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Re: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate

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  • bleu jeanzz
    Calcium Carbonate is effective , can get it at most brew shops. ... From: Elm Brook Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 24, 2011
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      Calcium Carbonate is effective , can get it at most brew shops.

      --- On Mon, 10/24/11, Elm Brook <elmbrook@...> wrote:

      From: Elm Brook <elmbrook@...>
      Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, October 24, 2011, 7:37 AM

       

      Ed, thanks for your repsonse.  I know that when you want to adjust the pH before wine fermentation, KHCO3 is used.  What I don't know is the affect of bicarbonates may have on distillation.  Specifically I'm concerned about Schweizer's reagent being formed during distillation.  If Potassium Bicarbonate can't be used what are distillers using to adjust pH (lower acidity/raise pH)
       
      I'm grateful for any insights anyone has.
      E
       
      --- On Mon, 10/24/11, Ed Barcik <edbar44@...> wrote:

      From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, October 24, 2011, 12:38 PM

       

      A quick look at Wikipedia says it’s a fungicide which would lead me to believe it may be detrimental to yeast health although potassium is in fertilizer and it may be beneficial as a nutrient, personally I use sodium  bicarbonate.

    • Eddie Hoskin
      Potassium bicarbonate specifically is referenced in my mead-making book as an excellent way to raise pH without adding the salty flavor that sodium bicarb
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 24, 2011
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        Potassium bicarbonate specifically is referenced in my mead-making book as an excellent way to raise pH without adding the 'salty' flavor that sodium bicarb will.

        IIRC, the method in which bicarbonates react is to absorb a stray H+ ion (ie, what makes acid an acid), then break down into H20 and CO2.  Therefore, the effect on your wash, beyond changing the oH, is the same as adding a little saltwater (ie, drops of it) to you wash.  Shouldn't be a big issue as far as distilling goes.

        HTH,
        Radicaled


        From: Elm Brook <elmbrook@...>
        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 10:37 AM
        Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate

         
        Ed, thanks for your repsonse.  I know that when you want to adjust the pH before wine fermentation, KHCO3 is used.  What I don't know is the affect of bicarbonates may have on distillation.  Specifically I'm concerned about Schweizer's reagent being formed during distillation.  If Potassium Bicarbonate can't be used what are distillers using to adjust pH (lower acidity/raise pH)
         
        I'm grateful for any insights anyone has.
        E
         
        --- On Mon, 10/24/11, Ed Barcik <edbar44@...> wrote:

        From: Ed Barcik <edbar44@...>
        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate
        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, October 24, 2011, 12:38 PM

         
        A quick look at Wikipedia says it’s a fungicide which would lead me to believe it may be detrimental to yeast health although potassium is in fertilizer and it may be beneficial as a nutrient, personally I use sodium  bicarbonate.


      • harisaki2004
        Hello E. Ph adjustment is used in many ferments across the world. In the world of winemaking (hot climate) in my area we typically add tartaric acid to reduce
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 25, 2011
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          Hello E.

          Ph adjustment is used in many ferments across the world. In the world of winemaking (hot climate) in my area we typically add tartaric acid to reduce pH. The more acid a ferment is, the cleaner the fermented wine. Yeasts dont like less than 3.0 pH though.

          Once the wine is fermented out to dryness it is then distilled the first time where a potassium carbonate addition to the distillate brings the Ph up to 7.0. This is used to neutralise any acetates etc.. to convert to alchohol before the second distillation.


          Now, some washes are fermented at higher pHs. As Harry has mentioned Sodium bicarb may give a salty taste where as potassium will not. No ill effects will occur in the small amounts used.

          Good luck with it. Importantly having a Ph meter is always a great help.

          Hari.

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "elmbrook@..." <elmbrook@...> wrote:
          >
          > Does anyone have experience using KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) to adjust the pH (raise the pH i.e., lower the acidity ) of a wash prior to adding yeast for fermentation. What I am looking for is information on any risks associated with the this bicarb and any benefits.
          >
          > Thanks
          > E
          >
        • Elm Brook
          Hari, that s good info.  I ve been asked why my pH is so low so maybe a quick explanation is in order.  I am experimenting with inverting sugar.  There is
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 25, 2011
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            Hari, that's good info.  I've been asked why my pH is so low so maybe a quick explanation is in order.  I am experimenting with inverting sugar.  There is some good research out there that indicates that heating sugar to boiling at a pH of 2 (I use citric acid) is optimal for inverting sucrose.  Once the inversion is complete the pH needs to be increased back to the normal range for fermentation i.e., the reason for using KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate).  Now here's the scary part - just in time for Halloween!  Everything went swimingly until distillation when my eyes surmised an errie sight...... blue distillate.  If your a distiller and you're not scared you should be. I swear at the exact moment the blue distillate appeared the wind began to blow and skies darkened.  I would never wish any distiller to have to experience such a fright.....
             
            By the way are there any Rum lovers out there who have tried inverting there sugars first?
            I'd like to know your experiences.
            Happy Halloween for Next Monday
            E
             
             


            --- On Tue, 10/25/11, harisaki2004 <ledaswan@...> wrote:

            From: harisaki2004 <ledaswan@...>
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 12:19 PM

             
            Hello E.

            Ph adjustment is used in many ferments across the world. In the world of winemaking (hot climate) in my area we typically add tartaric acid to reduce pH. The more acid a ferment is, the cleaner the fermented wine. Yeasts dont like less than 3.0 pH though.

            Once the wine is fermented out to dryness it is then distilled the first time where a potassium carbonate addition to the distillate brings the Ph up to 7.0. This is used to neutralise any acetates etc.. to convert to alchohol before the second distillation.

            Now, some washes are fermented at higher pHs. As Harry has mentioned Sodium bicarb may give a salty taste where as potassium will not. No ill effects will occur in the small amounts used.

            Good luck with it. Importantly having a Ph meter is always a great help.

            Hari.

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "elmbrook@..." <elmbrook@...> wrote:
            >
            > Does anyone have experience using KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) to adjust the pH (raise the pH i.e., lower the acidity ) of a wash prior to adding yeast for fermentation. What I am looking for is information on any risks associated with the this bicarb and any benefits.
            >
            > Thanks
            > E
            >

          • Robert Hubble
            Elm, Ok, that explains the low pH and why you might want to raise it for fermentation. I m not sure how high you took the pH or how much nitrogen-bearing yeast
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 25, 2011
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              Elm,

              Ok, that explains the low pH and why you might want to raise it for fermentation. I'm not sure how high you took the pH or how much nitrogen-bearing yeast nutrient you had in the wash (like, did you use a turbo?), but high pH and high nitrogen compound concentration seems to be a reliable path to Sweitzer's reagent, the dreaded "blue ookies".

              I don't know for sure, because it's never happened to me (although I've answered a lot of questions on this forum about it), but I'm betting at a wash pH of 5.0, you won't see blue distillate.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              From: elmbrook@...
              Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 06:59:31 -0700
              Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate

               
              Hari, that's good info.  I've been asked why my pH is so low so maybe a quick explanation is in order.  I am experimenting with inverting sugar.  There is some good research out there that indicates that heating sugar to boiling at a pH of 2 (I use citric acid) is optimal for inverting sucrose.  Once the inversion is complete the pH needs to be increased back to the normal range for fermentation i.e., the reason for using KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate).  Now here's the scary part - just in time for Halloween!  Everything went swimingly until distillation when my eyes surmised an errie sight...... blue distillate.  If your a distiller and you're not scared you should be. I swear at the exact moment the blue distillate appeared the wind began to blow and skies darkened.  I would never wish any distiller to have to experience such a fright.....
               
              By the way are there any Rum lovers out there who have tried inverting there sugars first?
              I'd like to know your experiences.
              Happy Halloween for Next Monday
              E
               
               


              --- On Tue, 10/25/11, harisaki2004 <ledaswan@...> wrote:

              From: harisaki2004 <ledaswan@...>
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Potassium Bicarbonate
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 12:19 PM

               
              Hello E.

              Ph adjustment is used in many ferments across the world. In the world of winemaking (hot climate) in my area we typically add tartaric acid to reduce pH. The more acid a ferment is, the cleaner the fermented wine. Yeasts dont like less than 3.0 pH though.

              Once the wine is fermented out to dryness it is then distilled the first time where a potassium carbonate addition to the distillate brings the Ph up to 7.0. This is used to neutralise any acetates etc.. to convert to alchohol before the second distillation.

              Now, some washes are fermented at higher pHs. As Harry has mentioned Sodium bicarb may give a salty taste where as potassium will not. No ill effects will occur in the small amounts used.

              Good luck with it. Importantly having a Ph meter is always a great help.

              Hari.

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "elmbrook@..." <elmbrook@...> wrote:
              >
              > Does anyone have experience using KHCO3 (potassium bicarbonate) to adjust the pH (raise the pH i.e., lower the acidity ) of a wash prior to adding yeast for fermentation. What I am looking for is information on any risks associated with the this bicarb and any benefits.
              >
              > Thanks
              > E
              >


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