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Re: Making Rye Whiskey

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  • waljaco
    There is a 1937 text book - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/39360 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/44647 wal
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 28, 2013
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      There is a 1937 text book -
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/39360
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/44647

      wal

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jim,
      >
      > My 3-greats grandfather got himself in trouble in Pennsylvania (Berlin,
      > specifically, a rye-growing region, then) during the Whiskey Rebellion
      > by supporting the local distiller/farmers. Maybe we've got something in
      > our blood.
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "James" <gone2tx@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Rye whiskey seems to be making a comeback in the US. My grandfather
      > made and sold rye whiskey between 1895 and 1925 in Pennsylvania. I have
      > some of his handwritten notebooks but there is little detail about his
      > recipes. My research suggests that one should use about 70% rye, 25% rye
      > malt and 5% barley malt. It is also suggested that increasing the % of
      > malted rye will favorably increase the spirit flavor. My objective is to
      > try to recreate a rye whiskey similar to what my grandfather made.
      > >
      > > My questions are...
      > > 1) Can I use all malted rye?
      > From a purely theoretical standpoint,that should work fine, I'm thinking
      > mostly about starch conversion and fermentation, and not the mechanical
      > considerations we hear about rye
      >
      > I'm sure this will cost more than unmalted rye but I can buy it in bulk
      > at a good price and I am willing to pay extra to make a good rye
      > whiskey. Is there a limit to how much malted rye one can use? Is there
      > an advantage to using all malted rye?
      > > 2) Will 5% malted barley provide enough enzymes to convert the
      > starches to sugar or do I need to add additional enzymes.
      > Although I've never worked with rye, I just looked up its diastatic
      > power, which seems to be similar to barley malt, so no, 5% isn't enough
      > to convert all the starches.
      > http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue1.3/hayden\
      > .html
      > > 3) Does anyone have a better recipe for rye or a good source for
      > recipes?
      > >
      > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Cheers,
      > >
      > > Jim
      >
      > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
      > <http://www.kelleybarts.com/zymurgy-bob-books/making-fine-spirits/>
      >
      > >
      >
    • James Haller
      Thanks to Bob, Bluwater and Derek for your responses. The article on the issues with brewing with rye was an eye opener for me and will definitely affect my
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 28, 2013
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        Thanks to Bob, Bluwater and Derek for your responses. The article on the issues with brewing with rye was an "eye opener" for me and will definitely affect my brewing technique. It looks like I will need to mash with much more water than normal because of the thicker mixture. This means starting with less grain. I'll probably add a lot of rice hulls to help prevent a stuck sparge and expect to spend more time in the sparging cycle. The ph also looks like it is something to watch. Bottom line - I think I'll start with a very small batch to see if it works. If anyone finds the reference mentioned about grain bills for rye distillers, please post directions to find it. Thanks again. Gone2tx
      • waljaco
        Here is one - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/37265 wal
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 28, 2013
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          Here is one -

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/37265

          wal

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...> wrote:
          >
          > At 08:01 AM 3/27/2013, you wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >Jim,
          > >
          > >My 3-greats grandfather got himself in trouble in Pennsylvania
          > >(Berlin, specifically, a rye-growing region, then) during the
          > >Whiskey Rebellion by supporting the local distiller/farmers. Maybe
          > >we've got something in our blood.
          > >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "James" <gone2tx@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Rye whiskey seems to be making a comeback in the US. My
          > > grandfather made and sold rye whiskey between 1895 and 1925 in
          > > Pennsylvania. I have some of his handwritten notebooks but there is
          > > little detail about his recipes. My research suggests that one
          > > should use about 70% rye, 25% rye malt and 5% barley malt. It is
          > > also suggested that increasing the % of malted rye will favorably
          > > increase the spirit flavor. My objective is to try to recreate a
          > > rye whiskey similar to what my grandfather made.
          >
          > There used to be a document floating around that (I think) gave the
          > bills (%ages of content) for most of the major corn based whiskeys
          > and some ryes. I lost it somewhere during a computer blowup and
          > never found it again. Perhaps it is in the archives somewhere?
          >
          >
          >
          > Derek
          >
        • bluwater2828
          I purchase a brewers grade of flaked rye. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 28, 2013
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            I purchase a brewers grade of flaked rye.


            Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone


            From: Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@...>;
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
            Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 10:57:54 AM




             Is that 2lbs of malted RYE?


          • henry sangret
            I use a 70% 30% mix field rye and corn meal and prepare a 85 to 90 deg C water to soak in. I use a water that is modified with gypsum to add calcium to harden
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 28, 2013
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              I use a 70% 30% mix field rye and corn meal and prepare a 85 to 90 deg C water to soak in. I use a water that is modified with gypsum to add calcium to harden the water and add calcium for the starch conversion process. I use a cocktail of Alpha and Gluco Amalase Enzyme which breaks the starched down very nicely, but yes makes a very sticky glutinous wort. Prior to distillation I add a anti foaming agent that I get from one of the big suppliers and it does a great job of controlling the foaming problem. Of course you have a sticky end product after distillation but it cleans up OK with alot of water.  I use a 2 lb grain mix per gallon, which comes 1050 to 1060 sg. to much more grain makes a messy wort

              From: James Haller <gone2tx@...>
              To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:20 AM
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
               
              Thanks to Bob, Bluwater and Derek for your responses. The article on the issues with brewing with rye was an "eye opener" for me and will definitely affect my brewing technique. It looks like I will need to mash with much more water than normal because of the thicker mixture. This means starting with less grain. I'll probably add a lot of rice hulls to help prevent a stuck sparge and expect to spend more time in the sparging cycle. The ph also looks like it is something to watch. Bottom line - I think I'll start with a very small batch to see if it works. If anyone finds the reference mentioned about grain bills for rye distillers, please post directions to find it. Thanks again. Gone2tx
               
            • waljaco
              Another 2 - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/15000 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/21882 wal
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 29, 2013
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                Another 2 -

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/15000

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/21882

                wal

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                >
                > Here is one -
                >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/37265
                >
                > wal
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@> wrote:
                > >
                > > At 08:01 AM 3/27/2013, you wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >Jim,
                > > >
                > > >My 3-greats grandfather got himself in trouble in Pennsylvania
                > > >(Berlin, specifically, a rye-growing region, then) during the
                > > >Whiskey Rebellion by supporting the local distiller/farmers. Maybe
                > > >we've got something in our blood.
                > > >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "James" <gone2tx@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Rye whiskey seems to be making a comeback in the US. My
                > > > grandfather made and sold rye whiskey between 1895 and 1925 in
                > > > Pennsylvania. I have some of his handwritten notebooks but there is
                > > > little detail about his recipes. My research suggests that one
                > > > should use about 70% rye, 25% rye malt and 5% barley malt. It is
                > > > also suggested that increasing the % of malted rye will favorably
                > > > increase the spirit flavor. My objective is to try to recreate a
                > > > rye whiskey similar to what my grandfather made.
                > >
                > > There used to be a document floating around that (I think) gave the
                > > bills (%ages of content) for most of the major corn based whiskeys
                > > and some ryes. I lost it somewhere during a computer blowup and
                > > never found it again. Perhaps it is in the archives somewhere?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Derek
                > >
                >
              • bluwater2828
                I add citric acid to my water. I ve tried different ph and 5.8 to just a bit over 6 seems to work best. I hot mash my rye and barley. Grain only makes the best
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 29, 2013
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                  I add citric acid to my water. I've tried different ph and 5.8 to just a bit over 6 seems to work best. I hot mash my rye and barley. Grain only makes the best but a half grain half dextrose gives me a nicer easier time separating the wash as I just pour into cheese cloth and hand squeeze. I tried a bearing press and several other contraptions but never could get what I want... Did get some spectacular messes though lol. Some day I plan to try some sort of spin cycle setup. I usually look for about 15 to 20 gals of wash out of a 35 gal mash which is leaveing allot in but it's all I need. I use a whiskey yeast. My coloumb setup makes a mostly neutral distillate. Have tried many times to just pot still it but always ended up skunky .


                  Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone


                  From: henry sangret <henrysangret@...>;
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                  Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 7:38:03 PM



                  I use a 70% 30% mix field rye and corn meal and prepare a 85 to 90 deg C water to soak in. I use a water that is modified with gypsum to add calcium to harden the water and add calcium for the starch conversion process. I use a cocktail of Alpha and Gluco Amalase Enzyme which breaks the starched down very nicely, but yes makes a very sticky glutinous wort. Prior to distillation I add a anti foaming agent that I get from one of the big suppliers and it does a great job of controlling the foaming problem. Of course you have a sticky end product after distillation but it cleans up OK with alot of water.  I use a 2 lb grain mix per gallon, which comes 1050 to 1060 sg. to much more grain makes a messy wort

                  From: James Haller <gone2tx@...>
                  To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:20 AM
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                   
                  Thanks to Bob, Bluwater and Derek for your responses. The article on the issues with brewing with rye was an "eye opener" for me and will definitely affect my brewing technique. It looks like I will need to mash with much more water than normal because of the thicker mixture. This means starting with less grain. I'll probably add a lot of rice hulls to help prevent a stuck sparge and expect to spend more time in the sparging cycle. The ph also looks like it is something to watch. Bottom line - I think I'll start with a very small batch to see if it works. If anyone finds the reference mentioned about grain bills for rye distillers, please post directions to find it. Thanks again. Gone2tx
                   


                • Harry
                  ... I recently received this from a member (thanks Bill). A photocopy page from yhe old Seagrams Canada Distillery manual Good info. Wish I had more...
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 29, 2013
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Another 2 -
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/15000
                    >
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/21882
                    >
                    > wal
                    >

                     

                    I recently received this from a member (thanks Bill).

                    A photocopy page from yhe old Seagrams Canada Distillery manual
                    Good info.  Wish I had more...

                    Slainte!
                    regards Harry

                     

                    seagrams manual p48-49

                  • henry sangret
                    I ferment and distill on the grain like they all used to do.  Some grains like rye, corn, wheat and a few others are ok for a grain ferment.
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 29, 2013
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                      I ferment and distill on the grain like they all used to do.  Some grains like rye, corn, wheat and a few others are ok for a grain ferment.
                      From: "bluwater2828@..." <bluwater2828@...>
                      To: "henrysangret@..." <henrysangret@...>; "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 6:26 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                       
                      I add citric acid to my water. I've tried different ph and 5.8 to just a bit over 6 seems to work best. I hot mash my rye and barley. Grain only makes the best but a half grain half dextrose gives me a nicer easier time separating the wash as I just pour into cheese cloth and hand squeeze. I tried a bearing press and several other contraptions but never could get what I want... Did get some spectacular messes though lol. Some day I plan to try some sort of spin cycle setup. I usually look for about 15 to 20 gals of wash out of a 35 gal mash which is leaveing allot in but it's all I need. I use a whiskey yeast. My coloumb setup makes a mostly neutral distillate. Have tried many times to just pot still it but always ended up skunky .


                      Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone
                      From: henry sangret <henrysangret@...>;
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                      Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 7:38:03 PM


                      I use a 70% 30% mix field rye and corn meal and prepare a 85 to 90 deg C water to soak in. I use a water that is modified with gypsum to add calcium to harden the water and add calcium for the starch conversion process. I use a cocktail of Alpha and Gluco Amalase Enzyme which breaks the starched down very nicely, but yes makes a very sticky glutinous wort. Prior to distillation I add a anti foaming agent that I get from one of the big suppliers and it does a great job of controlling the foaming problem. Of course you have a sticky end product after distillation but it cleans up OK with alot of water.  I use a 2 lb grain mix per gallon, which comes 1050 to 1060 sg. to much more grain makes a messy wort
                      From: James Haller <gone2tx@...>
                      To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:20 AM
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                       
                      Thanks to Bob, Bluwater and Derek for your responses. The article on the issues with brewing with rye was an "eye opener" for me and will definitely affect my brewing technique. It looks like I will need to mash with much more water than normal because of the thicker mixture. This means starting with less grain. I'll probably add a lot of rice hulls to help prevent a stuck sparge and expect to spend more time in the sparging cycle. The ph also looks like it is something to watch. Bottom line - I think I'll start with a very small batch to see if it works. If anyone finds the reference mentioned about grain bills for rye distillers, please post directions to find it. Thanks again. Gone2tx
                       


                    • pint_o_shine
                      I sell beta-glucanase which will break the viscosity and increase the yield of rye based wort. It thins it enough to allow some sparging. enzymash.com
                      Message 10 of 17 , Mar 30, 2013
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                        I sell beta-glucanase which will break the viscosity and increase the yield of rye based wort. It thins it enough to allow some sparging.
                        enzymash.com

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, henry sangret <henrysangret@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I ferment and distill on the grain like they all used to do.  Some grains like rye, corn, wheat and a few others are ok for a grain ferment.
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: "bluwater2828@..." <bluwater2828@...>
                        > To: "henrysangret@..." <henrysangret@...>; "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2013 6:26 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        > I add citric acid to my water. I've tried different ph and 5.8 to just a bit over 6 seems to work best. I hot mash my rye and barley. Grain only makes the best but a half grain half dextrose gives me a nicer easier time separating the wash as I just pour into cheese cloth and hand squeeze. I tried a bearing press and several other contraptions but never could get what I want... Did get some spectacular messes though lol. Some day I plan to try some sort of spin cycle setup. I usually look for about 15 to 20 gals of wash out of a 35 gal mash which is leaveing allot in but it's all I need. I use a whiskey yeast. My coloumb setup makes a mostly neutral distillate. Have tried many times to just pot still it but always ended up skunky .
                        >
                        >
                        > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: henry sangret <henrysangret@...>;
                        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                        > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                        > Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2013 7:38:03 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I use a 70% 30% mix field rye and corn meal and prepare a 85 to 90 deg C water to soak in. I use a water that is modified with gypsum to add calcium to harden the water and add calcium for the starch conversion process. I use a cocktail of Alpha and Gluco Amalase Enzyme which breaks the starched down very nicely, but yes makes a very sticky glutinous wort. Prior to distillation I add a anti foaming agent that I get from one of the big suppliers and it does a great job of controlling the foaming problem. Of course you have a sticky end product after distillation but it cleans up OK with alot of water.  I use a 2 lb grain mix per gallon, which comes 1050 to 1060 sg. to much more grain makes a messy wort
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: James Haller <gone2tx@...>
                        > To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:20 AM
                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Making Rye Whiskey
                        >
                        >  
                        > Thanks to Bob, Bluwater and Derek for your responses. The article on the issues with brewing with rye was an "eye opener" for me and will definitely affect my brewing technique. It looks like I will need to mash with much more water than normal because of the thicker mixture. This means starting with less grain. I'll probably add a lot of rice hulls to help prevent a stuck sparge and expect to spend more time in the sparging cycle. The ph also looks like it is something to watch. Bottom line - I think I'll start with a very small batch to see if it works. If anyone finds the reference mentioned about grain bills for rye distillers, please post directions to find it. Thanks again. Gone2tx
                        >  
                        >
                      • James
                        Many thanks to all who posted a response to my questions. The goal of this posting, gathering good practical advise from experienced distillers on the best
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 4, 2013
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                          Many thanks to all who posted a response to my questions. The goal of this posting, gathering good practical advise from experienced distillers on the best methods for making rye, was met. I'll let you know in a few months how things turned out. Cheers, Jim

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Derek Hamlet <derekhamlet@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > At 08:01 AM 3/27/2013, you wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >Jim,
                          > >
                          > >My 3-greats grandfather got himself in trouble in Pennsylvania
                          > >(Berlin, specifically, a rye-growing region, then) during the
                          > >Whiskey Rebellion by supporting the local distiller/farmers. Maybe
                          > >we've got something in our blood.
                          > >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "James" <gone2tx@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Rye whiskey seems to be making a comeback in the US. My
                          > > grandfather made and sold rye whiskey between 1895 and 1925 in
                          > > Pennsylvania. I have some of his handwritten notebooks but there is
                          > > little detail about his recipes. My research suggests that one
                          > > should use about 70% rye, 25% rye malt and 5% barley malt. It is
                          > > also suggested that increasing the % of malted rye will favorably
                          > > increase the spirit flavor. My objective is to try to recreate a
                          > > rye whiskey similar to what my grandfather made.
                          >
                          > There used to be a document floating around that (I think) gave the
                          > bills (%ages of content) for most of the major corn based whiskeys
                          > and some ryes. I lost it somewhere during a computer blowup and
                          > never found it again. Perhaps it is in the archives somewhere?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Derek
                          >
                        • eyendall
                          I have been able to locate a copy of this Seagrams manual in a museum and have asked to have it photocopied. I have a copy of the table of contents which I can
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 8, 2013
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                            I have been able to locate a copy of this Seagrams manual in a museum and have asked to have it photocopied. I have a copy of the table of contents which I can post if someone walks me through uploading a file to the group.

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Another 2 -
                            > >
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/15000
                            > >
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/message/21882
                            > >
                            > > wal
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I recently received this from a member (thanks Bill).
                            >
                            > A photocopy page from yhe old Seagrams Canada Distillery manual
                            > Good info. Wish I had more...
                            >
                            > Slainte!
                            > regards Harry
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [seagrams manual p48-49]
                            >
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