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Oaking (was) Re: Adding hydrogen peroxide to aging liquors

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  • Harry
    ... Define better . Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore... Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
      >
      > for the sake of discussion ill say
      > Black Seal
      > Bermuda
      >
      > i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
      > is it better to age rum at higher abv?
      >


      Define "better". Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore...

      "Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute their spirits to nearly bottle-strength, 40 to 45% alcohol by volume, before putting the barrels away for aging. A lower alcohol content during aging tends to leech slightly lighter esters and phenols from the wooden barrels while a higher alcohol content will attract heavier compounds and associated flavors."

      Source: http://www.ministryofrum.com/article_age_matters.php


      Slainte!
      regards Harry
    • Pete H
      This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel: http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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        This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

        http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

        seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

        Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

        ------------------------------

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
        >
        > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
        > wal
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
        > >
        > > ------------------------------
        > >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
        > > > wal
        > > >
        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
        > > > >
        > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
        > > > >
        > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
        > > > >
        > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
        > > > >
        > > > > ------------------------------
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi Wal
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • waljaco
        I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual. wal
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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          I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual.
          wal

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
          >
          > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
          > wal
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
          > >
          > > ------------------------------
          > >
          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
          > > > wal
          > > >
          > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
          > > > >
          > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
          > > > >
          > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
          > > > >
          > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
          > > > >
          > > > > ------------------------------
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Hi Wal
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Paul Williams
          I like the boomerang keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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            I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea


            On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:

             



            This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

            http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

            seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

            Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

            ------------------------------

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
            >
            > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
            > wal
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
            > >
            > > ------------------------------
            > >
            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
            > > > wal
            > > >
            > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
            > > > >
            > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
            > > > >
            > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
            > > > >
            > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
            > > > >
            > > > > ------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi Wal
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >


          • Pete H
            Thanks Paul, I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine. I do have to
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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              Thanks Paul,

              I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine.

              I do have to investigate a better gasket material. The foam I have eventually collapses with the weight and heat, and then I have to cut a replacement.

              A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.

              -------------------------

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Williams <paul.stewart.williams@...> wrote:
              >
              > I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
              >
              >
              > On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:
              > >
              > > http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg
            • *
              ... how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.


                how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
              • Pete H
                Hadn t thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out. Thanks *
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                  Hadn't thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out.

                  Thanks *

                  -------------------------

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.
                  >
                  >
                  > how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                  >
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