the corn for insect control. I'm guessing ( and don't like guessing) the hot mashing will either boil out or break down residual chemical pesticides.


                              Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


                              From: planetgong0@... <planetgong0@...>;
                              To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                              Subject: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                              Sent: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 6:53:37 PM



                              Correct dont worry about it.
                              Dave E 


                              ---In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <edbar44@...> wrote:

                              I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.
                               
                              OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.




                            • W D Heimer
                              Yo’ Adam, Been using cracked corn from a local feed mill for several years now. Smooooooth tasting whiskey and it hasn’t killed me yet. I use about 3
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 6, 2013
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                                Yo’ Adam,
                                Been using cracked corn from a local feed mill for several years now.  Smooooooth tasting whiskey and it hasn’t killed me yet.  I use about 3 parts cracked corn to 1 part malted 6 row barley.
                                Regardz, Dave H.
                                 
                                Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 5:41 PM
                                Subject: RE: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                                 
                                 

                                Anyone have any bad experiences using shell corn from a feed and seed? My concern is if either the farmer or feed and seed company may have sprayed anything on the corn for insect control. I'm guessing ( and don't like guessing) the hot mashing will either boil out or break down residual chemical pesticides.


                                Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
                                 

                                From: planetgong0@... <planetgong0@...>;
                                To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                                Subject: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                                Sent: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 6:53:37 PM



                                Correct dont worry about it.

                                Dave E

                                 

                                ---In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <edbar44@...> wrote:

                                I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.

                                 

                                OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.



                              • W D Heimer
                                Yo’ Guys, Had a minor rectal/cranial inversion on my last post. It should be 1/3 malted 6 row barley to 2/3 corn. My Bad, Mea Culpa, Dave H. From: W D
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 8, 2013
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                                  Yo’ Guys,  Had a minor rectal/cranial inversion on my last post.  It should be 1/3 malted 6 row barley to 2/3 corn.
                                  My Bad, Mea Culpa, Dave H.
                                   
                                  Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:05 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                                   
                                  Yo’ Adam,
                                  Been using cracked corn from a local feed mill for several years now.  Smooooooth tasting whiskey and it hasn’t killed me yet.  I use about 3 parts cracked corn to 1 part malted 6 row barley.
                                  Regardz, Dave H.
                                   
                                  Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 5:41 PM
                                  Subject: RE: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                                   
                                   

                                  Anyone have any bad experiences using shell corn from a feed and seed? My concern is if either the farmer or feed and seed company may have sprayed anything on the corn for insect control. I'm guessing ( and don't like guessing) the hot mashing will either boil out or break down residual chemical pesticides.


                                  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
                                   

                                  From: planetgong0@... <planetgong0@...>;
                                  To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                                  Subject: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                                  Sent: Mon, Dec 2, 2013 6:53:37 PM



                                  Correct dont worry about it.

                                  Dave E

                                   

                                  ---In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <edbar44@...> wrote:

                                  I’m not a scientist but it appears that since we don’t use this yeast we may not get this product unless of course, I’m missing something.

                                   

                                  OBTAINED BY FERMENTATION OF GLYCEROL, MANNITE, STARCHES, & SUGARS IN GENERAL, USING BACILLUS BUTYLICUS SOMETIMES SYNERGIZED BY PRESENCE OF CLOSTRIDIUM ACETOBUTYRICUM, SYNTHETICALLY, FROM ACETYLENE.



                                • RLB
                                  6 row has more enzymes, (lower in amylase enzymes though), and more protein then 2 row, so 1/3 of 6 row malt is a lot.  One might want to reconsider that
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 8, 2013
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                                    6 row has more enzymes, (lower in amylase enzymes though), and more protein then 2 row, so 1/3 of 6 row malt is a lot.  One might want to reconsider that much 6 row.  If it was a bad crop year, you might need that much 6 row to convert starches into sugar.  Some people complain that 6 row leaves a grainy taste in beer, so that much 6 row might alter a distillates flavor profile negatively if the grain is a better quality.

                                    Robert



                                    From: W D Heimer <dheimer@...>
                                    To: Distillers group <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Sunday, December 8, 2013 1:45 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol

                                     
                                    Yo’ Guys,  Had a minor rectal/cranial inversion on my last post.  It should be 1/3 malted 6 row barley to 2/3 corn.
                                    My Bad, Mea Culpa, Dave H.
                                     
                                    Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 9:05 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] RE: Re: Warning: Butanol
                                     
                                    Yo’ Adam,
                                    Been using cracked corn from a local feed mill for several years now.  Smooooooth tasting whiskey and it hasn’t killed me yet.  I use about 3 parts cracked corn to 1 part malted 6 row barley.
                                    Regardz, Dave H.
                                     

                                  • Prashant Jha
                                    Don t don t don t!!! Don t add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 23, 2013
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                                      Don't don't don't!!! Don't add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the column than no one can strip it. It can only be removed by water boiling. And i am sure, no once wants to stop his/ her plant and do water boiling for 3-4 days as it will be a huge loss to them. This is my experience.

                                      On Dec 5, 2013 1:43 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Hi Bob,

                                       Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.

                                      If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make

                                       

                                    • joe giffen
                                      WHAT!!! Joe On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 9:37, Prashant Jha wrote:   Don t don t don t!!! Don t add tails back to the column because
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 24, 2013
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                                        WHAT!!!
                                        Joe


                                        On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 9:37, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        Don't don't don't!!! Don't add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the column than no one can strip it. It can only be removed by water boiling. And i am sure, no once wants to stop his/ her plant and do water boiling for 3-4 days as it will be a huge loss to them. This is my experience.
                                        On Dec 5, 2013 1:43 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                                         
                                        Hi Bob,
                                         Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.
                                        If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make
                                         


                                      • RLB
                                        I was thinking pot in my warning, but I can see where butanol build up would be a nightmare for a large operation column.  To remove it would take a lot of
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 24, 2013
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                                          I was thinking pot in my warning, but I can see where butanol build up would be a nightmare for a large operation column.  To remove it would take a lot of steam vapor unless you had a smaller column that could be disassembled quickly.  It's just another reason for me to stay away from a column.  Thanks for bring up that point.

                                          Robert


                                          From: Prashant Jha <prashant771@...>
                                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:02 AM
                                          Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                                           
                                          Don't don't don't!!! Don't add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the column than no one can strip it. It can only be removed by water boiling. And i am sure, no once wants to stop his/ her plant and do water boiling for 3-4 days as it will be a huge loss to them. This is my experience.
                                          On Dec 5, 2013 1:43 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                                           
                                          Hi Bob,
                                           Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.
                                          If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make
                                           


                                        • Prashant Jha
                                          Really. ... Really. On Dec 24, 2013 3:26 PM, joe giffen wrote: á WHAT!!! Joe On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 9:37, Prashant Jha
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 24, 2013
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                                            Really.

                                            On Dec 24, 2013 3:26 PM, "joe giffen" <joegiffen@...> wrote:
                                             

                                            WHAT!!!
                                            Joe


                                            On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 9:37, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                                             
                                            Don't don't don't!!! Don't add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the column than no one can strip it. It can only be removed by water boiling. And i am sure, no once wants to stop his/ her plant and do water boiling for 3-4 days as it will be a huge loss to them. This is my experience.
                                            On Dec 5, 2013 1:43 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                                             
                                            Hi Bob,
                                             Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.
                                            If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make
                                             


                                          • joe giffen
                                            The nuts are running the asylum! Joe On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 12:29, RLB wrote:   I was thinking pot in my warning, but I can see
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 24, 2013
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                                              The nuts are running the asylum!
                                              Joe


                                              On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 12:29, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                               
                                              I was thinking pot in my warning, but I can see where butanol build up would be a nightmare for a large operation column.  To remove it would take a lot of steam vapor unless you had a smaller column that could be disassembled quickly.  It's just another reason for me to stay away from a column.  Thanks for bring up that point.

                                              Robert


                                              From: Prashant Jha <prashant771@...>
                                              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:02 AM
                                              Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                                               
                                              Don't don't don't!!! Don't add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the column than no one can strip it. It can only be removed by water boiling. And i am sure, no once wants to stop his/ her plant and do water boiling for 3-4 days as it will be a huge loss to them. This is my experience.
                                              On Dec 5, 2013 1:43 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                                               
                                              Hi Bob,
                                               Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.
                                              If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make
                                               




                                            • RLB
                                              If everything goes as planned, this nut will file for an experimentation permit to distill Methanol, Acetone, Isopropyl,Ethanol, Butanol, and Water.  A
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Dec 24, 2013
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                                                If everything goes as planned, this nut will file for an experimentation permit to distill Methanol, Acetone, Isopropyl, Ethanol, Butanol, and Water.  A fracturing column would most likely work best in separating these chemicals out of alcohol, but I did say a TTB Experimentation Permit.

                                                In this world where most distillers need to keep one eye looking over their shoulder for the cops, there are legal ways to distill that will not lead to jail, fines, lose of property, or tax payments to the government.  It isn't as profitable as if you are selling moonshine, but it's very legal and tax free with proper permits and record keeping.  Once established, it's only a simple permit step away to producing almost pure ethanol for sales as spirits.  Sometimes genius is mistaken for iinsanity, and this should end this discussion for me.

                                                Robert


                                                From: joe giffen <joegiffen@...>
                                                To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 9:57 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                                                 

                                                The nuts are running the asylum!
                                                Joe


                                                On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 12:29, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                                 
                                                I was thinking pot in my warning, but I can see where butanol build up would be a nightmare for a large operation column.  To remove it would take a lot of steam vapor unless you had a smaller column that could be disassembled quickly.  It's just another reason for me to stay away from a column.  Thanks for bring up that point.

                                                Robert

                                              • Robert Hubble
                                                Ok, sanity check: (Jeez, I m outta town for one weekend, and the whole forum goes sideways!) First, the Scots, those lovable hairy men in skirts that make the
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Dec 24, 2013
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                                                  Ok, sanity check: (Jeez, I'm outta town for one weekend, and the whole forum goes sideways!)

                                                  First, the Scots, those lovable hairy men in skirts that make the finest whisky in the world, add back all head and tails to following still runs, in perpetuity. As an aside, I do, mostly, also.

                                                  Second, while I stir like a sumbitch while mashing grains, and I do punch down caps on many whole-fruit fermentations, just to prevent mold, I've never stirred a ferment in my life. It always looks like they stir themselves.

                                                  O' course, this just may be the butanol poisoning talking.

                                                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                                  From: prashant771@...
                                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 19:11:53 +0530
                                                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                                                   

                                                  Really.

                                                  On Dec 24, 2013 3:26 PM, "joe giffen" <joegiffen@...> wrote:
                                                   

                                                  WHAT!!!
                                                  Joe


                                                  On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 9:37, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                                                   
                                                  Don't don't don't!!! Don't add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the column than no one can strip it. It can only be removed by water boiling. And i am sure, no once wants to stop his/ her plant and do water boiling for 3-4 days as it will be a huge loss to them. This is my experience.
                                                  On Dec 5, 2013 1:43 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                                                   
                                                  Hi Bob,
                                                   Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.
                                                  If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make
                                                   




                                                • Dirck Donson
                                                  The fores and heads from the next run will remove the tails. ________________________________ From: Prashant Jha To:
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Dec 24, 2013
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                                                    The fores and heads from the next run will remove the tails.



                                                    From: Prashant Jha <prashant771@...>
                                                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:41 AM
                                                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol

                                                     
                                                    Really.
                                                    On Dec 24, 2013 3:26 PM, "joe giffen" <joegiffen@...> wrote:
                                                     
                                                    WHAT!!!
                                                    Joe


                                                    On Tuesday, 24 December 2013, 9:37, Prashant Jha <prashant771@...> wrote:
                                                     
                                                    Don't don't don't!!! Don't add tails back to the column because it will be deposited in the column or you can say sit in the column. And once it sits in the column than no one can strip it. It can only be removed by water boiling. And i am sure, no once wants to stop his/ her plant and do water boiling for 3-4 days as it will be a huge loss to them. This is my experience.
                                                    On Dec 5, 2013 1:43 PM, "jeffrey.burrows" <jeffrey.burrows@...> wrote:
                                                     
                                                    Hi Bob,
                                                     Long time since I’ve been on the forum Re. adding heads and tails back to the wash.  Didn’t Harry write about this a couple of years ago?  Although you think you have a high concentrate of let’s say nasties you also have a higher percentage of drinkable ethanol alcohol, still mixed in with the heads and tails.  Yet if you were to taste the heads and tails, all your taste buds would taste is the nasty stuff.
                                                    If you do your cuts properly i.e. at the right temperatures you will never get the nasties, only the pure ‘hearts’.  Now in order to get the aromas and flavours, and inadvertent headaches we want, we need to add some of the heads and tails back hence the best tasting cuts you make
                                                     




                                                  • edbar44
                                                    I ll certainly agree with that statement!!!
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Dec 25, 2013
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                                                      I'll certainly agree with that statement!!!

                                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dirck Donson <dirckdonson@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > The fores and heads from the next run will remove the tails.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ________________________________
                                                      > From: Prashant Jha <prashant771@...>
                                                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 7:41 AM
                                                      > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Warning: Butanol
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >  
                                                      > Really.
                                                      > On Dec 24, 2013 3:26 PM, "joe giffen" <joegiffen@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > > 
                                                      > >WHAT!!!
                                                      > >Joe
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