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Re: [Distillers] mash question

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  • anthony chiappetta
    there is an enzyme that will grow and eat your mash s alcohol and sour the mash. in our 1000 gallon mashes it happens in 7-10 days and changes the flavor
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 22, 2012
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      there is an enzyme that will grow and eat your mash's alcohol and sour the mash. in our 1000 gallon mashes it happens in 7-10 days and changes the flavor profile, not to mention the lost in alcohol can be from 4-12 % depending on the time left before distilling.

      On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Byron <odiekokee@...> wrote:
       

      My apology for a overly simple question:

      With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.

      Much obliged,
      Me.


    • last2blast
      My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 29, 2012
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        My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D



        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
        >
        > You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
        > cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
        > anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
        > add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
        > for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
        > takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
        > a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
        > forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
        > fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
        > infected very easily.
        >
        >
        >
        > John S. Thomas
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Byron
        > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
        > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Distillers] mash question
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > My apology for a overly simple question:
        >
        > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
        > day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
        > done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
        > leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
        >
        > Much obliged,
        > Me.
        >
      • anthony chiappetta
        yes there are losts, as for the TTB, they dont care about how much we make, ( kind of ), but what we bottle and what goes out the door for promos and to
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 29, 2012
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          yes there are losts, as for the TTB, they dont care about how much we make, ( kind of ),  but what we bottle and what goes out the door for promos and to retail, its all about the taxes. i can not explain why wine does not have the same problems as mash does when storedt but there is an biological reaction that "eats" alcohol if you leave it sit. I will ask our phd chemist to explain it, when he gets a chance.

          On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:54 AM, last2blast <last2blast@...> wrote:
           

          My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
          >
          > You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
          > cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
          > anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
          > add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
          > for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
          > takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
          > a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
          > forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
          > fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
          > infected very easily.
          >
          >
          >
          > John S. Thomas
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Byron
          > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Distillers] mash question
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > My apology for a overly simple question:
          >
          > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
          > day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
          > done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
          > leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
          >
          > Much obliged,
          > Me.
          >


        • Luke Moore
          i believe once its fermented, you need to remove the deadspace oxygen part in the container if you want to store it for lenghts of time. its the interaction
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 29, 2012
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            i believe once its fermented, you need to remove the deadspace oxygen part in the container if you want to store it for lenghts of time. 

            its the interaction with oxygen that creates long term negatives.

            On 29/11/2012, at 22:54, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

             

            My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
            >
            > You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
            > cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
            > anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
            > add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
            > for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
            > takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
            > a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
            > forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
            > fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
            > infected very easily.
            >
            >
            >
            > John S. Thomas
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Byron
            > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
            > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Distillers] mash question
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > My apology for a overly simple question:
            >
            > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
            > day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
            > done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
            > leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
            >
            > Much obliged,
            > Me.
            >

          • Fredrick Lee
            It s not an enzyme, it s a bacteria called acetobacter and it s how vinegar is made. It s killed at about 7% abv and isn t volatile. I think it dies at 61°C
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 29, 2012
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              It's not an enzyme, it's a bacteria called acetobacter and it's how vinegar is made. It's killed at about 7% abv and isn't volatile. I think it dies at 61°C after 1 minute, but I don't use the stuff. 

              On Nov 29, 2012, at 6:54 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

               

              My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
              >
              > You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
              > cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
              > anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
              > add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
              > for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
              > takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
              > a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
              > forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
              > fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
              > infected very easily.
              >
              >
              >
              > John S. Thomas
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Byron
              > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Distillers] mash question
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > My apology for a overly simple question:
              >
              > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
              > day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
              > done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
              > leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
              >
              > Much obliged,
              > Me.
              >

            • last2blast
              If you added garlic to mash, would it kill the bacteria without harming the yeast in mash? I will conduct an experiment to see how well garlic and yeast react
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 29, 2012
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                If you added garlic to mash, would it kill the bacteria without harming the yeast in mash?

                I will conduct an experiment to see how well garlic and yeast react to each other in a simple sugar mash.









                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...> wrote:
                >
                > It's not an enzyme, it's a bacteria called acetobacter and it's how vinegar is made. It's killed at about 7% abv and isn't volatile. I think it dies at 61°C after 1 minute, but I don't use the stuff.
                >
                > On Nov 29, 2012, at 6:54 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:
                >
                > > My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D
                > >
                > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
                > > > cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
                > > > anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
                > > > add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
                > > > for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
                > > > takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
                > > > a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
                > > > forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
                > > > fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
                > > > infected very easily.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > John S. Thomas
                > > >
                > > > _____
                > > >
                > > > From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
                > > > Behalf Of Byron
                > > > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
                > > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Subject: [Distillers] mash question
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > My apology for a overly simple question:
                > > >
                > > > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
                > > > day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
                > > > done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
                > > > leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                > > >
                > > > Much obliged,
                > > > Me.
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • ballard_bootlegger
                Leaving a mash to sit once vigorous fermentation has finished is generally a bad idea. If you dropped a camden tablet and/or boiled your wash before
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 30, 2012
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                  Leaving a mash to sit once vigorous fermentation has finished is generally a bad idea. If you dropped a camden tablet and/or boiled your wash before fermenting as you would with beer AND put it in a sterile, air tight vessel you might be able to keep it for a month. Unless you have a reason to leave it I wouldn't recommend it. The worst is those infections can spread to other washes you might have going.

                  I once had a nasty run in with a bacterial infection just 24 hours after mashing some rye. It smelled up the whole house with this rotten cereal/noxious odor, I've never smelled anything like it. I tried to save it, I even was able to fight the pH enough to accomplish some fermentation but when I ran it through the beer stripper it just tasted terrible. Blech.

                  For the question of lost alcohol and the TTB, they don't require excise tax till it's distilled so the loss would just be ingredients and time.

                  Drink Well
                  -W.
                • anthony chiappetta
                  ok guys i got our PHD biochemist to type this up, i now have a greater understanding of it. Here is what I know about storing mash. alcohol yeast make ethanol
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 30, 2012
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                    ok guys i got our PHD biochemist to type this up, i now have a greater understanding of it.

                    Here is what I know about storing mash.
                    alcohol yeast make ethanol and carbon dioxide in anaerobic conditions. To make these products, the yeast will consume fermentable sugars. If you have a lactobacillus infection at the beginning of the fermentation, you will get lactic acid and diacetyl in addition to ethanol and carbon dioxide. If you have no lactobacillus infection, the yeast will make ethanol and carbon dioxide until they run out of fermentable sugars or the alcohol concentration gets high enough to kill the yeast. At this point is when the bubbling stops in the air lock.
                    As long as there is no air allowed to enter the fermentation vessel, the fermented mash should stay good for a good while, just like a wine or beer fermentation. However, if even small amounts of air get in there, acetic acid will form from the action of other aerobic bacteria, and ruin the batch.
                    It is no big deal to give the fermentation an extra week or so, but you will really not gain anything from it, especially if you are planning to distill the finished fermentation, and you do run the risk of getting an off batch.


                     
                    Jarle Lillemoen, Ph.D.
                    Vice President of Research and Development
                    Bone Spirits, LLC

                    On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 6:58 PM, ballard_bootlegger <whitney@...> wrote:
                     

                    Leaving a mash to sit once vigorous fermentation has finished is generally a bad idea. If you dropped a camden tablet and/or boiled your wash before fermenting as you would with beer AND put it in a sterile, air tight vessel you might be able to keep it for a month. Unless you have a reason to leave it I wouldn't recommend it. The worst is those infections can spread to other washes you might have going.

                    I once had a nasty run in with a bacterial infection just 24 hours after mashing some rye. It smelled up the whole house with this rotten cereal/noxious odor, I've never smelled anything like it. I tried to save it, I even was able to fight the pH enough to accomplish some fermentation but when I ran it through the beer stripper it just tasted terrible. Blech.

                    For the question of lost alcohol and the TTB, they don't require excise tax till it's distilled so the loss would just be ingredients and time.

                    Drink Well
                    -W.


                  • last2blast
                    Agreed that it might cause a future problem! I am test freezing my first 1 gallon sugar wash to see how well it will hold up until I am ready to process it.
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 30, 2012
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                      Agreed that it might cause a future problem! I am test freezing my first 1 gallon sugar wash to see how well it will hold up until I am ready to process it. Since I am only making 1 gallon test batches, it will be easy to store them in my freezer. I am interested in attempting sugar jack to see how well it separates and removes water from my test wash.





                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "ballard_bootlegger" <whitney@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Leaving a mash to sit once vigorous fermentation has finished is generally a bad idea. If you dropped a camden tablet and/or boiled your wash before fermenting as you would with beer AND put it in a sterile, air tight vessel you might be able to keep it for a month. Unless you have a reason to leave it I wouldn't recommend it. The worst is those infections can spread to other washes you might have going.
                      >
                      > I once had a nasty run in with a bacterial infection just 24 hours after mashing some rye. It smelled up the whole house with this rotten cereal/noxious odor, I've never smelled anything like it. I tried to save it, I even was able to fight the pH enough to accomplish some fermentation but when I ran it through the beer stripper it just tasted terrible. Blech.
                      >
                      > For the question of lost alcohol and the TTB, they don't require excise tax till it's distilled so the loss would just be ingredients and time.
                      >
                      > Drink Well
                      > -W.
                      >
                    • last2blast
                      I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack.
                      Message 10 of 26 , Dec 1, 2012
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                        I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

                        My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

                        What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.




                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > My apology for a overly simple question:
                        >
                        > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                        >
                        > Much obliged,
                        > Me.
                        >
                      • White Bear
                        Friends-  I have been following this thread for a while and plan to do some experiment using dry ice.  I believe that if you HAVE TO wait before distilling
                        Message 11 of 26 , Dec 1, 2012
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                          Friends-
                           I have been following this thread for a while and plan to do some experiment using dry ice.  I believe that if you HAVE TO wait before distilling your wash the best way to keep oxigen from spoiling the alcohol you could displace it with CO2.  Since in a sterile wash the yeast converts the sugars into alcohol and CO2, to keep it for a length of time put a small amount of dry ice in the "wine, mash, beer" whatever you want to call it and after the sublimation calms down cork the fermenter so no oxigen can get to it.
                            To get the dry ice if it is no longer available to you, use a CO2 fire extingusher.  By putting a close knit bag such as musilin, over the nozzle and depress the handle for a few seconds. you will capture the frozen CO2 in "dry" form.  Please wear gloves while doing this so you don't "burn" your hands.  The bag will get frosty and inside you will find small chunks of dry ice.  Drop a small amount into your fermenter and wait for it to calm down then cork or seal the opening.
                            I haven't done this yet but I want to next time I have some ready to distill off.  If you have tried this or want to please let us know your results.
                          WB

                          From: anthony chiappetta <achiappetta512@...>
                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 2:14 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
                           
                          yes there are losts, as for the TTB, they dont care about how much we make, ( kind of ),  but what we bottle and what goes out the door for promos and to retail, its all about the taxes. i can not explain why wine does not have the same problems as mash does when storedt but there is an biological reaction that "eats" alcohol if you leave it sit. I will ask our phd chemist to explain it, when he gets a chance.

                          On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 5:54 AM, last2blast <last2blast@...> wrote:
                           
                          My problem with this question and answers is that wine would lose a great deal of its alcohol content if there was an enzyme that consumes alcohol. You would have trouble storing spirits to sell because you would lose spirits. How would a distiller justify this loss of spirits to TTB? I am new to distilling, but in all of my studies no one ever mentioned a drunk enzyme. =D

                          --- In mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com, "John S. Thomas" <john@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > You may have mashing and fermenting mixed up. Mashing is the process of
                          > cooking the grain and then washing out the sugars. This process take
                          > anywhere from one hour to 90 minutes. The fermentation cycle is where you
                          > add yeast after the wort or the sugars are washed from the mash then boiled
                          > for 90 minutes, cooled then the yeasted is added. This fermentation process
                          > takes any where from five to ten days. The fermentation process goes from
                          > a beginning gravity to and ending specific gravity. This process can be
                          > forced or shortened or so I am told. I would not let the mash or
                          > fermentation process sit past when it is done. Beer or wort can become
                          > infected very easily.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > John S. Thomas
                          >
                          > _____
                          >
                          > From: mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com] On
                          > Behalf Of Byron
                          > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 4:19 PM
                          > To: mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Distillers] mash question
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > My apology for a overly simple question:
                          >
                          > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a
                          > day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is
                          > done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i
                          > leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                          >
                          > Much obliged,
                          > Me.
                          >

                        • Fredrick Lee
                          The best way to store fermented liquid is to keep them airtight. As long as you don t open them, they ll stay under a blanket of co2. You risk ruining the beer
                          Message 12 of 26 , Dec 1, 2012
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                            The best way to store fermented liquid is to keep them airtight. As long as you don't open them, they'll stay under a blanket of co2. You risk ruining the beer every time you open it. There are all kinds of airborne bacteria that can take hold. Mash your wort,  pitch your yeast, ferment it out and leave it under an airlock. Don't touch it. It will be beer for years. 

                            On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

                             

                            I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

                            My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

                            What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > My apology for a overly simple question:
                            >
                            > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                            >
                            > Much obliged,
                            > Me.
                            >

                          • Adam Fordham
                            Hot mash. Plan ahead. Problem solved. Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                            Message 13 of 26 , Dec 1, 2012
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                              Hot mash. Plan ahead. Problem solved.


                              Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                              From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>;
                              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                              Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
                              Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 7:52:56 PM



                              The best way to store fermented liquid is to keep them airtight. As long as you don't open them, they'll stay under a blanket of co2. You risk ruining the beer every time you open it. There are all kinds of airborne bacteria that can take hold. Mash your wort,  pitch your yeast, ferment it out and leave it under an airlock. Don't touch it. It will be beer for years. 

                              On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

                               

                              I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

                              My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

                              What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > My apology for a overly simple question:
                              >
                              > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                              >
                              > Much obliged,
                              > Me.
                              >



                            • Adam Fordham
                              The character of your distilate will change. Possibly a good thing pprobably a negative thing. There really is no benefit to ageing a wash that I am aware of
                              Message 14 of 26 , Dec 1, 2012
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                                The character of your distilate will change. Possibly a good thing pprobably a negative thing. There really is no benefit to ageing a wash that I am aware of aside from clearing. A completely fermented out wash is still a wonderful thing to bacteria. Freezing would be best for storage but not practical. Hops was originally added to beer for its antibacterial properties but I wouldn't distill a hopped mash. Oxygen promotes vinegar. Something else to consider would be stressed yeast produce nasty tasting components to survive. The acidity of wine and lack of oxygen is what preserved wine before sulfites were first used. Still works too.


                                Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                                From: Adam Fordham <bluwater2828@...>;
                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>; fredrick@... <fredrick@...>;
                                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
                                Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 8:08:09 PM



                                Hot mash. Plan ahead. Problem solved.


                                Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                                From: Fredrick Lee <fredrick@...>;
                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
                                Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 7:52:56 PM



                                The best way to store fermented liquid is to keep them airtight. As long as you don't open them, they'll stay under a blanket of co2. You risk ruining the beer every time you open it. There are all kinds of airborne bacteria that can take hold. Mash your wort,  pitch your yeast, ferment it out and leave it under an airlock. Don't touch it. It will be beer for years. 

                                On Dec 1, 2012, at 9:55 AM, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:

                                 

                                I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

                                My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

                                What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > My apology for a overly simple question:
                                >
                                > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                                >
                                > Much obliged,
                                > Me.
                                >





                              • Eddie Hoskin
                                FYI, you won t be able to concentrate above ~ 20% this way--at concentrations above 20%, the liquid won t freeze.  You ll have lowered the freezing point so
                                Message 15 of 26 , Dec 1, 2012
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                                  FYI, you won't be able to concentrate above ~ 20% this way--at concentrations above 20%, the liquid won't freeze.  You'll have lowered the freezing point so far that your freeze can't freeze it any more.

                                  HTH,
                                  Eddie



                                  From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:55 AM
                                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: mash question

                                   
                                  I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

                                  My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

                                  What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > My apology for a overly simple question:
                                  >
                                  > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                                  >
                                  > Much obliged,
                                  > Me.
                                  >



                                • last2blast
                                  Thanks for the info. So far, my sugar Jack has been reduced to 45 oz. from the original 150 oz. sugar wash. An alcohol calculator was found, and my info was
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Dec 1, 2012
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                                    Thanks for the info. So far, my sugar Jack has been reduced to 45 oz. from the original 150 oz. sugar wash. An alcohol calculator was found, and my info was calculated. My sugar jack stated at around 5.9% abv, and wash has been reduced to 1/3 original volume. If your 20% is correct, my wash should not freeze again because it should be just over 23% abv. I am hoping to reduce it down to 32 oz. so it will fit into a canning jar for storage until it can be processed further, but 45 oz might be my limit.

                                    Yes, I did read that autos once used Ethanol as anti-freeze, but it will be interesting to see how much water can be frozen at -10 F and removed. It will be a while before I can purchase a still, so all of my concentrated test batched will be filtered before going into storage.

                                    Robert



                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Hoskin <eddie_hoskin@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > FYI, you won't be able to concentrate above ~ 20% this way--at concentrations above 20%, the liquid won't freeze.  You'll have lowered the freezing point so far that your freeze can't freeze it any more.
                                    >
                                    > HTH,
                                    > Eddie
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
                                    > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:55 AM
                                    > Subject: [Distillers] Re: mash question
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.
                                    >
                                    > My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.
                                    >
                                    > What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.
                                    >
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > My apology for a overly simple question:
                                    > >
                                    > > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                                    > >
                                    > > Much obliged,
                                    > > Me.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • last2blast
                                    In my experiment with freeze distillation, I was able to take about 150 oz. of sugar wash and reduce that down to around 25 oz. for cold storage. For me this
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Dec 2, 2012
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                                      In my experiment with freeze distillation, I was able to take about 150 oz. of sugar wash and reduce that down to around 25 oz. for cold storage. For me this is a perfect way to store my sugar wash until it can be processed further. I dipped my finger into my concentrated wash just to get a sense of its taste: On the front end, it had no taste like water. On the back end, it was bitter because it had not been filtered.

                                      Those two drops on my finger gave me a headache, which most likely was the result of Methanol in my wash. It also gave me an ever so slight buzz.

                                      I am pleased with the results of my first test. My way is a lot more labor intensive, but I am satisfied that my batches will not spoil or become infected with bacteria. This will give you something to think about as a means of long term wash storage until you have time to process it properly.





                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > My apology for a overly simple question:
                                      >
                                      > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                                      >
                                      > Much obliged,
                                      > Me.
                                      >
                                    • Adam Fordham
                                      Thats true. But you put a mash in the freezer most If not all of the nastys won t grow and the yeast will go dormant or die off.  Sent from Yahoo! Mail on
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Dec 2, 2012
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                                        Thats true. But you put a mash in the freezer most If not all of the nastys won't grow and the yeast will go dormant or die off.


                                        Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



                                        From: Eddie Hoskin <eddie_hoskin@...>;
                                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>;
                                        Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: mash question
                                        Sent: Sat, Dec 1, 2012 9:40:59 PM



                                        FYI, you won't be able to concentrate above ~ 20% this way--at concentrations above 20%, the liquid won't freeze.  You'll have lowered the freezing point so far that your freeze can't freeze it any more.

                                        HTH,
                                        Eddie



                                        From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
                                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2012 9:55 AM
                                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: mash question

                                         
                                        I was concerned about this myself, so my first test, sugar wash, gallon is being turned into Sugar Jack. Rather, it is in the process of becoming Sugar Jack. My original 1.2 gallon test batch has been reduced to 2 quarts.

                                        My wash was divided into to 2 plastic container with narrow necks, and every two hours I would pour the liquid into another container and hold it over the funnel until it stopped dripping. That container was placed in the freezer and the first container was cleared of ice. If my wash started out at 10% abv then it is 20% currently. I am trying to reduce my wash down to around 15 to 20 oz., and it should give me a wash in the neighborhood of 80% abv. No, I am not going to drink it because it is full of nasty stuff like Methanol and yeast.

                                        What I am trying to achieve is a way to store my wash until it can be properly processed. I have never tried this before, so 80% abv may not be possible, but it will be fun to try. I am hoping nothing can survived in 60% to 80% abv wash.

                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > My apology for a overly simple question:
                                        >
                                        > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                                        >
                                        > Much obliged,
                                        > Me.
                                        >





                                      • made_it_myself
                                        If you are making a simple sugar wash ther won t be any methanol in it so your headache was probably just coincidence.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Dec 7, 2012
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                                          If you are making a simple sugar wash ther won't be any methanol in it so your headache was probably just coincidence.


                                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "last2blast" <last2blast@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > In my experiment with freeze distillation, I was able to take about 150 oz. of sugar wash and reduce that down to around 25 oz. for cold storage. For me this is a perfect way to store my sugar wash until it can be processed further. I dipped my finger into my concentrated wash just to get a sense of its taste: On the front end, it had no taste like water. On the back end, it was bitter because it had not been filtered.
                                          >
                                          > Those two drops on my finger gave me a headache, which most likely was the result of Methanol in my wash. It also gave me an ever so slight buzz.
                                          >
                                          > I am pleased with the results of my first test. My way is a lot more labor intensive, but I am satisfied that my batches will not spoil or become infected with bacteria. This will give you something to think about as a means of long term wash storage until you have time to process it properly.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Byron" <odiekokee@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > My apology for a overly simple question:
                                          > >
                                          > > With a simple mash, is there any harm to leaving it to sit anywhere from a day to a month past the end of bubbling from the check? I know the yeast is done and dead, just wanting to make sure it won't cause trouble before i leave it to sit till I have time to finish the process.
                                          > >
                                          > > Much obliged,
                                          > > Me.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • last2blast
                                          All good points, but my freeze distilled wash has to be done this way until I can build or purchase a pot still. I am not one too wait until I have everything
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Dec 8, 2012
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                                            All good points, but my freeze distilled wash has to be done this way until I can build or purchase a pot still. I am not one too wait until I have everything in place before I start my experiments. One of the other commentator's stated that water will not freeze beyond 20% alcohol, but 20% alcohol may not kill all bacteria. This is why I refrigerate my freeze distilled batches at this time.

                                            Garlic kills bacteria and smells bad during fermentation, but it seems not to harm fermentation process. It will be interesting to find out how garlic will affect its taste.

                                            By the way, I made poor wines in the past, and I got the bug to try distilled spirits from watching "Moonshiners". Once I have a process, formula, and funding, I will go completely legal with a nano-distillery. Current TTB regulations make it almost impossible to come up with a process and formulas without thousands of dollars on hand.




                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Adam Fordham <bluwater2828@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > The character of your distilate will change. Possibly a good thing pprobably a negative thing. There really is no benefit to ageing a wash that I am aware of aside from clearing. A completely fermented out wash is still a wonderful thing to bacteria. Freezing would be best for storage but not practical. Hops was originally added to beer for its antibacterial properties but I wouldn't distill a hopped mash. Oxygen promotes vinegar. Something else to consider would be stressed yeast produce nasty tasting components to survive. The acidity of wine and lack of oxygen is what preserved wine before sulfites were first used. Still works too.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
                                            >
                                          • nick shaffer
                                            I was in hosp. and had mash working,how long will mass stay good with air locks?
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Jan 21, 2013
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                                              I was in hosp. and had mash working,how long will mass stay good with air locks?
                                            • Ion Brown
                                              NICK , how crook are you ? Ion
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Jan 21, 2013
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                                                NICK , how crook are you ?

                                                Ion
                                              • ballard_bootlegger
                                                So what happened with the garlic? I m almost positive the garlic flavor would come through the distillation. I ve never thought of flavoring booze with
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Jan 23, 2013
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                                                  So what happened with the garlic? I'm almost positive the garlic flavor would come through the distillation. I've never thought of flavoring booze with garlic, it may be a magical addition to someone's gin recipe. Let us know how it turns out.

                                                  W.


                                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "last2blast" wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > If you added garlic to mash, would it kill the bacteria without harming the yeast in mash?
                                                  >
                                                  > I will conduct an experiment to see how well garlic and yeast react to each other in a simple sugar mash.
                                                  >
                                                • RLB
                                                  I just got my new pot still, so I am experimenting to find its cuts.  All my garlic samples used baker s yeast, so I just mixed all of the baker s yeast into
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Jan 23, 2013
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                                                    I just got my new pot still, so I am experimenting to find its cuts.  All my garlic samples used baker's yeast, so I just mixed all of the baker's yeast into my first 3 striping runs.  In total, just under 1 gal of stripped alcohol was collected from all of my 1 gal samples.  All of that stripped bakers yeast smelled like turpentine or glue.  After a week in 1 qt jars, they did smell better.  I am currently waiting to collect a second gal of stripped alcohol to see what the final results will be with 4 garlic samples mixed in with the other.  I did a control garlic and not garlic samples, and the garlic sample stalled a week before its control sample.  I have better yeast that can tolerate 16% abv  I will do 2 more garlic samples and 2 non garlic samples with my new yeast and see what the results will be.  1 tbsp of garlic stalled in a sugar wash, but a 0.5 tbsp in a dark brown sugar wash did much better.  For a true garlic sample test it will take at least 15 gal of garlic wash.

                                                    Testing will continue as always, but its cold enough here to slow down fermentation. 

                                                    Robert



                                                    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________



                                                    From: ballard_bootlegger <whitney@...>
                                                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:36 PM
                                                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: mash question

                                                     
                                                    So what happened with the garlic? I'm almost positive the garlic flavor would come through the distillation. I've never thought of flavoring booze with garlic, it may be a magical addition to someone's gin recipe. Let us know how it turns out.

                                                    W.

                                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "last2blast" wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > If you added garlic to mash, would it kill the bacteria without harming the yeast in mash?
                                                    >
                                                    > I will conduct an experiment to see how well garlic and yeast react to each other in a simple sugar mash.
                                                    >



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