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Oaking (was) Re: Adding hydrogen peroxide to aging liquors

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  • *
    ... what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151 s are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
      >
      > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
      > wal
      >




      what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's

      are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
    • waljaco
      The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv. wal
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
        The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
        wal

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@...> wrote:
        >
        > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
        >
        > ------------------------------
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
        > > wal
        > >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
        > > >
        > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
        > > >
        > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
        > > >
        > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Wal
        > > > >
        > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
        > > > >
        > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
        > > > >
        > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
        > > > >
        > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
        > > > >
        > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • waljaco
        Don t know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant. wal
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
          Don't know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant.
          wal

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
          > > wal
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
          >
          > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
          >
        • jamesonbeam1
          Good, Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to specify which
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
            Good,

            Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
            country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
            specify which 151 your talking about.

            JB.


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" waljaco@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and
            alcohol soluble components in oak.
            > > wal
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
            >
            > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
            >
          • *
            ... for the sake of discussion ill say Black Seal Bermuda i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Good,
              >
              > Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
              > country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
              > specify which 151 your talking about.
              >
              > JB.
              >
              >

              for the sake of discussion ill say
              Black Seal
              Bermuda

              i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
              is it better to age rum at higher abv?
            • Harry
              ... Define better . Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore... Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                >
                > for the sake of discussion ill say
                > Black Seal
                > Bermuda
                >
                > i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
                > is it better to age rum at higher abv?
                >


                Define "better". Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore...

                "Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute their spirits to nearly bottle-strength, 40 to 45% alcohol by volume, before putting the barrels away for aging. A lower alcohol content during aging tends to leech slightly lighter esters and phenols from the wooden barrels while a higher alcohol content will attract heavier compounds and associated flavors."

                Source: http://www.ministryofrum.com/article_age_matters.php


                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • Pete H
                This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel: http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                  This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                  http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                  seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                  Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                  ------------------------------

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                  > wal
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------------
                  > >
                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                  > > > wal
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ------------------------------
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi Wal
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • waljaco
                  I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual. wal
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                    I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual.
                    wal

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                    > wal
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                    > > > wal
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ------------------------------
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi Wal
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Paul Williams
                    I like the boomerang keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                      I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea


                      On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:

                       



                      This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                      http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                      seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                      Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                      ------------------------------

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                      > wal
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                      > > > wal
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi Wal
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >


                    • Pete H
                      Thanks Paul, I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine. I do have to
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                        Thanks Paul,

                        I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine.

                        I do have to investigate a better gasket material. The foam I have eventually collapses with the weight and heat, and then I have to cut a replacement.

                        A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.

                        -------------------------

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Williams <paul.stewart.williams@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                        >
                        >
                        > On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:
                        > >
                        > > http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg
                      • *
                        ... how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                          > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.


                          how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                        • Pete H
                          Hadn t thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out. Thanks *
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                            Hadn't thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out.

                            Thanks *

                            -------------------------

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.
                            >
                            >
                            > how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                            >
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