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Re: Aged dunder fermentation

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  • mav
    Hi Chris, this the second time I m doing this so I won t rave on, Just read what Harry said to Trid.. ... quite got ... the dunder to ... to the ...
    Message 1 of 31 , Feb 11, 2013
      Hi Chris, this the second time I'm doing this so I won't rave on, Just read what Harry said to Trid..

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
      >
      > You know...in all the discussions that have come and gone, I never
      quite got
      > this one right. The whole time, my brain processed it as adding
      the dunder to
      > subsequent wash (like one would add backset to sour mash), and not
      to the
      > spirit run.

      .........You aren't wrong, Trid. That's also done (or at least it
      was in days of yore). It uses up the stillage while retaining any
      flavinoids. I find it more useful in the spirit still (you'll see
      why later in this post).

      But I would hesitate in using that backset comparison. That implies
      it will readily start up a fermentation. It can, but not like the
      vigorous ferments we are used to. If you added the dunder in one go
      at the start, your ferment wouldn't start at all! Well not without
      a HUGE boost with yeast.

      The old step-ferment process requires that only 10% of the final
      volume of dunder be added AT THE START. Then when fermentation is
      firmly and vigorously established, more molasses, sugar & dunder can
      be added, the TOTAL dunder coming up to as much as 50% of the TOTAL
      volume of the fermentation.

      The way I do it, I don't step-feed. I set it up with 10 litres
      molasses, 20 litres hot water (mix with the molasses & stand
      overnight). Next day, pour this into the fermenter, leaving any
      settled sludge behind. Add 20 litres of dunder, some B vitamin for
      good measure, lemon juice and yeast. I use a LOT of yeast, 300gms
      of dried bakers yeast granules (rehydrated).

      Of course there are many people who don't like to mess with
      molasses. You can always use raw or brown sugar instead (not
      white). It makes an acceptable rum, just not as heavily flavoured
      as molasses rum. If making sugar rum, add lots of yeast. According
      to Wright in Distillation & Denaturing, 1907: pp 167-168 (193-194),
      you can use between 2.7% and 8% of the sugar weight if using
      compressed yeast. In a 50 litre ferment using 10kg sugar, that
      would be 270g to 8oog. Sounds like a lot, but low-yield, fast
      ferments are better for sugar rums.

      > Can you give me a quick reminder of the recommended proportion of
      dunder to
      > low-wines for the spirit run?

      ...........It's all personal preference. But as a starter, try 1/3
      dunder, 1/3 feints & 1/3 low wines. Then adjust the dunder/feints
      portion up/down in future runnings according to your tastes.

      What you're doing is using the dunder in place of water. This has
      the two-fold effect of adding concentrated flavours, and reducing
      the still charge alcohol percentage to a safe and easily processable
      level (said you'd see why later).
      Look at it this way. Feints are ~30% abv, low wines ~50-60% abv,
      dunder ~1-10% abv. At the suggested proportions, your combined
      still charge will be ~40-43% abv. That won't easily burn in the
      event of an accident, and low percentage wash processes more readily
      because there are fewer water/ethanol molecular bonds to break
      (science is weird). It's all good for the end result. :)

      Slainte!
      regards Harry


      <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


      Cheers
      Marc

      Ps, Having some sips of some Appleton clone rum I made last year:)

      PSS, no dout you will have more questions, that's ok.



      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Chris Jude wrote:
      >
      > reviving an old dead thread.
      >
      > I've got several quarts of first run sorghum distillate run by a friend who
      > made no cuts, just gave me the whole run. I want to run it through again
      > to clean it up and remove the feints and the 35-50% cuts per Arroyo's
      > method. I've got some fresh sorghum runs that I save the backset and the
      > rum oil cuts. When doing this distillate run, could I dillute the liquor
      > with the dunder for extra flavor, or should I cut it 50% with pure water?
      >
      > thanks,
      >
      > chris
      >
      >
      > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Alex Castillo
      > wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > **
      > >
      > > *Gavin,*
      > >
      > > *Begin with dunder/water 50/50 (i.e. 10 liters water + 10 liters
      > > dunder) adding your molasses (i.e. 1 gallon), DAP (i.e. 1 Tbsp), citric
      > > acid (i.e. 1 Tbsp) and yeast (1/4 cup - 1 cup, hydrated or sprinkled on
      > > top, then mix).*
      > >
      > > *I suggest you to begin with bread yeast, since is inexpensive. With
      > > time you may even go all dunder.*
      > >
      > > *Oxygenate/aireate well (i.e. aquarium pump 1-2 hours).*
      > >
      > > *Alternatively (instead of using dunder) would be interesting to try
      > > bacterial cultures (bretts, lactic, etc.) as secondary fermentations, or
      > > even dumping the yogurt after the primary fermentation to create the dunder
      > > efect "in situ", lol. There´s plenty room for experimentation. I like
      > > that!*
      > >
      > > *Please let us know how it went in your Jamaican craft, Gavin-rum!, lol*
      > >
      > > *Have fun...and keep it safe!*
      > >
      > > *Alex*
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Carlos alberto Sanchez
      yo soy un verdadero milagro de la vida ________________________________ De: Chris Jude Para: Distillers@yahoogroups.com Enviado:
      Message 31 of 31 , Feb 22, 2013
        yo soy un verdadero milagro de la vida


        De: Chris Jude <vegbenz300@...>
        Para: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Enviado: domingo, 10 de febrero de 2013 20:19
        Asunto: Re: [Distillers] Re: Aged dunder fermentation

         
        reviving an old dead thread.

        I've got several quarts of first run sorghum distillate run by a friend who made no cuts, just gave me the whole run.  I want to run it through again to clean it up and remove the feints and the 35-50% cuts per Arroyo's method.  I've got some fresh sorghum runs that I save the backset and the rum oil cuts.  When doing this distillate run, could I dillute the liquor with the dunder for extra flavor, or should I cut it 50% with pure water?

        thanks,

        chris


        On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Alex Castillo <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
         
         
        Gavin,
        Begin with dunder/water 50/50 (i.e. 10 liters water + 10 liters dunder) adding your molasses (i.e. 1 gallon), DAP (i.e. 1 Tbsp), citric acid (i.e. 1 Tbsp) and yeast (1/4 cup - 1 cup, hydrated or sprinkled on top, then mix).
        I suggest you to begin with bread yeast, since is inexpensive.  With time you may even go all dunder.
        Oxygenate/aireate well (i.e. aquarium pump 1-2 hours).
        Alternatively (instead of using dunder) would be interesting to try bacterial cultures (bretts, lactic, etc.) as secondary fermentations, or even dumping the yogurt after the primary fermentation to create the dunder efect "in situ", lol.  There´s plenty room for experimentation.  I like that!
        Please let us know how it went in your Jamaican craft, Gavin-rum!, lol
        Have fun...and keep it safe!
        Alex



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