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Re: [Distillers] The origins of Wa's gin matrix document

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  • chris jude
    Where d you post it, Bob? chris
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 4, 2013
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      Where'd you post it, Bob?

      chris


      On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
       

      Wal,

      Yesterday I posted my heavily edited and amended version of your old gin recipe matrix document on Modern Distiller, in response to a query for gin recipes. People loved it, as I always have, and I was asked if anyone knew the source of the document. I said that I only knew that it had come from you, and that I would ask you what your source was, or if you had been the original author.

      While you're at it, if you were to re-post it here, I'm betting that all the people who haven't seen it would be delighted and amazed.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


    • Desross
      Is this it? Sorry this is so long, but I m including a great post from Waljaco on the Yahoo distillers group. After playing with this super-recipe, the
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 4, 2013
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        Is this it?

        Sorry this is so long, but I'm including a great post from Waljaco on the Yahoo distillers group. After playing with this super-recipe, the procedure I use it tacked onto the end. For spices and herbs, USers and Canuckians are referred to Penzey's Spice Company and Mountain Rose Herbs. They are both super.

        WALS GIN COMPENDIUM FROM SEVERAL YEARS AGO*******

        WITH BOB'S GIN EXTRACT RECIPE

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:

        I have also found the botanicals used for the French Citadelle Gin. 
        This 1771 recipe from Dunkirk has 19 botanicals which is the biggest 
        number among current gins.

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:

        Just found the botanicals for a Dutch gin - Van Gogh Gin.
        In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@h...> wrote:

        Msg 13359 has commercial gin recipes mainly from the 19th century. 

        This gives an idea of the botanicals and their quantity used With the aim of formulating a standard model 

        for gin botanical quantities for the homedistiller, here is a table of the botanicals 
        used in 10 modern gins:

        1)Tiger Gin
        2)Gordon's Distilled London Dry Gin
        3)Beefeater London Distilled Dry Gin
        4)Plymouth Gin
        5)Bombay Distilled London Dry Gin
        6)Bombay Sapphire Distilled London Dry Gin
        7)Mercury Gin
        8)Juniper Green London Dry Gin
        9)Van Gogh Gin (Holland)
        10)Citadelle Gin (France)

        Botanicals used-------Gin Brand (see above)
        ------------------------1---2---3----4---5----6----7----8---9---10---
        Juniper-------------yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-
        Coriander----------yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-
        Angelica root------yes-----yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-
        Cassia---------------yes-yes-yes-----yes-yes-yes------yes-yes-
        Cinnamon----------yes----------------------------------------yes-
        Liquorice-----------yes-----yes------yes-yes-yes------yes-yes-
        Bitter almonds-----------------------yes-yes-yes------yes-yes-
        Grains of Paradise------------------------yes-----------yes-yes-
        Cubeb berries-----------------------------yes-----------yes-yes-
        Bitter orange peel----------yes-----------------------------
        Sweet orange peel---yes----------yes----------yes---------yes-
        Lemon peel-----------yes-----yes-yes-yes-yes-yes-----yes-yes-
        Ginger-----------------yes---------------------------------
        Orris root-------------yes----------yes-yes-yes-yes-----yes-yes-
        Cardamon------------yes----------yes---------------------yes-
        Nutmeg---------------yes-yes------------------------------yes-
        Savory------------------------------------------yes-----yes-
        Calamus (sweet flag)----------------------------------------
        Chamomile---------------------------------------------------
        Violet root-------------------------------------------------yes-
        Cumin------------------------------------------------------yes-
        Aniseed----------------------------------------------------yes-
        Fennel seed-----------------------------------------------yes-


        The total amount of botanicals used is about 20-35 grams/litre.
        If we take the dominant botanical juniper as 'x', the proportions of the botanicals used is:

        x = juniper
        x/2 = coriander
        x/10 = angelica, cassia, cinnamon, liquorice, bitter almonds, grains of paradise, cubeb berries
        x/100 = bitter & sweet orange peel, lemon peel, ginger, orris root, cardamon, nutmeg, savory, calamus, 

        chamomile, fennel, aniseed, cumin, violet root.

        If we use x = 20g then x/2 = 10g, x/10 = 2g, x/100 = 0.2g (200mg)
        Some current gins do not have a pronounced juniper character as 
        they are used for cocktails and are more of a flavored vodka - for 
        this type of gin for 'x' use equal quantities for juniper & 
        coriander (i.e. x = 20g composed of 10g of juniper & 10g of 
        coriander)

        The botanical are macerated in 45%abv neutral alcohol (usually 
        for 24 hours), redistilled and then diluted to 42%abv which is an 
        optimal strength for holding the flavour of the botanicals. Only the 
        middle run (80-85%abv) is used to produce a high quality gin. 
        Plymouth Gin also comes in a 57%abv 'Navy Strength' and which is also 
        the British 100 proof strength.

        Bombay Sapphire Gin uses a Carterhead Still which contains a 
        botanicals basket through which the vapour passes, a technique which 
        gives a lighter flavour.

        All gins include juniper and coriander as an ingredient along 
        with other botanicals. Typically a fine gin contains 6-10 botanicals, 
        although the Dutch Damask Gin has 17, and the French Citadelle Gin 
        has 19 - but this could be more for marketing reasons and has been 
        criticised for lacking direction.

        Some American gins mention chamomile as a botanical which would 
        give a blue tinge to the gin.

        Botanical names:
        juniper - juniperis communis
        coriander - coriandrum sativum
        angelica - archangelica officinalis
        cassia - cinnamonum cassia
        cinnamon - cinnamonum zeylanicum
        liquorice - glycyrriza glabra
        bitter almond - prunus dulcis, amara
        grains of paradise - afromumum melegueta
        cubeb berries - piper cubeb
        bitter orange - citrus aurantium
        sweet orange - citrus sinensis
        lemon - citrus limon
        ginger - zinziber officinalis 
        orris root - iris florentina
        cardamon - elletaria cardamomum
        nutmeg - myristica fragrans
        savory - satureja hortensis
        calamus - acorus calamus
        chamomile - matricaria chamomilla
        violet root - viola odorata
        cumin - cuminum cyminum
        aniseed - pimpinella anisum
        fennel - foeniculum vulgare

        The usual mash for English gin is 75% maize, 15% barley malt and 
        10% other grains, although rectified spirit from molasses is also 
        used.

        Dutch gin originally was made from 1/3 malted barley and 2/3 rye 
        meal, although these days the proportions given is 1/3 malted barley, 
        1/3 rye, 1/3 maize.

        Wal 
        (Keep in mind the suggested formula has been based on published 
        material and not on experience.)


        BOB'S GIN EXTRACT#2

        In quart jar, put:

        Juniper, 1 level cup, 80 grams
        Coriander, heaping half cup, 44 grams
        Cinnamon, 4 grams (62 grains)
        Pepper cracked, .3 grams (5 grains)
        Lemon peel, .8 grams (12 grains) ~1 1/4" strip
        Cardamom pods, .8 grams (5 pods)

        Cover with 40% abv "vodka".

        Let stand 10 days. Distill in wee stovetop still until most of the flavor stops coming across (cinnamon 

        flavor will be last).

        Use one part distillate to 8 parts neutral EtOH, or vodka.



        On 5/04/2013, at 11:32 AM, chris jude <vegbenz300@...> wrote:

         

        Where'd you post it, Bob?

        chris


        On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
         

        Wal,

        Yesterday I posted my heavily edited and amended version of your old gin recipe matrix document on Modern Distiller, in response to a query for gin recipes. People loved it, as I always have, and I was asked if anyone knew the source of the document. I said that I only knew that it had come from you, and that I would ask you what your source was, or if you had been the original author.

        While you're at it, if you were to re-post it here, I'm betting that all the people who haven't seen it would be delighted and amazed.

        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


      • Des Ross
        this link is very informative as well http://homedistiller.org/flavor/gin ________________________________ From: chris jude To:
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 4, 2013
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          this link is very informative as well

          http://homedistiller.org/flavor/gin


          From: chris jude <vegbenz300@...>
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 5 April 2013 11:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [Distillers] The origins of Wa's gin matrix document

           
          Where'd you post it, Bob?

          chris


          On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
           
          Wal,

          Yesterday I posted my heavily edited and amended version of your old gin recipe matrix document on Modern Distiller, in response to a query for gin recipes. People loved it, as I always have, and I was asked if anyone knew the source of the document. I said that I only knew that it had come from you, and that I would ask you what your source was, or if you had been the original author.

          While you're at it, if you were to re-post it here, I'm betting that all the people who haven't seen it would be delighted and amazed.

          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits




        • tgfoitwoods
          Chris, Here - http://forum.moderndistiller.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1856 Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 4, 2013
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            Chris,

            Here - http://forum.moderndistiller.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1856

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, chris jude <vegbenz300@...> wrote:
            >
            > Where'd you post it, Bob?
            >
            > chris
            >
            >
            > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:25 AM, tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@... wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Wal,
            > >
            > > Yesterday I posted my heavily edited and amended version of your old gin
            > > recipe matrix document on Modern Distiller, in response to a query for gin
            > > recipes. People loved it, as I always have, and I was asked if anyone knew
            > > the source of the document. I said that I only knew that it had come from
            > > you, and that I would ask you what your source was, or if you had been the
            > > original author.
            > >
            > > While you're at it, if you were to re-post it here, I'm betting that all
            > > the people who haven't seen it would be delighted and amazed.
            > >
            > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller *Making Fine Spirits*<http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • tgfoitwoods
            Yes. I ve used it for so long, and edited it all the while, and shared it as much a it s needed, that it s kinda hard to tell exactly which version is last,
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 5, 2013
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              Yes.

              I've used it for so long, and edited it all the while, and shared it as much a it's needed, that it's kinda hard to tell exactly which version is last, but that sure looks like what I posted on Modern Distiller.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Desross <djross@...> wrote:
              >
              > Is this it?
              >
              > Sorry this is so long, but I'm including a great post from Waljaco on the Yahoo distillers group. After playing with this super-recipe, the procedure I use it tacked onto the end. For spices and herbs, USers and Canuckians are referred to Penzey's Spice Company and Mountain Rose Herbs. They are both super.
              >
              > WALS GIN COMPENDIUM FROM SEVERAL YEARS AGO*******
              >
              > WITH BOB'S GIN EXTRACT RECIPE
              ----snip----
            • waljaco
              Source? Lots of searching on product websites. wal
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 6, 2013
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                Source?
                Lots of searching on product websites.
                wal

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wal,
                >
                > Yesterday I posted my heavily edited and amended version of your old gin
                > recipe matrix document on Modern Distiller, in response to a query for
                > gin recipes. People loved it, as I always have, and I was asked if
                > anyone knew the source of the document. I said that I only knew that it
                > had come from you, and that I would ask you what your source was, or if
                > you had been the original author.
                >
                > While you're at it, if you were to re-post it here, I'm betting that all
                > the people who haven't seen it would be delighted and amazed.
                >
                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                > <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
                >
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