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RE: [Distillers] Re: Aged dunder fermentation

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  • Gavin Flett
    Alex thank you so much, that was the information I have been looking for One thing I do need clarity on though. I was under the impression that I was to add
    Message 1 of 31 , Oct 15 10:07 AM
      Alex thank you so much, that was the information I have been looking for

      One thing I do need clarity on though. I was under the impression that I was to add the dunder to the fermentaion (instead of water). Is this not correct?

      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      From: castillo.alex2008@...
      Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:03:29 +0000
      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Aged dunder fermentation


      Sorry Gavin I missed this post, been busy these days.  My comments in line.

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gavinflett" <gavin_flett@...> wrote:
      > These are questions for Alex (or any Rum experts for that matter)
      > Alex, I am making Rum and have the backset from the last wash ageing to make dunder. I live in a temperate climate, so no quickened ageing process due to higher temps here. I read in one of your posts that yoghurt is to be added to the dunder in order to age it.

      > Did I read that correctly? If so, can I put in any yoghurt, such as Activia Vanilla flavoured yoghurt?
      Go for natural yogurt. In the event you don´t find it that vanilla one is ok.  I´ve also used greek yogurt with good results in the aroma side.

      > Do I need to do anything to the yoghurt prior to adding it to my dunder?
      No.  Just dump it there.

      > How long should I age the dunder before using it in another batch?
      There´s a white film or pellicle that will eventually appear on top of your "fermenting dunder".  Wait a couple of weeks, (months if you like) and you´re done.

      > Lastly, is the molasses I obtain from the local sugar refinery (located in the city I live in actually) going to contain any wild yeast?
      Probably, but don´t rely on those to make your fermentation. You may go ahead and use your favorite yeast.  Do know that, if using your own, a large amount must be used (i.e 1/4 cup of yeast), sprinkled on top for a few minutes, then mixed in the Must.  I don´t make starters.
       Is this the yeast I should be using to ferment the Rum (currently I am using Lavallin EC-1118)?
      The problem using wild yeast from molasses is that it may take a long time for a fermentation to take place, since you don´t have a big concentration of them, so you may get infected by bacteria, with bad results.
      Lalvin´s EC-1118 (Sacharomyces bayanus) is a good substitute of molasses´ wild yeast (Schizosaccharomyces pombe) since both produce little amount of esters, but good amounts of glycerol which promote esters produced by bacteria, (i.e.clostridiums from soils).
       However, I suggest you that for the first one use ol´ bread yeast to get some practice, since EC is expensive.  You may go all dunder without clarifying the molasses.  With a good amount of yeast (i.e. 1 cup) you´ll be on the road in matter of hours (around 48-72 hours). 
      If you can get it, grab Danstil EDV 493, it was isolated by INRA in the caribbean.  I bought mine via WhiteLabs.
      Use/add DAP.
      If you want to get a little more "complex" do add some aged cheese (i.e. emmenthal, or swiss or any other having "holes" in it) they promote the development of propionic acid, (due to the presence of propionibacterium freudenreichii ). Propionic acid is a chemical which promotes "rummy" aroma/flavor. 
      Also add some citric acid, which is also metabolized by yeast producing some short chain acids that again, promote esters.
      Finally distill over dunder, or much better over fermented Must for a "grand arome" like rum. 
      Do recycle feints!
      Ups! there go some of my secrets, lol


    • Carlos alberto Sanchez
      yo soy un verdadero milagro de la vida ________________________________ De: Chris Jude Para: Distillers@yahoogroups.com Enviado:
      Message 31 of 31 , Feb 22, 2013
        yo soy un verdadero milagro de la vida

        De: Chris Jude <vegbenz300@...>
        Para: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Enviado: domingo, 10 de febrero de 2013 20:19
        Asunto: Re: [Distillers] Re: Aged dunder fermentation

        reviving an old dead thread.

        I've got several quarts of first run sorghum distillate run by a friend who made no cuts, just gave me the whole run.  I want to run it through again to clean it up and remove the feints and the 35-50% cuts per Arroyo's method.  I've got some fresh sorghum runs that I save the backset and the rum oil cuts.  When doing this distillate run, could I dillute the liquor with the dunder for extra flavor, or should I cut it 50% with pure water?



        On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Alex Castillo <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
        Begin with dunder/water 50/50 (i.e. 10 liters water + 10 liters dunder) adding your molasses (i.e. 1 gallon), DAP (i.e. 1 Tbsp), citric acid (i.e. 1 Tbsp) and yeast (1/4 cup - 1 cup, hydrated or sprinkled on top, then mix).
        I suggest you to begin with bread yeast, since is inexpensive.  With time you may even go all dunder.
        Oxygenate/aireate well (i.e. aquarium pump 1-2 hours).
        Alternatively (instead of using dunder) would be interesting to try bacterial cultures (bretts, lactic, etc.) as secondary fermentations, or even dumping the yogurt after the primary fermentation to create the dunder efect "in situ", lol.  There´s plenty room for experimentation.  I like that!
        Please let us know how it went in your Jamaican craft, Gavin-rum!, lol
        Have fun...and keep it safe!

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