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Re: Too smooth?

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  • David Eastham
    Robbie After initial stripping run I ended up with 9 litres of 38% ethanol. From this I got 510ml heads, 2.28 litres middles and stopped after 750ml tails
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 28, 2012
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      Robbie

      After initial stripping run I ended up with 9 litres of 38% ethanol. From this I got 510ml heads, 2.28 litres middles and stopped after 750ml tails collected (880ml theoretical amount)This adds up to 3.54 litres of 93% spirit, approx 14% heads, 62% middles and 24% tails.This was from a wash of 27 litres with 6.5kg sugar. Theoretical alcohol from the initial sg of 1.09 to final sg of 1.0 gives 12.2% alcohol in the initial wash (this equates to 12.2/100x27 = 3.29l of 100% or 3.54 litres of 93% ethanol)
      Cheers
      Dave E





      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robbie Mabry <robbie46@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dave, Would you explain what you mean by 14% heads and 24% tails. Are
      > those percentages of the total amount distilled?
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Robbie PS No such thing as Too Smooth
      >
      > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > I would agree that you created a near perfect vodka. For me, my goal is
      > > smooth beverage and in most cases a great flavor. Congratz.
      > >
      > > Robert
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------
      > > *From:* David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
      > > *To:* Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:17 AM
      > > *Subject:* [Distillers] Too smooth?
      > >
      > >
      > > I've just finished a batch of spirits using vodka star turbo yeast. I've
      > > taken generous cuts of 14% heads, 24% tails. Then I've filtered (50:50
      > > dilution) for the first time. The spirit comes off my still at 93/94%,then
      > > after the filtration I've diluted to 40% to make vodka. Trouble is there's
      > > hardly any kick when I drink the vodka, though there is the same warm
      > > feeling on going down the gullitt. I retested the strength and it is indeed
      > > 40%. I can't believe how smooth this product is, and am almost inclined to
      > > add some tails to sharpen it back up again to give it a kick. Has any body
      > > else experienced this?
      > > Dave E
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • David Eastham
      Hi Robert just answered the figures in previous post. I kept the temp steady at 78.1-78.2c throughout up to the tails which started at 78.2c and ended at 78.4c
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 28, 2012
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        Hi Robert just answered the figures in previous post. I kept the temp steady at 78.1-78.2c throughout up to the tails which started at 78.2c and ended at 78.4c when I stopped the still. I ran take off at about 550ml per hour throughout.
        Cheers
        Dave E

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, that was a little confusing.  If your wash is 100% and you produced 14% alcohol, you would have 86% waster and solids remaining.  If your 100% is of your 14% Ethanol, then your head was 14%, heart was 62%, and your tail was 24%.
        >
        > If your heart was 62% that would be an extremely deep heart cut that seems to defy smooth reasoning.  One would reason that a head would be 14%, heart 24%, and a tail of 62% seems more reasonable.  From my readings, they suggest head cut off at 180 F (80% abv.) and tail cut off at 200 F (60% to 65% abv.)  Some suggest a striping run down to 30% abv., but that still leave a quantity of Ethanol in their wash.  My interest is in spirits and industrial Ethanol, so I will be looking at some extreme tail cuts. 
        >
        > How much water did you use?
        > How much sugar did you start with?
        > What were your temp cut offs?
        >
        > Robert
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Robbie Mabry <robbie46@...>
        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:13 PM
        > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Too smooth?
        >
        >
        >  
        > Dave, Would you explain what you mean by 14% heads and 24% tails.  Are those percentages of the total amount distilled?
        >
        > Thanks,
        >  Robbie     PS No such thing as Too Smooth
        >
        >
        > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > > 
        > >I would agree that you created a near perfect vodka.  For me, my goal is smooth beverage and in most cases a great flavor.  Congratz.
        > >
        > >Robert
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >________________________________
        > > From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
        > >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:17 AM
        > >Subject: [Distillers] Too smooth?
        > >
        > >
        > > 
        > >I've just finished a batch of spirits using vodka star turbo yeast. I've taken generous cuts of 14% heads, 24% tails. Then I've filtered (50:50 dilution) for the first time. The spirit comes off my still at 93/94%,then after the filtration I've diluted to 40% to make vodka. Trouble is there's hardly any kick when I drink the vodka, though there is the same warm feeling on going down the gullitt. I retested the strength and it is indeed 40%. I can't believe how smooth this product is, and am almost inclined to add some tails to sharpen it back up again to give it a kick. Has any body else experienced this?
        > >Dave E
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • David Eastham
        Cheers Ken, I never take off middles above 78.2c, my still maintains this temp for 4-6 hours till the tails arrive. Thanks for sharing your figures. Dave E
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 28, 2012
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          Cheers Ken, I never take off middles above 78.2c, my still maintains this temp for 4-6 hours till the tails arrive. Thanks for sharing your figures.
          Dave E
          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "KM Services" <km_services@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dave,
          >
          > If it is of any help this is how I operate my still is from my files section
          > in New Distillers
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > RUNNING A REFLUX STILL.
          >
          > Here is a basic run down on what I do ..hope it helps.
          >
          > When you come to running the still cuts are the key to quality and you
          > should not be
          >
          > getting "Lower Grade" alcohol as these are heads and tails and should be
          > kept for
          >
          > redistilling as the good drinkable is ethanol and it here is a guide to
          > basically getting
          >
          > good "heart" to drink. The cuts consist of basically 4 components and if
          > making
          >
          > neutral alcohol, then only the ethanol should be kept (also called the
          > middle run or
          >
          > "hearts") - this requires a reflux still.
          >
          > 1st cut is the foreshot which is 50mls and is thrown away or used as a fire
          > starter and
          >
          > consists of and yes is potential for some methanol produced in all
          > fermentations -
          >
          > more so in grains and fruit musts, worts or mashes and less in sugar washes
          >
          > ( Do Not Freak Out See Note Below).
          >
          > Comment From Harry: Not all washes contain "methanol" per se. Only grain &
          > fruitbased
          >
          > washes have that "potential". But all washes DO contain low boiling point
          >
          > "contaminants". methanol is but one of many possibilities.
          >
          > And in these minute quantities it is (if present at all) way less than you
          > will find in a
          >
          > glass of ordinary orange juice, and WAY less than you will find in
          > commercial spirits
          >
          > * There is are some acetone (nail polish remover), ethyl acetates and other
          >
          > contaminating compounds in the Foreshots and Heads which are the lower
          >
          > boiling point contaminates and alcohols.
          >
          > * Acetone 56.5C (134F)
          >
          > * Methanol (wood alcohol) 64C (147F)
          >
          > The fore shots should be taken very slowly (at 1>2 drops per second) by
          > cranking up
          >
          > the water flow to slow it down if running a CM Head as I do.
          >
          > 2nd cut is the Heads which for you still will be around 100mls to 200mls and
          > is kept
          >
          > and added to the next distil if you want neutral and primarily a fruity
          > smelling alcohol
          >
          > Ethyl acetate
          >
          > * 77.1C (171F) and within 1Deg C of ethanol (the good stuff)
          >
          > 3rd cut is the Heats or Middle which depends on how fussy you want to be
          > with this
          >
          > take and slower is better and try and keep the Head at around 78C to 80C for
          > this
          >
          > collect (the ethanol range) and collect say 2 litres then collect in 250ml
          > increments
          >
          > and if you can not control the head temperature or smell changes then
          > collect the
          >
          > balance as tails in a separate container (added to the heads for later
          > redistilling)Also
          >
          > monitor the Abv and do not collect below 70% ABV if going for neutral for
          >
          > flavouring or if I want really good Vodka I cut at about 90% ABV and collect
          > the rest
          >
          > as Tails
          >
          > 4th cut is the Tails and there is still plenty of ethanol in the cut but has
          > lots of flavour
          >
          > and smell which if you are using a grain mash for whiskey is collected in
          > small
          >
          > containers and blended to flavour, however, if making white spirits needs to
          > be cut out
          >
          > and the higher temp ones tend to smell of old wet socks!and this contains
          > the
          >
          > following alcohols
          >
          > * 2-Propanol (rubbing alcohol) 82C (180F)
          >
          > * 1-Propanol 97C (207F)
          >
          > * Water 100C (212F)
          >
          > * Butanol 116C (241F)
          >
          > * Amyl alcohol 137.8C (280F)
          >
          > * Furfural 161C (322F)
          >
          > The heads and the foreshots is the "Hangover Zone" so care with this cut
          > makes a
          >
          > better morning and the tails cut gives the clean good tasting alcohol.
          >
          > A golden rule is "do not be greedy" because that extra alcohol may well
          > contaminate
          >
          > the rest of the hearts take hence the reason for collecting in smaller
          > container when
          >
          > nearing the tails cut.
          >
          > Filtering will greatly improve any neutral, but the key is to cut it to
          > 50%ABV as
          >
          > carbon doesn't work at higher ABV's and the carbon must be saturated with
          > water not
          >
          > merely wetted.
          >
          > I use a Z filter and will rinse for 15 minutes the place my filled filter in
          > a bucket of
          >
          > water (weighed down) over night to completely saturate and then run my grog
          > through
          >
          > at least 3 times then cut to 37% to 40%ABV for drinking as Vodka or
          > flavouring?
          >
          > Aging etc.?
          >
          > Have Fun with this all engrossing hobby
          >
          > Cheers Ken Mc
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > cheers Ken Mc
          >
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          >
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          > l>
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Robbie Mabry
          > Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012 11:13 a.m.
          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Too smooth?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Dave, Would you explain what you mean by 14% heads and 24% tails. Are those
          > percentages of the total amount distilled?
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Robbie PS No such thing as Too Smooth
          >
          > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > I would agree that you created a near perfect vodka. For me, my goal is
          > smooth beverage and in most cases a great flavor. Congratz.
          >
          > Robert
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:17 AM
          > Subject: [Distillers] Too smooth?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I've just finished a batch of spirits using vodka star turbo yeast. I've
          > taken generous cuts of 14% heads, 24% tails. Then I've filtered (50:50
          > dilution) for the first time. The spirit comes off my still at 93/94%,then
          > after the filtration I've diluted to 40% to make vodka. Trouble is there's
          > hardly any kick when I drink the vodka, though there is the same warm
          > feeling on going down the gullitt. I retested the strength and it is indeed
          > 40%. I can't believe how smooth this product is, and am almost inclined to
          > add some tails to sharpen it back up again to give it a kick. Has any body
          > else experienced this?
          > Dave E
          >
        • David Eastham
          Hi Rob I ve added my spreadsheet/method to the file section called trial vodka its an excel spreadsheet hope its of some use. Regards Dave E
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 28, 2012
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            Hi Rob I've added my spreadsheet/method to the file section called trial vodka its an excel spreadsheet hope its of some use.
            Regards
            Dave E

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes, that was a little confusing.  If your wash is 100% and you produced 14% alcohol, you would have 86% waster and solids remaining.  If your 100% is of your 14% Ethanol, then your head was 14%, heart was 62%, and your tail was 24%.
            >
            > If your heart was 62% that would be an extremely deep heart cut that seems to defy smooth reasoning.  One would reason that a head would be 14%, heart 24%, and a tail of 62% seems more reasonable.  From my readings, they suggest head cut off at 180 F (80% abv.) and tail cut off at 200 F (60% to 65% abv.)  Some suggest a striping run down to 30% abv., but that still leave a quantity of Ethanol in their wash.  My interest is in spirits and industrial Ethanol, so I will be looking at some extreme tail cuts. 
            >
            > How much water did you use?
            > How much sugar did you start with?
            > What were your temp cut offs?
            >
            > Robert
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Robbie Mabry <robbie46@...>
            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:13 PM
            > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Too smooth?
            >
            >
            >  
            > Dave, Would you explain what you mean by 14% heads and 24% tails.  Are those percentages of the total amount distilled?
            >
            > Thanks,
            >  Robbie     PS No such thing as Too Smooth
            >
            >
            > On Thu, Dec 27, 2012 at 3:06 PM, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > > 
            > >I would agree that you created a near perfect vodka.  For me, my goal is smooth beverage and in most cases a great flavor.  Congratz.
            > >
            > >Robert
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >________________________________
            > > From: David Eastham <planetgong0@...>
            > >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > >Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:17 AM
            > >Subject: [Distillers] Too smooth?
            > >
            > >
            > > 
            > >I've just finished a batch of spirits using vodka star turbo yeast. I've taken generous cuts of 14% heads, 24% tails. Then I've filtered (50:50 dilution) for the first time. The spirit comes off my still at 93/94%,then after the filtration I've diluted to 40% to make vodka. Trouble is there's hardly any kick when I drink the vodka, though there is the same warm feeling on going down the gullitt. I retested the strength and it is indeed 40%. I can't believe how smooth this product is, and am almost inclined to add some tails to sharpen it back up again to give it a kick. Has any body else experienced this?
            > >Dave E
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
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