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Oaking (was) Re: Adding hydrogen peroxide to aging liquors

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  • waljaco
    If you do the calculations, 5g/l is equivalent to a 200l oak barrel. wal
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
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      If you do the calculations, 5g/l is equivalent to a 200l oak barrel.
      wal

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Wal
      >
      > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
      >
      > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
      >
      > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
      >
      > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
      >
      > All a part of the fun of the craft.
      >
    • waljaco
      Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak. wal
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
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        Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
        wal

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@...> wrote:
        >
        > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
        >
        > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
        >
        > So far, I'm liking the taste.
        >
        > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
        >
        > ------------------------------
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Wal
        > >
        > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
        > >
        > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
        > >
        > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
        > >
        > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
        > >
        > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
        > >
        >
      • Pete H
        Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
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          Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.

          ------------------------------

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
          >
          > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
          > wal
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
          > >
          > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
          > >
          > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
          > >
          > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
          > >
          > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
          > >
          > > ------------------------------
          > >
          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Wal
          > > >
          > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
          > > >
          > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
          > > >
          > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
          > > >
          > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
          > > >
          > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • *
          ... what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151 s are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
            >
            > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
            > wal
            >




            what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's

            are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
          • waljaco
            The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv. wal
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
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              The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
              wal

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@...> wrote:
              >
              > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
              >
              > ------------------------------
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
              > > wal
              > >
              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
              > > >
              > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
              > > >
              > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
              > > >
              > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi Wal
              > > > >
              > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
              > > > >
              > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
              > > > >
              > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
              > > > >
              > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
              > > > >
              > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • waljaco
              Don t know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant. wal
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
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                Don't know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant.
                wal

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                > > wal
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
                >
                > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
                >
              • jamesonbeam1
                Good, Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to specify which
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
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                  Good,

                  Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
                  country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
                  specify which 151 your talking about.

                  JB.


                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" waljaco@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and
                  alcohol soluble components in oak.
                  > > wal
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
                  >
                  > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
                  >
                • *
                  ... for the sake of discussion ill say Black Seal Bermuda i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Good,
                    >
                    > Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
                    > country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
                    > specify which 151 your talking about.
                    >
                    > JB.
                    >
                    >

                    for the sake of discussion ill say
                    Black Seal
                    Bermuda

                    i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
                    is it better to age rum at higher abv?
                  • Harry
                    ... Define better . Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore... Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
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                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > for the sake of discussion ill say
                      > Black Seal
                      > Bermuda
                      >
                      > i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
                      > is it better to age rum at higher abv?
                      >


                      Define "better". Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore...

                      "Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute their spirits to nearly bottle-strength, 40 to 45% alcohol by volume, before putting the barrels away for aging. A lower alcohol content during aging tends to leech slightly lighter esters and phenols from the wooden barrels while a higher alcohol content will attract heavier compounds and associated flavors."

                      Source: http://www.ministryofrum.com/article_age_matters.php


                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • Pete H
                      This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel: http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                        This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                        http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                        seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                        Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                        ------------------------------

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                        > wal
                        >
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                        > > > wal
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ------------------------------
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hi Wal
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • waljaco
                        I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual. wal
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                          I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual.
                          wal

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                          > wal
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                          > >
                          > > ------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                          > > > wal
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ------------------------------
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hi Wal
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Paul Williams
                          I like the boomerang keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                            I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea


                            On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:

                             



                            This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                            http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                            seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                            Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                            ------------------------------

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                            > wal
                            >
                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                            > > > wal
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ------------------------------
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Hi Wal
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >


                          • Pete H
                            Thanks Paul, I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine. I do have to
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                              Thanks Paul,

                              I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine.

                              I do have to investigate a better gasket material. The foam I have eventually collapses with the weight and heat, and then I have to cut a replacement.

                              A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.

                              -------------------------

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Williams <paul.stewart.williams@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                              >
                              >
                              > On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:
                              > >
                              > > http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg
                            • *
                              ... how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                                > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.


                                how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                              • Pete H
                                Hadn t thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out. Thanks *
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
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                                  Hadn't thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out.

                                  Thanks *

                                  -------------------------

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                                  >
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