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Oaking (was) Re: Adding hydrogen peroxide to aging liquors

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  • waljaco
    Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak. wal
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
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      Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
      wal

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@...> wrote:
      >
      > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
      >
      > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
      >
      > So far, I'm liking the taste.
      >
      > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
      >
      > ------------------------------
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Wal
      > >
      > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
      > >
      > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
      > >
      > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
      > >
      > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
      > >
      > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
      > >
      >
    • Pete H
      Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
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        Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.

        ------------------------------

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
        >
        > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
        > wal
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
        > >
        > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
        > >
        > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
        > >
        > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
        > >
        > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
        > >
        > > ------------------------------
        > >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi Wal
        > > >
        > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
        > > >
        > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
        > > >
        > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
        > > >
        > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
        > > >
        > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • *
        ... what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151 s are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
          >
          > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
          > wal
          >




          what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's

          are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
        • waljaco
          The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv. wal
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
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            The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
            wal

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@...> wrote:
            >
            > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
            >
            > ------------------------------
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
            > > wal
            > >
            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
            > > >
            > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
            > > >
            > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
            > > >
            > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi Wal
            > > > >
            > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
            > > > >
            > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
            > > > >
            > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
            > > > >
            > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
            > > > >
            > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • waljaco
            Don t know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant. wal
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
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              Don't know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant.
              wal

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
              > > wal
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
              >
              > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
              >
            • jamesonbeam1
              Good, Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to specify which
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
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                Good,

                Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
                country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
                specify which 151 your talking about.

                JB.


                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" waljaco@ wrote:
                > >
                > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and
                alcohol soluble components in oak.
                > > wal
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
                >
                > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
                >
              • *
                ... for the sake of discussion ill say Black Seal Bermuda i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Good,
                  >
                  > Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
                  > country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
                  > specify which 151 your talking about.
                  >
                  > JB.
                  >
                  >

                  for the sake of discussion ill say
                  Black Seal
                  Bermuda

                  i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
                  is it better to age rum at higher abv?
                • Harry
                  ... Define better . Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore... Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > for the sake of discussion ill say
                    > Black Seal
                    > Bermuda
                    >
                    > i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
                    > is it better to age rum at higher abv?
                    >


                    Define "better". Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore...

                    "Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute their spirits to nearly bottle-strength, 40 to 45% alcohol by volume, before putting the barrels away for aging. A lower alcohol content during aging tends to leech slightly lighter esters and phenols from the wooden barrels while a higher alcohol content will attract heavier compounds and associated flavors."

                    Source: http://www.ministryofrum.com/article_age_matters.php


                    Slainte!
                    regards Harry
                  • Pete H
                    This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel: http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                      This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                      http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                      seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                      Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                      ------------------------------

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                      > wal
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                      > > > wal
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ------------------------------
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi Wal
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • waljaco
                      I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual. wal
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                        I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual.
                        wal

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                        > wal
                        >
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                        > > > wal
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ------------------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hi Wal
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Paul Williams
                        I like the boomerang keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                          I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea


                          On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:

                           



                          This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                          http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                          seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                          Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                          ------------------------------

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                          > wal
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                          > > > wal
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ------------------------------
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hi Wal
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >


                        • Pete H
                          Thanks Paul, I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine. I do have to
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                            Thanks Paul,

                            I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine.

                            I do have to investigate a better gasket material. The foam I have eventually collapses with the weight and heat, and then I have to cut a replacement.

                            A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.

                            -------------------------

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Williams <paul.stewart.williams@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                            >
                            >
                            > On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:
                            > >
                            > > http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg
                          • *
                            ... how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                              > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.


                              how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                            • Pete H
                              Hadn t thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out. Thanks *
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                                Hadn't thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out.

                                Thanks *

                                -------------------------

                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.
                                >
                                >
                                > how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                                >
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