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Oaking (was) Re: Adding hydrogen peroxide to aging liquors

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  • atticpc
    Hi Wal I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again. Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 1, 2010
      Hi Wal

      I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.

      Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.

      One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.

      The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.

      All a part of the fun of the craft.
    • Pete H
      My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty s are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
        My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.

        When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.

        So far, I'm liking the taste.

        In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?

        ------------------------------

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Wal
        >
        > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
        >
        > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
        >
        > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
        >
        > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
        >
        > All a part of the fun of the craft.
        >
      • waljaco
        If you do the calculations, 5g/l is equivalent to a 200l oak barrel. wal
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
          If you do the calculations, 5g/l is equivalent to a 200l oak barrel.
          wal

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Wal
          >
          > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
          >
          > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
          >
          > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
          >
          > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
          >
          > All a part of the fun of the craft.
          >
        • waljaco
          Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak. wal
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
            Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
            wal

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@...> wrote:
            >
            > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
            >
            > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
            >
            > So far, I'm liking the taste.
            >
            > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
            >
            > ------------------------------
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Wal
            > >
            > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
            > >
            > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
            > >
            > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
            > >
            > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
            > >
            > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
            > >
            >
          • Pete H
            Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
              Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.

              ------------------------------

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
              >
              > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
              > wal
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
              > >
              > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
              > >
              > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
              > >
              > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
              > >
              > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
              > >
              > > ------------------------------
              > >
              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Wal
              > > >
              > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
              > > >
              > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
              > > >
              > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
              > > >
              > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
              > > >
              > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • *
              ... what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151 s are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 2, 2010
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                >
                > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                > wal
                >




                what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's

                are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
              • waljaco
                The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv. wal
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
                  The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                  wal

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                  >
                  > ------------------------------
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                  > > wal
                  > >
                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                  > > >
                  > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                  > > >
                  > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                  > > >
                  > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Wal
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • waljaco
                  Don t know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant. wal
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 3, 2010
                    Don't know. But rum can contain caramel which is quite dominant.
                    wal

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                    > > wal
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
                    >
                    > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
                    >
                  • jamesonbeam1
                    Good, Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to specify which
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
                      Good,

                      Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
                      country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
                      specify which 151 your talking about.

                      JB.


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" waljaco@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and
                      alcohol soluble components in oak.
                      > > wal
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > what about rums? there are plenty of high ABV rums mainly the 151's
                      >
                      > are these oaked at lower abvs or at bottle strength?
                      >
                    • *
                      ... for the sake of discussion ill say Black Seal Bermuda i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Good,
                        >
                        > Almost all rums are aged, mostly in used oak barrels. Depending on the
                        > country of origin, they are aged for a year or more. You need to
                        > specify which 151 your talking about.
                        >
                        > JB.
                        >
                        >

                        for the sake of discussion ill say
                        Black Seal
                        Bermuda

                        i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
                        is it better to age rum at higher abv?
                      • Harry
                        ... Define better . Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore... Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 4, 2010
                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > for the sake of discussion ill say
                          > Black Seal
                          > Bermuda
                          >
                          > i know most rums are aged on oak. question is if you have a 151 proof rum what proof is it aged? we know whisky is best aged at 130 proof
                          > is it better to age rum at higher abv?
                          >


                          Define "better". Different is the word I think. The balance is yours to explore...

                          "Most rum producers age their rum at 70% to 80% alcohol. A few dilute their spirits to nearly bottle-strength, 40 to 45% alcohol by volume, before putting the barrels away for aging. A lower alcohol content during aging tends to leech slightly lighter esters and phenols from the wooden barrels while a higher alcohol content will attract heavier compounds and associated flavors."

                          Source: http://www.ministryofrum.com/article_age_matters.php


                          Slainte!
                          regards Harry
                        • Pete H
                          This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel: http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                            This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                            http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                            seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                            Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                            ------------------------------

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                            > wal
                            >
                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                            > > > wal
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                            > > > >
                            > > > > ------------------------------
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Hi Wal
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • waljaco
                            I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual. wal
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                              I have been corrected. A penetration of 6mm is not unusual.
                              wal

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                              > wal
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                              > > > wal
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ------------------------------
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Hi Wal
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Paul Williams
                              I like the boomerang keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                                I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea


                                On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:

                                 



                                This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:

                                http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg

                                seems to indicate that wine (say 12% abv average) penetrates far deeper than spirits as quoted by wal. In fact 10 times deeper at 10mm.

                                Would not 95% or even 60% abv spirit be stronger than wine and thus penetrate deeper?

                                ------------------------------

                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The penetration in a barrel is about 1mm. Note that commercial whisky/whiskey distilleries store/age at 60%abv.
                                > wal
                                >
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Not being aware of the experiments, I took the approach that the purer the alcohol, the better it is able to penetrate the oak and leach its desirable properties.
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Experiments show that about 60%abv is best to extract water and alcohol soluble components in oak.
                                > > > wal
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Pete H" <thursty2@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > My hardly scientific approach - first time round, was to soak oak chips in 95%abv vodka. The qty's are approx. I half filled a 1.75 ltr bottle with oak chips cut to fit through the neck. A Jack D bottle was ideal for this with its wide neck.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > When bottling a dark rum, (vodka & essence) I add 25 ml of the oaked 95% to 2.25 ltrs of the rum. I also have a vanilla quill sitting in 95% vodka. I add 5ml of this liquid to the rum.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > So far, I'm liking the taste.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > In this thread it has been mentioned that 5gm per ltr should be used. Is that 5gm of chips?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ------------------------------
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "atticpc" <atticpc@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Hi Wal
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I will try that - much easier than going back to the start all over again.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Harry - just looked back on my notes. I was actually using nearly 10gms per litre - so way over oaked.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > One of my plans at this stage is to fire up a new batch of UJSM and do a few stripping runs. Then on one spirit run add in some of the over oaked batch and then oak again.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > The second approach is going to be to do the spirit run and cuts. Then do up a batch of 50% over oaked and 50% new and oak again on a very small quantity of oak. Will probably use pre used oak.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > All a part of the fun of the craft.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >


                              • Pete H
                                Thanks Paul, I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine. I do have to
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                                  Thanks Paul,

                                  I wanted a simple to operate closure, and because the column is open to the air - ie., no pressure build up - this method works fine.

                                  I do have to investigate a better gasket material. The foam I have eventually collapses with the weight and heat, and then I have to cut a replacement.

                                  A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.

                                  -------------------------

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Paul Williams <paul.stewart.williams@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I like the "boomerang" keg closure in your other pics - neat idea
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 2010-12-05, at 7:56 AM, Pete H wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > This pic of an oak stave from a wine barrel:
                                  > >
                                  > > http://tinyurl.com/38abjgg
                                • *
                                  ... how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                                    > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.


                                    how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                                  • Pete H
                                    Hadn t thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out. Thanks *
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 5, 2010
                                      Hadn't thought of the cake pan. I need material about 3mm thick. Will check it out.

                                      Thanks *

                                      -------------------------

                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "*" <goodneighbor69@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > A form of silicon sheet is probably my best bet, but finding it is proving difficult.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > how about a silicone cooking sheet or silicone cake pan
                                      >
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