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Re: Other yeasts for rum

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Alex, Not trying to answer for Harry, but in my experience the malolactic fermentation (MLF) usually occurs after the primary fermentation has completed and
    Message 1 of 50 , Dec 6, 2010
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      Alex,
      Not trying to answer for Harry, but in my experience the malolactic fermentation (MLF) usually occurs after the primary fermentation has completed and the sugars have been converted. Of course my first experience was a mistake made by using old milk containers to ferment my apple wine, hence the bacteria was there to begin with.
      Im sure if you add the yogurt (non-pasturized), after adding the yeast, it would not hurt, but wait to see if there is a secondary fermentation (after the sugar has been converted). This is the sign of a MLF fermentation.

      Again the main bacteria for this process is the family of lactic acid bacteria (LAB); Oenococcus oeni, and various species of Lactobacillus and Pediococcus. In cheese making, the milk is first soured/acidified by adding vinegar or rennet. The starter bacteria convert milk sugars into lactic acid. The same bacteria (and the enzymes they produce) also play a large role in the eventual flavor of aged cheeses. Most cheeses are made with starter bacteria from the Lactococci, Lactobacilli, or Streptococci families, which is similar to the MLF process. The main question we have for Harry is if there is sufficient amounts of malic acid in molasses ferentations to make this conversion to lactic acid happen...

      JB aka Waldo.

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Castillo" <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
      >
      > > Damn, Jim. I thought I was the only one. Next time try a little natural yoghurt culture (not flavored, or if you must, the vanilla one). About 100gm in a 30L ferment. Live Lactobacillus Acidophilus culture makes a very nice smooth variation to fermented & distilled products. Cheers.
      > >
      > >
      > > Slainte!
      > > regards Harry
      > > http://distillers.tastylime.net/library/
      > >
      >
      > Hey Harry,
      >
      > When will it be the right time to add it (yoghurt)? My guess, according to Arroyo is short time after (24 hours?) (active) yeast, to give it some time to produce ethanol and its (yeasts) esters. In the other hand I think these bacteria produces both acids and alcohols. Again experience is a better teacher I guess; Did you tried it on molasses? Thinking in the bacteria used for cheese, is the same one?
      >
      > Alex
      >
    • waljaco
      Normally there is enough lactic bacteria in the air - just leave some milk out and see what happens. Some strains can actually spoil wine. Look up malo-lactic
      Message 50 of 50 , Feb 10, 2011
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        Normally there is enough lactic bacteria in the air - just leave some milk out and see what happens. Some strains can actually spoil wine. Look up malo-lactic fermentation. In Jamaica they just leave dunder to mother nature.
        wal

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mav" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Alex for your very detailed reply.
        >
        > I have no problems with aging my dunder but I was curious to hear about the end result, like what difference does it make to the final spirit? Or, does it improve the mouth feel? And so on.
        >
        > I have a probiotic drink called "inner gy", made by Vaalia. It has Lactobacillus GG, Bifidobacterium and L.Acidophilus. So I'll try using it to see what happens with about 60 L of molasses wash. If any thing good comes out of it, I'll post back here.
        >
        > Cheers
        > Marc
        >
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Castillo" <castillo.alex2008@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Hey Marc
        > >
        > > In fact that aged dunder (almost two months now) is resting in a HDPE 20 liters bucket in my "lab" since (by accident) I discovered that just "abandoning" some dunder in a fermenter gets aged in no time (days) and I observed the same "infection" (white film/cap on top of dunder) that the one I observed in the yogurt/cheese infected dunder pit; so now instead I´m working on the "naturally aged" dunder. Even using the cap part fermented good: nice aroma and increased yield! now after the spirit run that booze is aging with american + french oaks (some at around 60% and some other at 83% ABV for lacking room in the glass jug); that natural quick aging maybe happens around here b/c we´re in the tropics (around here people turn ACs in February, lol so is hot!) so after aging and diluting I´ll let you know about the taste.
        > >
        > > In the other hand, if you are in a cold weather and want to promote MLF in your dunder or wash those lactic bateria are very affordable in pure form. You want two kinds: lactic and propionic bacteria; better a cocktail of them all. here are the ones you can get:
        > >
        > > Set 1:
        > > s.lactis, s. cremoris, s. lactis biovar diacetylactis, m.s. cremoris (those four are called "flora danica" run for US$15.95
        > >
        > > Set 2:
        > > l. acidophilus, bifidobacterium species, s.thermophilus, l.delbrueckii, those are for "sweet yogurt" US$5.95/pack
        > >
        > > Set 3:
        > > same as above but includes s. bulgaricus and s.lactis for "tangy" yogurt, again US$5.95/pack
        > >
        > > Set 4:
        > > Propionic shermanii, for US$12.95 (this is the one responsible for the "eyes" of swiss cheese).
        > >
        > > Set 5:
        > > s.thermophilus, d.s. lactis, s. helveticus (these are the ones used for Italian cheese such as Parmesan, Mozzarella, etc.) those for US$ 5.95 pack
        > >
        > > s.= Streptococcus; l.= lactobacillus
        > >
        > > I found those here: http://tinyurl.com/27l5hpo
        > >
        > >
        > > Lactic fermentation occurs in the surface of the fermentation.
        > > Clarify your wash for eliminating the probability of other yeasts or bateria to take part of the "party", or don´t if you want they (and clostridium which are bacteria from soil) take part. I´ve done both.
        > > So
        > > You may either ferment your dunder or give your wash a double fermentation. (if using this second technique pull for no more than 1.060 SG or simply the amount of alcohol won´t let bacteria develop. Just dump ´em after yeast fermentation is over (1.020 for molasses wash in my case), wait ´til the cap appears (´round one week) then distill.
        > >
        > > Molasses do have malic acid which will turn to lactic acid.(if using much brown sugar simply peel/mash and add an apple for malic acid, I´ve heared they do it in dunder pits in Jamaica, but hard to beleive).
        > >
        > > According to Fahrasmane and Ganou-Parfait (people for INRA who isolated EDV 493) lactic fermentation are even more important than yeast for the flavor of rum, specially propionic which gives a "terroir" booze.
        > >
        > > I warn you though that MLF may produce ethyl carbamate which is a known carcinogenic, but in the other hand it has been detected even in whiskey.
        > >
        > > Now go for a great rum!
        > >
        > > HTH
        > >
        > > Alex
        > >
        >
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