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TTB Cuts

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  • last2blast
    I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US: http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf. Yes I
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 16, 2013
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      I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:

      http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.

      Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:

      How do you determine when to cut?
      – Temperature?
      – Smell?

      I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.

      This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.

      Robert
    • Becool Stayslinky
      Robert, There are some interesting tidbits in there, but without the oral presentation that went along with it, some of the content is ambiguous. I do think
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 17, 2013
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        Robert,

        There are some interesting tidbits in there, but without the oral presentation that went along with it, some of the content is ambiguous. I do think you may be jumping to the wrong conclusion about the TTB's opinion regarding taste and smell. ADI holds organoleptic training sessions at their annual conferences, and I doubt there is any process or instrumentation that can replace taste and smell in the production of spirits, vodka perhaps being the only exception, and then even the big boys have tasters for quality control.

        BC


        >
        > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
        >
        > How do you determine when to cut?
        > – Temperature?
        > – Smell?
        >
        > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
        >
        >
        >
      • RLB
        I saw a video on distillery tasters, but they were tasting whiskey after it had spent years in oak barrels and diluted to 80 proof.  Do big distillers really
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 17, 2013
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          I saw a video on distillery tasters, but they were tasting whiskey after it had spent years in oak barrels and diluted to 80 proof.  Do big distillers really sit there and taste test their product in a continuous flow system to determine cuts?  I don't know about them, but I am fairly hammered after sniffing my +70% abv distillate 20 times.

          Robert



          From: Becool Stayslinky <becoolstayslinky@...>
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 2:25 PM
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts

           
          Robert,

          There are some interesting tidbits in there, but without the oral presentation that went along with it, some of the content is ambiguous. I do think you may be jumping to the wrong conclusion about the TTB's opinion regarding taste and smell. ADI holds organoleptic training sessions at their annual conferences, and I doubt there is any process or instrumentation that can replace taste and smell in the production of spirits, vodka perhaps being the only exception, and then even the big boys have tasters for quality control.

          BC

        • tgfoitwoods
          Robert, In mass-produced industrial liquor distilling, I m sure the techno-stills are operated with tightly-controlled parameters, to get the same liquor
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 17, 2013
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            Robert,

            In mass-produced industrial liquor distilling, I'm sure the "techno-stills" are operated with tightly-controlled parameters, to get the same liquor consistently, but I know for certain that one of my favorite commercial distillers, Steve McCarthy at Clear Creek Distillers in Portland, has no instrumentation on his (3 or 4) stills, and make all cuts by nose and taste. Of course, he does mostly fruit brandies and eaux-de-vie, where each batch of fruit can be different, so his nosing is vital.

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
            >
            > I saw a video on distillery tasters, but they were tasting whiskey after it had spent years in oak barrels and diluted to 80 proof.  Do big distillers really sit there and taste test their product in a continuous flow system to determine cuts?  I don't know about them, but I am fairly hammered after sniffing my +70% abv distillate 20 times.
            >
            > Robert
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Becool Stayslinky becoolstayslinky@...
            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 2:25 PM
            > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
            >
            >
            >  
            > Robert,
            >
            > There are some interesting tidbits in there, but without the oral presentation that went along with it, some of the content is ambiguous. I do think you may be jumping to the wrong conclusion about the TTB's opinion regarding taste and smell. ADI holds organoleptic training sessions at their annual conferences, and I doubt there is any process or instrumentation that can replace taste and smell in the production of spirits, vodka perhaps being the only exception, and then even the big boys have tasters for quality control.
            >
            > BC
            >
          • girlguidebiscuit
            In all those television cooking programmes, even top chefs like Ramsay and Oliver etc, the emphasis is constantly on taste. Anyone who doesn t taste his
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 17, 2013
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              In all those television cooking programmes, even top chefs like Ramsay and Oliver etc, the emphasis is constantly on taste. Anyone who doesn't taste his product gets a roasting. It's plain commonsense.
            • Dale Brinley
              This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I ve been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.


                From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts

                 
                I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:

                http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.

                Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:

                How do you determine when to cut?
                – Temperature?
                – Smell?

                I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.

                This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.

                Robert



              • joe giffen
                I can t believe this! Regards Joe ________________________________ From: Dale Brinley To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                  I can't believe this!
                   
                  Regards
                  Joe
                  From: Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...>
                  To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, 18 March 2013, 14:45
                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                   
                  This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.

                  From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                  Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                   
                  I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US: http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf. Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states: How do you determine when to cut? – Temperature? – Smell? I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell. This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day. Robert
                • tgfoitwoods
                  Dale, For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I m not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails. With regards
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                    Dale,

                    For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

                    With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

                    http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

                    http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf

                    So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

                    As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

                    Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!

                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote
                    > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: last2blast last2blast@...
                    > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                    > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                    >
                    > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                    >
                    > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                    >
                    > How do you determine when to cut?
                    > â€" Temperature?
                    > â€" Smell?
                    >
                    > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
                    >
                    > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                    >
                    > Robert
                    >
                  • White Bear
                    Good answer ZBob -  The only thing I can add to this is, learn to make your cuts, 1.    Foreshots - Lowend alcohols, really bad for you 2.    Heads -
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                      Good answer ZBob -
                       The only thing I can add to this is, learn to make your cuts,
                      1.    Foreshots - Lowend alcohols, really bad for you
                      2.    Heads - includes some of the foreshote and flavor
                      3.    Hearts - ethanol you want for drinking
                      4.    Tails - Highend alcohols, some flavor, mostly water and nasty tasting alcohol
                      Learn, learn, learn - you may have just gotten lucky but why risk drinking Methanol.
                      WB
                       
                       
                       

                      From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
                       
                      Dale,

                      For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

                      With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

                      http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

                      http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf

                      So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

                      As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

                      Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!

                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks
                      for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote
                      > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: last2blast last2blast@...
                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                      > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                      >
                      > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                      >
                      > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                      >
                      > How do you determine when to cut?
                      > â€" Temperature?
                      > â€" Smell?
                      >
                      > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste
                      and smell.
                      >
                      > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                      >
                      > Robert
                      >
                    • tgfoitwoods
                      Joe, It scared the hell out of me, too. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                        Joe,

                        It scared the hell out of me, too.

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, joe giffen <joegiffen@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I can't believe this!
                        >
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > Joe
                        >
                        >
                        ----snip----
                      • Bill Rogers
                        darwinism at it s best? related Bad Hooch Kills 102 in Calcutta http://www.newser.com/story/135450/bad-hooch-kills-102-in-calcutta.html ... darwinism at it s
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                          darwinism at it's best?

                          related

                          Bad Hooch Kills 102 in Calcutta






                          On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 1:34 PM, tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                           

                          Dale,

                          For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

                          With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

                          http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

                          http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf

                          So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

                          As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

                          Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!



                          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote
                          > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: last2blast last2blast@...

                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                          > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                          >
                          > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                          >
                          > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                          >
                          > How do you determine when to cut?
                          > â€" Temperature?
                          > â€" Smell?

                          >
                          > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
                          >
                          > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                          >
                          > Robert
                          >


                        • Dale Brinley
                          Thanks for the info, I don t add methanol to my liquor.   I guess I didn t word my response very well.  I ordered your book, by the way.  Still waiting for
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                            Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.   I guess I didn't word my response very well.  I ordered your book, by the way.  Still waiting for it. 



                            From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
                            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM
                            Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts

                             
                            Dale,

                            For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

                            With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

                            http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

                            http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf

                            So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

                            As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

                            Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!

                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks
                            for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote
                            > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: last2blast last2blast@...
                            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                            > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                            >
                            > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                            >
                            > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                            >
                            > How do you determine when to cut?
                            > â€" Temperature?
                            > â€" Smell?
                            >
                            > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste
                            and smell.
                            >
                            > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                            >
                            > Robert
                            >


                          • tgfoitwoods
                            Dale, Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I ve gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don t see your
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 18, 2013
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                              Dale,

                              Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.

                              Please let me know.

                              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.   I guess I didn't word my response very well.  I ordered your book, by the way.  Still waiting for it. 
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...
                              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM
                              > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              > Dale,
                              >
                              > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.
                              >
                              > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.
                              >
                              > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm
                              >
                              > http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf
                              >
                              > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.
                              >
                              > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).
                              >
                              > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!
                              >
                              > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that
                              > ethanol is an antidote
                              > > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > From: last2blast last2blast@
                              > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                              > > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >  
                              > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                              > >
                              > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                              > >
                              > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                              > >
                              > > How do you determine when to cut?
                              > > â€" Temperature?
                              > > â€" Smell?
                              > >
                              > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
                              > >
                              > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                              > >
                              > > Robert
                              > >
                              >
                            • waljaco
                              Methanol can make you blind and even kill. Propanol will give you a headache. wal
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 19, 2013
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                                Methanol can make you blind and even kill. Propanol will give you a headache.
                                wal

                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote
                                > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
                                > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                                > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                                >
                                > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                                >
                                > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                                >
                                > How do you determine when to cut?
                                > â€" Temperature?
                                > â€" Smell?
                                >
                                > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
                                >
                                > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                                >
                                > Robert
                                >
                              • Dale Brinley
                                Amazon, the order says it has shipped.  Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify.  In my short description, I omitted
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 19, 2013
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                                  Amazon, the order says it has shipped.  Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify.  In my short description, I omitted some steps.  Such as triple distilling and passing through a charcoal filter.  Along with previous cutting of the fore shots.  Perhaps my mistake was making some tongue in cheek comments.  I know the dangers of methanol and all the other nasty things that come in the fore shots. What I didn't count on was all the vitriolic comments.  I'm sure everyone is aware that there are infinite numbers of ways to enhance or detract from the flavor.  I know enough to stay away from those things that are unsafe.  So, to all those with constructive comments, thanks.  To those who only had negative comments against me personally, lighten up.  Don't take yourself so seriously. 



                                  From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:34 PM
                                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts

                                   
                                  Dale,

                                  Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.

                                  Please let me know.

                                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.   I guess I didn't word my response very well.  I ordered your book, by the way.  Still waiting for it. 
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...
                                  > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM
                                  > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Dale,
                                  >
                                  > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.
                                  >
                                  > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.
                                  >
                                  > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm
                                  >
                                  > http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf
                                  >
                                  > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.
                                  >
                                  > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).
                                  >
                                  > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!
                                  >
                                  > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that
                                  > ethanol is an antidote
                                  > > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: last2blast last2blast@
                                  > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                                  > > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                                  > >
                                  > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                                  > >
                                  > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                                  > >
                                  > > How do you determine when to cut?
                                  > > â€" Temperature?
                                  > > â€" Smell?
                                  > >
                                  > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
                                  > >
                                  > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                                  > >
                                  > > Robert
                                  > >
                                  >


                                • tgfoitwoods
                                  Dale, Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We d all be horrified to
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 19, 2013
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                                    Dale,

                                    Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We'd all be horrified to have one of ours come to harm.

                                    As for the book, I see now that Powell's is now also selling my book through Amazon, which gives us three possibilities. Either you bought my book from Powell's, or you bought Kelley B Arts using a name other than Dale Brinley, or we have a problem. Let me know, please.

                                    Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Amazon, the order says it has shipped.  Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify.  In my short description, I omitted some steps.  Such as triple distilling and passing through a charcoal filter.  Along with previous cutting of the fore shots.  Perhaps my mistake was making some tongue in cheek comments.  I know the dangers of methanol and all the other nasty things that come in the fore shots. What I didn't count on was all the vitriolic comments.  I'm sure everyone is aware that there are infinite numbers of ways to enhance or detract from the flavor.  I know enough to stay away from those things that are unsafe.  So, to all those with constructive comments, thanks.  To those who only had negative comments against me personally, lighten up.  Don't take yourself so seriously. 
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...
                                    > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:34 PM
                                    > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > Dale,
                                    >
                                    > Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.
                                    >
                                    > Please let me know.
                                    >
                                    > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstillerMaking Fine Spirits
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.   I guess I didn't word my response very well.  I ordered your book, by the way.  Still waiting for it. 
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ________________________________
                                    > > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@
                                    > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM
                                    > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >  
                                    > > Dale,
                                    > >
                                    > > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.
                                    > >
                                    > > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.
                                    > >
                                    > > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf
                                    > >
                                    > > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.
                                    > >
                                    > > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).
                                    > >
                                    > > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amylalchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!
                                    > >
                                    > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is
                                    > poison, which is true, but that
                                    > > ethanol is an antidote
                                    > > > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ________________________________
                                    > > > From: last2blast last2blast@
                                    > > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                                    > > > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >  
                                    > > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > How do you determine when to cut?
                                    > > > â€" Temperature?
                                    > > > â€" Smell?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Robert
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • RLB
                                    He might have purchased a used book. Robert ________________________________ From: tgfoitwoods To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 19, 2013
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                                      He might have purchased a used book.

                                      Robert


                                      From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
                                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 9:53 AM
                                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts

                                       
                                      Dale,

                                      Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We'd all be horrified to have one of ours come to harm.

                                      As for the book, I see now that Powell's is now also selling my book through Amazon, which gives us three possibilities. Either you bought my book from Powell's, or you bought Kelley B Arts using a name other than Dale Brinley, or we have a problem. Let me know, please.

                                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                                    • Dale Brinley
                                      You re right, it was sold by Powell s. Bought in my name.  Est. delivery 3/15 - 4/01.  Should be arriving any day now. ________________________________ From:
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 19, 2013
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                                        You're right, it was sold by Powell's. Bought in my name.  Est. delivery 3/15 - 4/01.  Should be arriving any day now.



                                        From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
                                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:53 AM
                                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts

                                         
                                        Dale,

                                        Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We'd all be horrified to have one of ours come to harm.

                                        As for the book, I see now that Powell's is now also selling my book through Amazon, which gives us three possibilities. Either you bought my book from Powell's, or you bought Kelley B Arts using a name other than Dale Brinley, or we have a problem. Let me know, please.

                                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Amazon, the order says it has shipped.  Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify.  In my short description, I omitted some steps.  Such as triple distilling and passing through a charcoal filter.  Along with previous cutting of the fore shots.  Perhaps my mistake was making some tongue in cheek comments.  I know the dangers of methanol and all the other nasty things that come in the fore shots. What I didn't count on was all the vitriolic comments.  I'm sure everyone is aware that there are infinite numbers of ways to enhance or detract from the flavor.  I know enough to stay away from those things that are unsafe.  So, to all those with constructive comments, thanks.  To those who only had negative comments against me personally, lighten up.  Don't take yourself so seriously. 
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...
                                        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:34 PM
                                        > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        > Dale,
                                        >
                                        > Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.
                                        >
                                        > Please let me know.
                                        >
                                        > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstillerMaking Fine Spirits
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.   I guess I didn't word my response very well.  I ordered your book, by the way.  Still waiting for it. 
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ________________________________
                                        > > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@
                                        > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM
                                        > > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >  
                                        > > Dale,
                                        > >
                                        > > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.
                                        > >
                                        > > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.
                                        > >
                                        > > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm
                                        > >
                                        > > http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf
                                        > >
                                        > > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.
                                        > >
                                        > > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).
                                        > >
                                        > > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amylalchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!
                                        > >
                                        > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This is my first reply and response to this group.  So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty  drink using my son as a taster.  His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".  My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.  The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.  I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.  Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is
                                        > poison, which is true, but that
                                        > > ethanol is an antidote
                                        > > > for methanol poisoning.  Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ________________________________
                                        > > > From: last2blast last2blast@
                                        > > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
                                        > > > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >  
                                        > > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > How do you determine when to cut?
                                        > > > â€" Temperature?
                                        > > > â€" Smell?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Robert
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >


                                      • tgfoitwoods
                                        Thanks, Dale, I can relax now. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits ...
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 19, 2013
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                                          Thanks, Dale,

                                          I can relax now.

                                          Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

                                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > You're right, it was sold by Powell's. Bought in my name.  Est. delivery 3/15 - 4/01.  Should be arriving any day now.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          ----snip----
                                        • Angelis
                                          I m trying to make a coil out of 3/8 tubing to fit into a 2 inch pipe but don t think I can get it to it. Can I use 1/4 in or is that too small? Michael ...
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 19, 2013
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                                            I'm trying to make a coil out of 3/8 tubing to fit into a 2 inch pipe but don't think I can get it to it. Can I use 1/4 in or is that too small? 

                                            Michael 

                                            On Mar 19, 2013, at 8:35 PM, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:

                                             

                                            Thanks, Dale,

                                            I can relax now.

                                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > You're right, it was sold by Powell's. Bought in my name.  Est. delivery 3/15 - 4/01.  Should be arriving any day now.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            ----snip----

                                          • jsducote
                                            Do you mean that you re having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2 pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 20, 2013
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                                              Do you mean that you're having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2" pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to 2"? The water jacket pipe will not come into contact with your wash/distillate, so you can use any material. PVC is readily available in much larger diams.
                                              -j

                                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Angelis <angelis1972@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I'm trying to make a coil out of 3/8 tubing to fit into a 2 inch pipe but don't think I can get it to it. Can I use 1/4 in or is that too small?
                                              >
                                              > Michael
                                            • Angelis
                                              Didn t even think about using PVC. Was not sure how it would hold up Michael
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 20, 2013
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                                                Didn't even think about using PVC. Was not sure how it would hold up

                                                Michael 

                                                On Mar 20, 2013, at 10:46 AM, "jsducote" <forlorntexan@...> wrote:

                                                 

                                                Do you mean that you're having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2" pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to 2"? The water jacket pipe will not come into contact with your wash/distillate, so you can use any material. PVC is readily available in much larger diams.
                                                -j

                                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Angelis <angelis1972@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I'm trying to make a coil out of 3/8 tubing to fit into a 2 inch pipe but don't think I can get it to it. Can I use 1/4 in or is that too small?
                                                >
                                                > Michael

                                              • girlguidebiscuit
                                                This pdf will help you. It helped me. http://homedistiller.org/forum/download/file.php?id=20214   Do you mean that you re having trouble winding the coil
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 20, 2013
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                                                  This pdf will help you. It helped me. http://homedistiller.org/forum/download/file.php?id=20214


                                                   

                                                  Do you mean that you're having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2" pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to 2"? The water jacket pipe will not come into contact with your wash/distillate, so you can use any material. PVC is readily available in much larger diams.
                                                  -j
                                                  _._,___

                                                • RLB
                                                  Be very careful.  Water and steam will be 200+ and plastic melts 250 to 285, so a nick might cause a leak in that soft plastic. Robert
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 20, 2013
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                                                    Be very careful.  Water and steam will be 200+ and plastic melts 250 to 285, so a nick might cause a leak in that soft plastic.

                                                    Robert


                                                    From: Angelis <angelis1972@...>
                                                    To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:42 PM
                                                    Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts

                                                     
                                                    Didn't even think about using PVC. Was not sure how it would hold up

                                                    Michael 


                                                  • doug.hood
                                                    I made a condenser using 1/4 inch copper. To keep it from kinking, I bought the copper in a coil, unrolled it, taped one end and filled it with salt. I then
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 20, 2013
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                                                      I made a condenser using 1/4 inch copper. To keep it from kinking, I bought the copper in a coil, unrolled it, taped one end and filled it with salt. I then wrapped it around a pipe, the notched a bigger pipe, slid the bigger pipe over my inside coil and wrapped it back the other way. I then flared on the connections and hooked it up to the water hose. It took about three hours to sit there under pressure before it dissolved the salt and shot a stream of water out the other side. I came out nice, fits inside my 2" still and works well.
                                                      Doug

                                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Angelis <angelis1972@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > I'm trying to make a coil out of 3/8 tubing to fit into a 2 inch pipe but don't think I can get it to it. Can I use 1/4 in or is that too small?
                                                      >
                                                      > Michael
                                                      >
                                                      > On Mar 19, 2013, at 8:35 PM, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > Thanks, Dale,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I can relax now.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > You're right, it was sold by Powell's. Bought in my name. Est. delivery 3/15 - 4/01. Should be arriving any day now.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > ----snip----
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • jsducote
                                                      According to plasticpipe.org, the maximum suggested temperature for PVC is 150F, while max temp for CPVC & PEX is 210F. But unless I m envisaging the usage
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Mar 21, 2013
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                                                        According to plasticpipe.org, the maximum suggested temperature for PVC is 150F, while max temp for CPVC & PEX is 210F. But unless I'm envisaging the usage incorrectly, this is for a cooling jacket around the condenser line, not the condenser itself. Do your coolants reach either of those temps? The only point to worry about might be where the condenser enters the jacket, but that could be made with a rubber or cork bung instead of directly touching the jacket end-cap.
                                                        -j

                                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Be very careful.  Water and steam will be 200+ and plastic melts 250 to 285, so a nick might cause a leak in that soft plastic.
                                                        >
                                                        > Robert
                                                        > ________________________________
                                                        > From: Angelis <angelis1972@...>
                                                        >  
                                                        > Didn't even think about using PVC. Was not sure how it would hold up
                                                        >
                                                        > Michael
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