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cold temperature distilling

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  • Mitt
    Hi Guys, I know that you can distill by freezing wine and then letting the alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up inside your
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 13, 2010
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      Hi Guys,
      I know that you can "distill" by freezing wine and then letting the alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up inside your house and ran a coil outside during winter. Like -25 C out side. Would the wine distill due to the different temperatures (slowly for sure, but still...)
      Open to your thoughts on this.
      M
    • goodneighbor69
      ... are you kidding? this makes no sense at all are you thinking you need a still to freeze distill, if you do then you need to get over to New Distillers
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 14, 2010
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitt" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Guys,
        > I know that you can "distill" by freezing wine and then letting the alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up inside your house and ran a coil outside during winter. Like -25 C out side. Would the wine distill due to the different temperatures (slowly for sure, but still...)
        > Open to your thoughts on this.
        > M
        >


        are you kidding? this makes no sense at all

        are you thinking you need a still to freeze distill, if you do then you need to get over to New Distillers
      • jamesonbeam1
        Hey Mitt, You dont need a still for freeze distilling or fractional crystalization as it is called. The old timers would take their fermentation (mostly
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 17, 2010
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          Hey Mitt,

          You dont need a still for freeze distilling or "fractional crystalization" as it is called.  The old timers would take their fermentation (mostly hard cider in the old days, which was around 10 to 12% ABV) and stick it in the barrel in the cold outside.

          Depending on the temperature, the colder it got, the more alcohol would come up thru the ice into the middle.  But you really need cold temps to get a good concentration.  Heres an excerpt from making applejack, which can be applied to any wine:

          Applejack is made by storing completely finished apple wine at
          below freezing temperatures. What happens is the water that is
          in the apple wine freezes and rises to the top while the alcohol
          stays in liquid form - a process known as fractional crystal-
          lization. Each day you simply scoop off the ice that has formed,
          causing the alcohol and the apple flavor that is left behind to
          become more concentrated.

          Each day you will notice that the amount of ice that is forming
          will be less and less, until eventually no more ice will form at
          all at that particular temperature. The following will give you
          an idea of how concentrated the alcohol can become at a given
          temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid
          reaches 14% alcohol by volume. At 10 below ice will form until it
          reaches 20%. At 20 below 27% can be made. And, at 30 below

          33% alcohol can be obtained.

          Applejack was very popular among the New England colonies.
          Barrels of apple wine would be set out in sheds during January
          and February when the temperatures where blistering cold. And,

          by first thaw it would be ready to drink.

          If it does not get all that cold in your area, the same effect
          can be duplicated by using a deep freezer. Do not use glass
          containers as they as they will more than likely crack. A soft
          plastic, food-grade pail with lid seems to work well for this
          purpose. Just put your apple wine in the deep freezer, set the
          thermostat as low as it will go. Then every day scoop off the
          ice, until there is no more ice to scoop.

          The alcohol level the wine starts out at is not all that
          important. Whether it is 8% or 12% the same concentration level
          will eventually be reached regardless. The only thing that
          changes is the amount of ice you will need to remove to get to
          that point.

          Another thing to note here is that while traditionally this
          method is applied to apple wines, it can also be applied to other
          wines just the same. Other good candidates would be: Pear, Mead,
          Watermelon, Peach, Strawberry - primarily fruits that do not have
          a strong, assertive flavor to begin with. Have fun and experiment
          with a gallon or two. 
          http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html

           

          Good Luck,

           

          JB aka Waldo.


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "goodneighbor69" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitt" mstehelin@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Guys,
          > > I know that you can "distill" by freezing wine and then letting the alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up inside your house and ran a coil outside during winter. Like -25 C out side. Would the wine distill due to the different temperatures (slowly for sure, but still...)
          > > Open to your thoughts on this.
          > > M
          > >
          >
          >
          > are you kidding? this makes no sense at all
          >
          > are you thinking you need a still to freeze distill, if you do then you need to get over to New Distillers
          >

        • Todd Stewart
          Is there a problem with freeze distilling and NOT drawing off the heads?? Since, aren t you technically concentrating the bad parts too??
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 17, 2010
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            Is there a problem with freeze distilling and NOT drawing off the heads?? Since, aren't you technically
            concentrating the bad parts too??


            From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 8:19:29 AM
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: cold temperature distilling

             

            Hey Mitt,

            You dont need a still for freeze distilling or "fractional crystalization" as it is called.  The old timers would take their fermentation (mostly hard cider in the old days, which was around 10 to 12% ABV) and stick it in the barrel in the cold outside.

            Depending on the temperature, the colder it got, the more alcohol would come up thru the ice into the middle.  But you really need cold temps to get a good concentration.  Heres an excerpt from making applejack, which can be applied to any wine:

            Applejack is made by storing completely finished apple wine at
            below freezing temperatures. What happens is the water that is
            in the apple wine freezes and rises to the top while the alcohol
            stays in liquid form - a process known as fractional crystal-
            lization. Each day you simply scoop off the ice that has formed,
            causing the alcohol and the apple flavor that is left behind to
            become more concentrated.

            Each day you will notice that the amount of ice that is forming
            will be less and less, until eventually no more ice will form at
            all at that particular temperature. The following will give you
            an idea of how concentrated the alcohol can become at a given
            temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid
            reaches 14% alcohol by volume. At 10 below ice will form until it
            reaches 20%. At 20 below 27% can be made. And, at 30 below

            33% alcohol can be obtained.

            Applejack was very popular among the New England colonies.
            Barrels of apple wine would be set out in sheds during January
            and February when the temperatures where blistering cold. And,

            by first thaw it would be ready to drink.

            If it does not get all that cold in your area, the same effect
            can be duplicated by using a deep freezer. Do not use glass
            containers as they as they will more than likely crack. A soft
            plastic, food-grade pail with lid seems to work well for this
            purpose. Just put your apple wine in the deep freezer, set the
            thermostat as low as it will go. Then every day scoop off the
            ice, until there is no more ice to scoop.

            The alcohol level the wine starts out at is not all that
            important. Whether it is 8% or 12% the same concentration level
            will eventually be reached regardless. The only thing that
            changes is the amount of ice you will need to remove to get to
            that point.

            Another thing to note here is that while traditionally this
            method is applied to apple wines, it can also be applied to other
            wines just the same. Other good candidates would be: Pear, Mead,
            Watermelon, Peach, Strawberry - primarily fruits that do not have
            a strong, assertive flavor to begin with. Have fun and experiment
            with a gallon or two. 
            http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html

             

            Good Luck,

             

            JB aka Waldo.


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "goodneighbor69" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitt" mstehelin@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Guys,
            > > I know that you can "distill" by freezing wine and then letting the alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up inside your house and ran a coil outside during winter. Like -25 C out side. Would the wine distill due to the different temperatures (slowly for sure, but still...)
            > > Open to your thoughts on this.
            > > M
            > >
            >
            >
            > are you kidding? this makes no sense at all
            >
            > are you thinking you need a still to freeze distill, if you do then you need to get over to New Distillers
            >


          • Eddie Hoskin
            Well, yes and no. While it is true that you are not separating the less savory parts of the distillate, compare it to drinking the cider straight--you are
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 17, 2010
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              Well, yes and no.  While it is true that you are not separating the less savory parts of the distillate, compare it to drinking the cider straight--you are simply concentrating it into a smaller form.  It can do no more harm to you than that. 

              Eddie



              From: Todd Stewart <xlcranium@...>
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 7:50:47 PM
              Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: cold temperature distilling

               

              Is there a problem with freeze distilling and NOT drawing off the heads?? Since, aren't you technically
              concentrating the bad parts too??


              From: jamesonbeam1 <jamesonbeam1@...>
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, December 17, 2010 8:19:29 AM
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: cold temperature distilling

               

              Hey Mitt,

              You dont need a still for freeze distilling or "fractional crystalization" as it is called.  The old timers would take their fermentation (mostly hard cider in the old days, which was around 10 to 12% ABV) and stick it in the barrel in the cold outside.

              Depending on the temperature, the colder it got, the more alcohol would come up thru the ice into the middle.  But you really need cold temps to get a good concentration.  Heres an excerpt from making applejack, which can be applied to any wine:

              Applejack is made by storing completely finished apple wine at
              below freezing temperatures. What happens is the water that is
              in the apple wine freezes and rises to the top while the alcohol
              stays in liquid form - a process known as fractional crystal-
              lization. Each day you simply scoop off the ice that has formed,
              causing the alcohol and the apple flavor that is left behind to
              become more concentrated.

              Each day you will notice that the amount of ice that is forming
              will be less and less, until eventually no more ice will form at
              all at that particular temperature. The following will give you
              an idea of how concentrated the alcohol can become at a given
              temperature: at zero degrees ice will form until the liquid
              reaches 14% alcohol by volume. At 10 below ice will form until it
              reaches 20%. At 20 below 27% can be made. And, at 30 below

              33% alcohol can be obtained.

              Applejack was very popular among the New England colonies.
              Barrels of apple wine would be set out in sheds during January
              and February when the temperatures where blistering cold. And,

              by first thaw it would be ready to drink.

              If it does not get all that cold in your area, the same effect
              can be duplicated by using a deep freezer. Do not use glass
              containers as they as they will more than likely crack. A soft
              plastic, food-grade pail with lid seems to work well for this
              purpose. Just put your apple wine in the deep freezer, set the
              thermostat as low as it will go. Then every day scoop off the
              ice, until there is no more ice to scoop.

              The alcohol level the wine starts out at is not all that
              important. Whether it is 8% or 12% the same concentration level
              will eventually be reached regardless. The only thing that
              changes is the amount of ice you will need to remove to get to
              that point.

              Another thing to note here is that while traditionally this
              method is applied to apple wines, it can also be applied to other
              wines just the same. Other good candidates would be: Pear, Mead,
              Watermelon, Peach, Strawberry - primarily fruits that do not have
              a strong, assertive flavor to begin with. Have fun and experiment
              with a gallon or two. 
              http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-applejack.html

               

              Good Luck,

               

              JB aka Waldo.


              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "goodneighbor69" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitt" mstehelin@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Guys,
              > > I know that you can "distill" by freezing wine and then letting the alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up inside your house and ran a coil outside during winter. Like -25 C out side. Would the wine distill due to the different temperatures (slowly for sure, but still...)
              > > Open to your thoughts on this.
              > > M
              > >
              >
              >
              > are you kidding? this makes no sense at all
              >
              > are you thinking you need a still to freeze distill, if you do then you need to get over to New Distillers
              >



            • Mitt
              Sorry, sorry. I am not referring to freeze distilling. I am talking about taking advantage of the temperature differnces between a warm house and a cold
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 30, 2010
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                Sorry, sorry.
                I am not referring to freeze distilling. I am talking about taking advantage of the temperature differnces between a warm house and a cold environment. There is evaporation even at lower temps. Thats, what I was referring to.
                Cheers
                M


                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitt" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Guys,
                > I know that you can "distill" by freezing wine and then letting the alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up inside your house and ran a coil outside during winter. Like -25 C out side. Would the wine distill due to the different temperatures (slowly for sure, but still...)
                > Open to your thoughts on this.
                > M
                >
              • geoff burrows
                Hi Mitt, The amazing still works on that principle, low temperature evapouration (45-50C) I started with this before I found these forum. It strips a 5 gall
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 30, 2010
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                  Hi Mitt,
                  The amazing still works on that principle, low temperature evapouration (45-50C)  I started with this before I found these forum. It strips a 5 gall wash great without having to watch the temp all the time.  Add a few of these stripped washes together, dilute and do a pot still run making all the cuts and you will still retain all your flavours
                  HTH
                  Geoff
                  PS link to Amazing Still below 
                   
                • jamesonbeam1
                  Mitt, Litte confused here. You either evaporate the alcohol from the water solution using high heat as in a regular still or at lower temps using something
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 1, 2011
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                    Mitt,

                    Litte confused here. You either evaporate the alcohol from the water
                    solution using high heat as in a regular still or at lower temps using
                    something like the amazing still as Geoff mentioned.

                    On the other extreme, since alcohol freezes at a lower temp then water,
                    freeze distilling or factional crystalization is the other method to
                    increase ABV.

                    I still dont understand what you getting at between a warm house and
                    cold environment. If you run a coil to the cold outside then back
                    inside, then it will just heat back up with no ice forming which would
                    block the line up anyways???

                    JB. aka Waldo.


                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitt" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Sorry, sorry.
                    > I am not referring to freeze distilling. I am talking about taking
                    advantage of the temperature differnces between a warm house and a cold
                    environment. There is evaporation even at lower temps. Thats, what I was
                    referring to.
                    > Cheers
                    > M
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mitt" mstehelin@ wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Guys,
                    > > I know that you can "distill" by freezing wine and then letting the
                    alcohol drip out leaving the water in ice.. But what if you set up
                    inside your house and ran a coil outside during winter. Like -25 C out
                    side. Would the wine distill due to the different temperatures (slowly
                    for sure, but still...)
                    > > Open to your thoughts on this.
                    > > M
                    > >
                    >
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