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Re: [Distillers] Re: Flash Distillation

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  • Fredrick Lee
    ... Robert, that s where you are incorrect, alcohol is miscible in water and what you are trying to do is mechanically induce two discrete phase changes.
    Message 1 of 43 , Mar 10, 2013
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      If I am correct, pumping room temperature wash into a heated chamber should be a enough of a shock to cause the separation of alcohol and water


      Robert, that's where you are incorrect, alcohol is miscible in water and what you are trying to do is mechanically induce two discrete phase changes. 


      image.png

      Because alcohol/water mix is azeotropic, it won't ever do what you suspect it will.  

      Read the Wikipedia article on azeotrope, it will explain this phenomenon.  






      On Mar 10, 2013, at 11:01 AM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:

       

      Zbob:

      Ah, I see that you made the same mistakes as me with my first few searches involving flash distillation.  After my first few searches, I determined that it might not be possible to do it either.    You may want to take a closer look at equilibrium and separation of 2 liquids with different boiling points because there was a great deal of information involving separation of alcohol and water.  I am not a Chemist or Engineer, but it sounded reasonably simple and in line with my thoughts and plans.

      Yes, it is very true that flash distillation is used by 85 % of all desalination plants in our world, and it is true that flash distillation is used to quickly separate water from solids.

      You may have over looked that part where I will use a spray nozzle to turn wash into small droplet and expose those small droplet to heat that is below the boiling point of water.

      From my understanding of my reading, you are trying to shock a liquid with an higher boiling point into releasing molecules of liquid with a lower boiling point.  If I am correct, pumping room temperature wash into a heated chamber should be a enough of a shock to cause the separation of alcohol and water.  Now the difficult part will be in finding the right parts at a junk yard to build a heat chamber.  Finding a nozzle that can handle high temperature was fairly simple. 

      Keep reading.

      Robert




      From: tgfoitwoods <zymurgybob@...>
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 4:02 AM
      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Flash Distillation

       
      Ok, I had to read up on flash distillation to be certain that I understood it, but mostly what I found was flash evaporation of a mixture of a volatile liquid and a non-volatile solid, as in a water desalinization plant. In that case all of the volatile liquid is vaporized and re-condensed as product, while the non-volatile dissolved solids remain in the flash chamber.

      As beverage distillers, we are trying to change the relative concentration of a mixture of volatile liquids, especially to increase the concentration of ethanol, and only incidentally leaving the solids behind.

      Unless I'm terribly mistaken, when you "flash" a quantity of a mixture of volatile liquids, you vaporize all of that quantity, and aside from some loss of solids, the concentrations of the volatile liquids going out to be condensed should be identical to the concentrations going in, which would be useless to us as beverage distiller.

      Robert, it sounds like you are saying that so long as you hold the flash temperature below the boiling point of water at that pressure, the ethanol will vaporize and the water won't, and that puts us back in the realm of believing that a mixture of volatile liquids has multiple boiling points, that by controlling temperature we can control which volatile liquids vaporize, and which don't. That's just not true and never has been, although it's often cherished by new distillers.

      The simple immutable truth is that such a mixture has one single boiling point at a specific pressure. If you hold the temperature below that, you'll get relatively slow evaporation of ALL volatile compounds, in a ratio determined by Roualt's law of partial vapor presures. If you get the temperature to that single boiling point, and keep inputting the latent heat of evaporation, you'll get relatively quick evaporationf all volatile compounds, again in that same ratio determined by Roualt's law of partial vapor pressures.

      I don't see any method utilizing flash evaporation that lets us increase the the ethanol concentration, even though it's great for de-salinization of sea water. Am I missing something?

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits


    • RLB
      I just wanted to tell someone since I dropped the flash distillation subject on Distillers. I figured out how to use it for stripping, and how to use it for
      Message 43 of 43 , Mar 14, 2013
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        I just wanted to tell someone since I dropped the flash distillation subject on Distillers.

        I figured out how to use it for stripping, and how to use it for making cuts.  It will cost around $1,000 to build though.  Now the subject is officially dead for me.

        Robert  



        From: "Distillers-owner@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers-owner@yahoogroups.com>
        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 9:40 PM
        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Flash Distillation

         
        Message from Management to "last2blast"

        Your posting privileges have been demoted to "moderated".
        Reason:
          Due to excessive badgering by you of both the Y!D forums, re your "new distilling idea".
        Whether it works or not, isn't the issue.
        Harassment is the issue.  Harping on unfounded and untested notions is the issue.
        You've had more than a fair hearing in BOTH groups.  Now it's time for you to "put up, or shut up".  When you are ready with the results, post 'em. Mods will see if you're contributing to the distilling topic, or just continuing to blow steam.  Your post will be dealt with on that score.
        Footnote:
        Part of The Charter for this group states...
        "It is a 'given' that you are familiar with basic distilling."
        I strongly urge you to get educated re Distillation before you continue.  Else you're gonna do yourself a mischief.
         

        The Management
         
        PS for other posters.
          Kindly trim out all the unnecessary previous posts when sending messages to these Distilling groups.  Help us to help you.


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