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Re: Defoaming agents for molasses wash

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  • waljaco
    Anti-colic/reflux medication contains the same chemical defoaming agent. wal
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 7, 2010
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      Anti-colic/reflux medication contains the same chemical defoaming agent.
      wal

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "danev2" <danev2@...> wrote:
      >
      > I getting ready to do a molasses rum run. 15 gal total.
      > I've lost my defoaming ingredient I used to use. (bottle got old and leaked)
      > My local brew supply store doesn't have anything although I have a couple others a few miles out of town.
      > Anything household related I could substitute? I heard plain vegetable oil works OK.
      > suggestions?
      >
      > thansk!
      > Dane v
      >
    • tgfoitwoods
      Dane, I usually do a 12-gallon (for a 3.5-gallon headspace) rum wash, and I use a lump of butter about walnut size. It works well, but I m still very careful
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 7, 2010
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        Dane,

        I usually do a 12-gallon (for a 3.5-gallon headspace) rum wash, and I
        use a lump of butter about walnut size. It works well, but I'm still
        very careful bringing up the heat to a boil. As you must know, rum
        washes are famously pukey.

        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "danev2" <danev2@...> wrote:
        >
        > I getting ready to do a molasses rum run. 15 gal total.
        > I've lost my defoaming ingredient I used to use. (bottle got old and
        leaked)
        > My local brew supply store doesn't have anything although I have a
        couple others a few miles out of town.
        > Anything household related I could substitute? I heard plain vegetable
        oil works OK.
        > suggestions?
        >
        > thansk!
        > Dane v
        >
      • castillo.alex2008
        Hi ZB. Does this adds flavor to the rum (butterscotch perhaps)? I have never had foaming problems, but I´m just curious. Does it worth a try? Alex
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 7, 2010
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          Hi ZB.

          Does this adds flavor to the rum (butterscotch perhaps)?

          I have never had foaming problems, but I´m just curious. Does it worth a try?

          Alex

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dane,
          >
          > I usually do a 12-gallon (for a 3.5-gallon headspace) rum wash, and I
          > use a lump of butter about walnut size. It works well, but I'm still
          > very careful bringing up the heat to a boil. As you must know, rum
          > washes are famously pukey.
          >
          > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
          >
          >
        • tgfoitwoods
          Alex, The butter probably does contribute a bit to the flavor, but my palate can t tell you which bit. Now you ve got me worried. If you, of all people,
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 7, 2010
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            Alex,

            The butter probably does contribute a bit to the flavor, but my palate
            can't tell you which bit.

            Now you've got me worried. If you, of all people, haven't encountered
            rum foaming problems, I must be missing something important, and I say
            that in all seriousness (seriosity?). Do you have any ideas why many of
            us have foaming problems with rums? Is there any chance it's due to the
            different molasses types that are available to us? Do you do more
            elaborate settling/clearing than we do?

            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
            <castillo.alex2008@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi ZB.
            >
            > Does this adds flavor to the rum (butterscotch perhaps)?
            >
            > I have never had foaming problems, but I´m just curious. Does it
            worth a try?
            >
            > Alex
            >
            ----snip----
          • danev2
            I agree, I ve always had mol. washes bubble and get the whole inside of the pot coated. I got a defoaming additive from a beer brewer friend several years ago.
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 7, 2010
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              I agree, I've always had mol. washes bubble and get the whole inside of the pot coated.
              I got a defoaming additive from a beer brewer friend several years ago. and a couple tablespoons in my big 8 gal pot get things under control.
              The rig I am using now is a nominal 5 gal unit. all copper.
              1 foot square cube, with a 4 sided pyramid on top of 1 foot tall with a 3 inch copper column of 8 in tall.
              then a simple coppper coil.

              I also always noticed how clean the copper was on the inside after a molasses run. once I rinsed it all out.
              Must be the acids in the wash?
              I believed that molasses was more alkaline. But I always put a generous amount of acid blend into the wash.

              On a different note.:
              maybe I should post this separate?
              I have a book published 30 years ago.
              Alcohol distillers Manual for Gasohol and spirits

              Written and published by
              Dona Carolina Distillers.
              San Antonio Texas.
              1980

              I've NEVER seen another copy of this book. and Google doesn't bring up any info.
              Anyone heard of this book?
              It's a very detailed book on methods of fermentation and distill of all sort of different materials for alcohol

              thanks all!
              D

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tgfoitwoods" <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
              >
              > Alex,
              >
              > The butter probably does contribute a bit to the flavor, but my palate
              > can't tell you which bit.
              >
              > Now you've got me worried. If you, of all people, haven't encountered
              > rum foaming problems, I must be missing something important, and I say
              > that in all seriousness (seriosity?). Do you have any ideas why many of
              > us have foaming problems with rums? Is there any chance it's due to the
              > different molasses types that are available to us? Do you do more
              > elaborate settling/clearing than we do?
              >
              > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
              >
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "castillo.alex2008"
              > <castillo.alex2008@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi ZB.
              > >
              > > Does this adds flavor to the rum (butterscotch perhaps)?
              > >
              > > I have never had foaming problems, but I´m just curious. Does it
              > worth a try?
              > >
              > > Alex
              > >
              > ----snip----
              >
            • geoff burrows
              Hi Bob, Don t know if this might help but way back in the late 60 s when I went over to the south of England Aldershot to do my basic army training I noticed
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 7, 2010
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                Hi Bob,

                     Don't know if this might help but way back in the late 60’s when I went over to the south of England Aldershot to do my basic army training I noticed that when I boiled water to make a cuppa tea the water foamed and went very grey and misty looking when it was boiled (and one hell 've a lot of scale on the electric element and lying loose on the bottom of the kettle. 

                After it went off the boil of (100C) it went perfctly clear but left a fine bubbly scum on the surface of the cuppa tea.  In retrospect thinking about it Northern Ireland is a semi hard water region and the south of England is a soft water region because of the chalky downs where their water comes from. 

                Maybe this might have a bearing on your problem of foaming, maybe not.  Just throwing another variable into a possible solution

                Geoff     

              • Robert Hubble
                Hey Geoff, What you re saying points out that I don t really know a helluva lot about my water, which I guess makes me a lazy/sloppy brewer. I brew one Maibock
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                  Hey Geoff,

                  What you're saying points out that I don't really know a helluva lot about my water, which I guess makes me a lazy/sloppy brewer. I brew one Maibock a year (in the winter) without water addititives, but mostly I brew darker Scotch ales and stouts, where I add some gypsum to the water. That seems to work out, so I think my water's not too extreme in any direction, but i don't know for sure.

                  We're on about a 60-foot well, the water tastes great, and I've never seen excessive scale in or on any kettles or cookware.

                  The rum wash foaming doesn't really cause me any trouble, at least not that I can't work around, but when our resident rum guy says he doesn't experience foaming, I have to look really hard at what I'm doing. Thanks for the datum, though.

                  Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  From: jeffrey.burrows@...
                  Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:47:28 +0200
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: Defoaming agents for molasses wash

                   

                  Hi Bob,

                       Don't know if this might help but way back in the late 60’s when I went over to the south of England Aldershot to do my basic army training I noticed that when I boiled water to make a cuppa tea the water foamed and went very grey and misty looking when it was boiled (and one hell 've a lot of scale on the electric element and lying loose on the bottom of the kettle. 

                  After it went off the boil of (100C) it went perfctly clear but left a fine bubbly scum on the surface of the cuppa tea.  In retrospect thinking about it Northern Ireland is a semi hard water region and the south of England is a soft water region because of the chalky downs where their water comes from. 

                  Maybe this might have a bearing on your problem of foaming, maybe not.  Just throwing another variable into a possible solution

                  Geoff     


                • castillo.alex2008
                  Welp ZB, the truth is that I don´t know what to tell you. Just in case I´ll let you know the way I do it for my rums: Fermentation I use tap water (not even
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                    Welp ZB, the truth is that I don´t know what to tell you. Just in case I´ll let you know the way I do it for my rums:

                    Fermentation

                    I use tap water (not even the best quality since it is taken from a water deposit; around here the water people drink comes in 5 gallons PET carboys and tap water is used for everything else). I mix 4 parts in volume of water per 1 part of molasses (i.e. one gallon molasses and 4 of water) mix well, add a generous amount of yeast (now using EDV 493), mix well again in order to aereate and cover. I wait a week and distill. Formerly I use to add nutrients to that fermentation and aereate using an aquarium pump, but I no longer do it and still get good results.

                    Distillation

                    My rig is from brewhaus the bigger one, but I only use it as potstill. After lots of single distillations I return to the double distillation. I use the 1500W hotplate as my source of energy. Regularly I get around 2 liters at around 60% ABV after stripping. Once I collect at least a gallon of it my cuts in the spirit run go as follows: the first 100 mls as foreshots, the second 100 mls as head, everything else from there to 85 celcius degrees goes as middle cut to be aged and the rest until 98 celcius is considered tails. no longer use jars to mix and match portions. Againg always good results.

                    So far never, ever had a foaming problem.

                    Note: When I use dunder instead of water for the spirits rum, the booze get a nice deep cane bouquet so strong that people wonder how is it possible.

                    Aging

                    Much have been said about it, here goes the way I do it:

                    I adjust the ABV to 65 and for every 3 liters I add 20 grams of oak chips (heavy toast) there it wait now at least one year then dilute to 40% ABV wait one more week and its ready to go.


                    HTH

                    Alex
                  • bob@4agoodauction.com
                    I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya peels or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit? Bob Crowder 4 A
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                      I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya peels or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit?

                       

                      Bob Crowder

                      4 A Good Auction

                      3921 Mansfield Highway

                      Fort Worth, Texas 76119

                      817-536-3921

                       

                    • Peggy Korth
                      Where can a person find more information on protein digesting enzymes? Thanks to anyone for an answer. Peggy I have wondered if breaking down the protein in
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                        Where can a person find more information on protein digesting enzymes?

                        Thanks to anyone for an answer.

                        Peggy

                        I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya peels or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit?

                         

                        Bob Crowder

                        4 A Good Auction

                        3921 Mansfield Highway

                        Fort Worth , Texas 76119

                        817-536-3921

                         


                      • welska
                        http://no-foam.com/ A protease might help...could try a product from Scott Labs call ks if memory serves...kitchen sink ase....the foam URL above has some
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                          http://no-foam.com/

                          A protease might help...could try a product from Scott Labs call "ks" if memory serves...kitchen sink ase....the foam URL above has some kosher prods too

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy Korth" <rpk@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Where can a person find more information on protein digesting enzymes?
                          >
                          > Thanks to anyone for an answer.
                          >
                          > Peggy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya peels
                          > or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Bob Crowder
                          >
                          > 4 A Good Auction
                          >
                          > 3921 Mansfield Highway
                          >
                          > Fort Worth, Texas 76119
                          >
                          > 817-536-3921
                          >
                        • Peggy Korth
                          Thank you, Welska. Your lead put me in contact with Scott labs who sent me to The Beverage People and on to Vinquiry and then to an expert in the field who
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                            Thank you, Welska. Your lead put me in contact with Scott labs who sent me
                            to The Beverage People and on to Vinquiry and then to an expert in the field
                            who will get back with me--all good people with helpful information. Now
                            when I actually find out how much good the photolytic activity is as a
                            side-effect of the primary enzyme, I'll let you know. I now understand (I
                            think) that the pectin enzyme is involved with most of these and there are
                            nuances of action from many of the products. Most places no longer carry
                            Protease and don't know where to find it.

                            Now, the kitchen sink enzymes could be good. Just need to find out how
                            good.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of welska
                            Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 2:15 PM
                            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Distillers] Re: Defoaming agents for molasses wash

                            http://no-foam.com/

                            A protease might help...could try a product from Scott Labs call "ks" if
                            memory serves...kitchen sink ase....the foam URL above has some kosher prods
                            too

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy Korth" <rpk@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Where can a person find more information on protein digesting enzymes?
                            >
                            > Thanks to anyone for an answer.
                            >
                            > Peggy
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya peels
                            > or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit?
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Bob Crowder
                            >
                            > 4 A Good Auction
                            >
                            > 3921 Mansfield Highway
                            >
                            > Fort Worth, Texas 76119
                            >
                            > 817-536-3921
                            >




                            ------------------------------------

                            Distillers list archives :
                            http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/

                            FAQ, Howto distil etc. :
                            http://homedistiller.orgYahoo! Groups Links
                          • jamesonbeam1
                            Ummm Bob, Just incase your unaware, distilling is a a bit on the illegal side here in the US. While people know we do not sell it and make only small batches
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                              Ummm Bob,

                              Just incase your unaware, distilling is a a bit on the illegal side
                              here in the US. While people know we do not sell it and make only small
                              batches for personal use, tis still not a good idea to post personal
                              info and phone numbers... While the BATF is always looking for the big
                              fish that distill and sell on a large scale (not to mention the drug
                              business), you never know who your friends (or enemies) are. Matter O
                              fact, even amoung the bootleggers, alot of the busts occur due to
                              competitors ratting on each other.

                              Just a word of warning my friend - why most of us use Pen names. Please
                              dont get paranoid.

                              JB aka Waldo.

                              Moderator.


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <bob@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya
                              peels
                              > or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Bob Crowder
                              >
                              > 4 A Good Auction
                              >
                              > 3921 Mansfield Highway
                              >
                              > Fort Worth, Texas 76119
                              >
                              > 817-536-3921
                              >
                            • jamesonbeam1
                              Sidenote: Ment to say home or Micro distilling without a licence. If have a licenced distillery then no problem. JB.
                              Message 14 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                                Sidenote:

                                Ment to say home or Micro distilling without a licence. If have a
                                licenced distillery then no problem.

                                JB.
                              • Pete H
                                I think Bob has advertised his details on the wrong forum. He should be posting on the Biofuels forums. My 2 cents worth!
                                Message 15 of 22 , Oct 8, 2010
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                                  I think Bob has advertised his details on the wrong forum.
                                  He should be posting on the Biofuels forums.

                                  My 2 cents worth!

                                  ----------------------


                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Ummm Bob,
                                  >
                                  > Just incase your unaware, distilling is a a bit on the illegal side
                                  > here in the US. While people know we do not sell it and make only small
                                  > batches for personal use, tis still not a good idea to post personal
                                  > info and phone numbers... While the BATF is always looking for the big
                                  > fish that distill and sell on a large scale (not to mention the drug
                                  > business), you never know who your friends (or enemies) are. Matter O
                                  > fact, even amoung the bootleggers, alot of the busts occur due to
                                  > competitors ratting on each other.
                                  >
                                  > Just a word of warning my friend - why most of us use Pen names. Please
                                  > dont get paranoid.
                                  >
                                  > JB aka Waldo.
                                  >
                                  > Moderator.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <bob@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya
                                  > peels
                                  > > or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Bob Crowder
                                  > >
                                  > > 4 A Good Auction
                                  > >
                                  > > 3921 Mansfield Highway
                                  > >
                                  > > Fort Worth, Texas 76119
                                  > >
                                  > > 817-536-3921
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • bob@4agoodauction.com
                                  I distill only in my mind. BobC
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Oct 9, 2010
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                                    I distill only in my mind. BobC

                                     

                                     

                                  • waljaco
                                    It s the unfermented sugars that cause the foaming in molasses and malt washes. Enzymes to convert them to fermentable sugars (glucoamylase/amyloglucosidase is
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Oct 9, 2010
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                                      It's the unfermented sugars that cause the foaming in molasses and malt washes. Enzymes to convert them to fermentable sugars (glucoamylase/amyloglucosidase is used in breweries) will help'
                                      wal

                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, <bob@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I have wondered if breaking down the protein in the wash with papaya peels
                                      > or some other protein digesting enzyme would kill the foam a bit?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Bob Crowder
                                      >
                                      > 4 A Good Auction
                                      >
                                      > 3921 Mansfield Highway
                                      >
                                      > Fort Worth, Texas 76119
                                      >
                                      > 817-536-3921
                                      >
                                    • Harry
                                      ... Correct on converting non-fermentables, Wal. Plenty of headroom in the stillpot (only 1/2 to 2/3rds full max) and boiling chips to prevent bumping
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Oct 10, 2010
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                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > It's the unfermented sugars that cause the foaming in molasses and malt washes. Enzymes to convert them to fermentable sugars (glucoamylase/amyloglucosidase is used in breweries) will help'
                                        > wal


                                        Correct on converting non-fermentables, Wal. Plenty of headroom in the stillpot (only 1/2 to 2/3rds full max) and boiling chips to prevent 'bumping' (superheating) will also be a BIG help on preventing foaming.


                                        Slainte!
                                        regards Harry
                                      • Peggy Korth
                                        Thank you Wal and Harry It looks like we may get some protease from Italy to try. Also, we heard about a granular molasses. Not to see if it is unsulfurated.
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Oct 10, 2010
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                                          Thank you Wal and Harry

                                          It looks like we may get some protease from Italy to try. Also, we heard
                                          about a granular molasses. Not to see if it is unsulfurated.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of Harry
                                          Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 4:27 AM
                                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Defoaming agents for molasses wash



                                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > It's the unfermented sugars that cause the foaming in molasses and malt
                                          washes. Enzymes to convert them to fermentable sugars
                                          (glucoamylase/amyloglucosidase is used in breweries) will help'
                                          > wal


                                          Correct on converting non-fermentables, Wal. Plenty of headroom in the
                                          stillpot (only 1/2 to 2/3rds full max) and boiling chips to prevent
                                          'bumping' (superheating) will also be a BIG help on preventing foaming.


                                          Slainte!
                                          regards Harry



                                          ------------------------------------

                                          Distillers list archives :
                                          http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/

                                          FAQ, Howto distil etc. :
                                          http://homedistiller.orgYahoo! Groups Links
                                        • tgfoitwoods
                                          Thanks, Wal, That gives me an easy way to cut down my rum foaming (and to reduce the overhead in my still charge). Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller ... malt
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Oct 12, 2010
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                                            Thanks, Wal,

                                            That gives me an easy way to cut down my rum foaming (and to reduce the
                                            overhead in my still charge).

                                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > It's the unfermented sugars that cause the foaming in molasses and
                                            malt washes. Enzymes to convert them to fermentable sugars
                                            (glucoamylase/amyloglucosidase is used in breweries) will help'
                                            > wal
                                            >

                                            ---snip----
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