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Liebig Condenser

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  • eyendall
    For a Liebig condensor coming off a reflux still, should the cold water be introduced at the top or the bottom? I have been putting the cold water through the
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 29, 2011
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      For a Liebig condensor coming off a reflux still, should the cold water be introduced at the top or the bottom? I have been putting the cold water through the bottom but have just come across a Liebig diagram indicating the reverse. Does it make any difference? Thanks.
    • Fredrick Lee
      It makes a difference, but I think you were doing it correctly. Coldest water near the output.
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 29, 2011
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        It makes a difference, but I think you were doing it correctly. Coldest water near the output. 

        On Sep 29, 2011, at 10:04, "eyendall" <eric_yendall@...> wrote:

         

        For a Liebig condensor coming off a reflux still, should the cold water be introduced at the top or the bottom? I have been putting the cold water through the bottom but have just come across a Liebig diagram indicating the reverse. Does it make any difference? Thanks.

      • Bryan Bornais
        You want the cooling water to be counter flow to the vapour stream. You are right.   Cheers, Bryan ________________________________ From: eyendall
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 29, 2011
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          You want the cooling water to be counter flow to the vapour stream. You are right.
           
          Cheers,

          Bryan

          From: eyendall <eric_yendall@...>
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:04:56 AM
          Subject: [Distillers] Liebig Condenser

           
          For a Liebig condensor coming off a reflux still, should the cold water be introduced at the top or the bottom? I have been putting the cold water through the bottom but have just come across a Liebig diagram indicating the reverse. Does it make any difference? Thanks.



        • Max Norton
          Cold water should come in at the bottom. As the coil heats up the water, it rises to the top and is also pushed up by incoming cool water. The warm water is
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 30, 2011
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            Cold water should come in at the bottom. As the coil heats up the water, it rises to the top and is also pushed up by incoming cool water. The warm water is then drained off by the over flow. Thus you are continuously replacing warm water with cold water.
          • Thursty2
            ... Hi Max and fellow enthusiasts, Interesting discussion. With all due respects, the same would occur if the cold water were to enter at the other end. Water
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 30, 2011
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Max Norton <nortonshog@...> wrote:
              >
              > Cold water should come in at the bottom. As the coil heats up the water, it rises to the top and is also pushed up by incoming cool water. The warm water is then drained off by the over flow. Thus you are continuously replacing warm water with cold water.
              >
              Hi Max and fellow enthusiasts,

              Interesting discussion.

              With all due respects, the same would occur if the cold water were to enter at the other end.

              Water under pressure absorbs more heat before it boils - conversely less water is required to cause the same amount of cooling.

              So, in a free flowing condenser such as is used in the Nixon - Stone Reflux Still, the coil is the longest route to its bottom end, holding, at any given moment, the major volume (and weight) of all the water in the condenser. The straight (upstand?) part holds the minor (lighter) volume.

              As I see it, cold water entering the coil at the top, would cause some (albeit very minor) pressure because of the volume (and thus weight), and the propensity for the heated water to want to rise - to push back up the coil against the cold water entering.

              Therefore I believe it is more effective to have cold water entering at the coil and the heated water exiting up the straight part from the bottom.

              Not to be confused with a pressurised closed system such as that in a motor vehicle.
            • Harry
              I hate to burst your bubble Thursty. but there s a lot more to these heat exchangers (condensers) than mere reasoning . For instance, your idea of water
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011
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                I hate to burst your bubble Thursty. but there's a lot more to these heat exchangers (condensers) than mere 'reasoning'.
                For instance, your idea of water entering the top and exiting the bottom, doesn't take into account the constant separation of dissolved gases in the coolant feed. Bubbles form in the upper regions of the coil right where you want to feed the coolant. Ergo, coolant flow is disrupted, there's gas in the coil and the heat exchanger either works very poorly or ceases functioning altogether (not good with ethanol involved). Think 'vapor lock' in your old time carburetted fuel line. Same thing. There's lots of other 'ifs' involved too. Suggest you research heat exchangers. Start at my Library; Engineering section...
                Free to read online. Link in sigline.


                Slainte!
                regards Harry
                http://distillers.tastylime.net
                =======================================

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Thursty2" <thursty2@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Max Norton <nortonshog@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Cold water should come in at the bottom. As the coil heats up the water, it rises to the top and is also pushed up by incoming cool water. The warm water is then drained off by the over flow. Thus you are continuously replacing warm water with cold water.
                > >
                > Hi Max and fellow enthusiasts,
                >
                > Interesting discussion.
                >
                > With all due respects, the same would occur if the cold water were to enter at the other end.
                >
                > Water under pressure absorbs more heat before it boils - conversely less water is required to cause the same amount of cooling.
                >
                > So, in a free flowing condenser such as is used in the Nixon - Stone Reflux Still, the coil is the longest route to its bottom end, holding, at any given moment, the major volume (and weight) of all the water in the condenser. The straight (upstand?) part holds the minor (lighter) volume.
                >
                > As I see it, cold water entering the coil at the top, would cause some (albeit very minor) pressure because of the volume (and thus weight), and the propensity for the heated water to want to rise - to push back up the coil against the cold water entering.
                >
                > Therefore I believe it is more effective to have cold water entering at the coil and the heated water exiting up the straight part from the bottom.
                >
                > Not to be confused with a pressurised closed system such as that in a motor vehicle.
                >
              • KM Services
                Here is a thread on my liebig posted on New Distillers which could be of help.this condenser works very well.. http://tinyurl.com/43l856o Ken Mc (This is my
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011
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                  Here is a thread on my liebig posted on New Distillers which could be of help…this condenser works very well…. http://tinyurl.com/43l856o

                   

                   

                   

                  Ken Mc (This is my opinion and if I am wrong I will be corrected I am sure)

                   


                  From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry
                  Sent: Saturday, 1 October 2011 10:19 p.m.
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: Liebig Condenser

                   

                   

                  I hate to burst your bubble Thursty. but there's a lot more to these heat exchangers (condensers) than mere 'reasoning'.
                  For instance, your idea of water entering the top and exiting the bottom, doesn't take into account the constant separation of dissolved gases in the coolant feed. Bubbles form in the upper regions of the coil right where you want to feed the coolant. Ergo, coolant flow is disrupted, there's gas in the coil and the heat exchanger either works very poorly or ceases functioning altogether (not good with ethanol involved). Think 'vapor lock' in your old time carburetted fuel line. Same thing. There's lots of other 'ifs' involved too. Suggest you research heat exchangers. Start at my Library; Engineering section...
                  Free to read online. Link in sigline.

                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                  http://distillers.tastylime.net
                  =======================================

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Thursty2" <thursty2@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com,
                  Max Norton <nortonshog@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Cold water should come in at the bottom. As the coil heats up the
                  water, it rises to the top and is also pushed up by incoming cool water. The warm water is then drained off by the over flow. Thus you are continuously replacing warm water with cold water.
                  > >
                  > Hi Max and fellow enthusiasts,
                  >
                  > Interesting discussion.
                  >
                  > With all due respects, the same would occur if the cold water were to
                  enter at the other end.
                  >
                  > Water under pressure absorbs more heat before it boils - conversely less
                  water is required to cause the same amount of cooling.
                  >
                  > So, in a free flowing condenser such as is used in the Nixon - Stone
                  Reflux Still, the coil is the longest route to its bottom end, holding, at any given moment, the major volume (and weight) of all the water in the condenser. The straight (upstand?) part holds the minor (lighter) volume.
                  >
                  > As I see it, cold water entering the coil at the top, would cause some
                  (albeit very minor) pressure because of the volume (and thus weight), and the propensity for the heated water to want to rise - to push back up the coil against the cold water entering.
                  >
                  > Therefore I believe it is more effective to have cold water entering at
                  the coil and the heated water exiting up the straight part from the bottom.
                  >
                  > Not to be confused with a pressurised closed system such as that in a
                  motor vehicle.
                  >

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