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Re: [Distillers] Oaking...

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  • klcampbell
    G day Matt,J.D.chips are available from J.P Kearney Wholesale,108 Musgrave street,Nth.R ton,4701.Phone/Fax:4921 0881,or your local brew shop may have an
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 4, 2002
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      G'day Matt,J.D.chips are available from J.P Kearney Wholesale,108 Musgrave street,Nth.R'ton,4701.Phone/Fax:4921 0881,or your local brew shop may have an account with them.
      I use toasted French oak staves to age neutral spirit for about 12 months and then use a small quantity,around 500Mls.per 2.25Lt.mix with a variety of essences and find them O.K.supplied by winery supplies in Knoxfield,nice people to deal with,
      Trial and error mate,Regards,Ken.  
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, 4 April 2002 12:39
      Subject: [Distillers] Oaking...

      Hi everyone,

      I have an idea for a project, which involves aging some spirit on oak
      for a long time (3-5 years) to make a quality spirit.  I would love
      to use barrels, but being financially challenged, this is not an
      option (well, not until I'm rich an famous!)

      I have used oak shavings in the past, for a quick oaking (2 - 6
      weeks), and I think I have probably been over-dosing my spirit. 
      Having read a little more, and thought about it a lot, I don't think
      oak shavings are the best thing as far as replicating what happens
      commercially.  Which brings me to the question(s).

      Oak chips and Mini oak staves are available (and thanks a billion to
      smudge311065 who posted the aussie link yesterday!).  I figure these
      would have to be much better than shavings, being more solid like a
      barrel situation.  Also, it means I can calculated the surface area,
      and dose my spirit at the same rate as a commercial barrel.

      So, which is better?  Am I right in my assumption that shavings are
      good for the 'quick fix', but chips and staves would be better for a
      longer aging?  How well can you toast the chips/staves?  How well do
      they work for other people?

      As a small aside, I have seen 'Jack Daniels chips' adverstised on a
      Kiwi site - anyone had any luck with these?  Are they any better
      than 'ordinary' oak chips?

      So many questions.....!

      Thanks,

      Matt




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    • Brian Shell - BDS (SC)
      I saw a similar thing a Lowes in the US...Jack Daniels barrels split in two for flower pots. They still smelled like bourbon!
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 4, 2002
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        I saw a similar thing a Lowes in the US...Jack Daniels barrels split in two
        for flower pots. They still smelled like bourbon!

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: glen [SMTP:warranty@...]
        > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:44 PM
        > To: distillers
        > Subject: Fw: [Distillers] Oaking...
        >
        > there is a place near me in adelaide that does full size wooden barrels
        > for
        > $90 au they used to hold french congnac for shipping and now are in the
        > graden centre to be chopped in half for pot plants!! you can buy whole or
        > halved!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi everyone,
        >
        > I have an idea for a project, which involves aging some spirit on oak
        > for a long time (3-5 years) to make a quality spirit. I would love
        > to use barrels, but being financially challenged, this is not an
        > option (well, not until I'm rich an famous!)
        >
        > I have used oak shavings in the past, for a quick oaking (2 - 6
        > weeks), and I think I have probably been over-dosing my spirit.
        > Having read a little more, and thought about it a lot, I don't think
        > oak shavings are the best thing as far as replicating what happens
        > commercially. Which brings me to the question(s).
        >
        > Oak chips and Mini oak staves are available (and thanks a billion to
        > smudge311065 who posted the aussie link yesterday!). I figure these
        > would have to be much better than shavings, being more solid like a
        > barrel situation. Also, it means I can calculated the surface area,
        > and dose my spirit at the same rate as a commercial barrel.
        >
        > So, which is better? Am I right in my assumption that shavings are
        > good for the 'quick fix', but chips and staves would be better for a
        > longer aging? How well can you toast the chips/staves? How well do
        > they work for other people?
        >
        > As a small aside, I have seen 'Jack Daniels chips' adverstised on a
        > Kiwi site - anyone had any luck with these? Are they any better
        > than 'ordinary' oak chips?
        >
        > So many questions.....!
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Matt
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
        Matt, ... Doesn t that mean that you ll also have to wait as long as the commercial guys do ? eg a minimum of 3 years, maybe 8+ ? ... Also note that as well as
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 4, 2002
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          Matt,

          > barrel situation. Also, it means I can calculated the surface area,
          > and dose my spirit at the same rate as a commercial barrel.

          Doesn't that mean that you'll also have to wait as long as the commercial
          guys do ? eg a minimum of 3 years, maybe 8+ ?


          > So, which is better? Am I right in my assumption that shavings are
          > good for the 'quick fix', but chips and staves would be better for a
          > longer aging? How well can you toast the chips/staves? How well do
          > they work for other people?

          Also note that as well as adding compounds to the spirit, and reacting with
          some of the cogeners present (both which will happen via chips/shavings),
          the oak by being slightly porous, also acts to help release some of
          compounds, and also let in a small amount of air etc, both which also affect
          the flavour changes taking place. I think this might be why adding just oak
          to a closed bottle doesn't always end up with the exact same result. No
          smart ideas though on how to address the situation.... though there was a
          mention a wee while back about using corks during storage, rather than
          air-tight caps ....


          Tony
        • moonshiyner
          ... a ... G day All I use the Jack Daniel chips quite a bit. I give them 3-4 weeks on clean 40% then drink as is with no further flavouring. They leave quite a
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 4, 2002
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            --- In Distillers@y..., "mattdistiller" <distiller@m...> wrote:
            > Hi everyone,

            > As a small aside, I have seen 'Jack Daniels chips' adverstised on
            a
            > Kiwi site - anyone had any luck with these? Are they any better
            > than 'ordinary' oak chips?

            G'day All

            I use the Jack Daniel chips quite a bit.
            I give them 3-4 weeks on clean 40% then drink as is with no further
            flavouring. They leave quite a nice JD taste (if possibly a bit thin)
            The spirit dosn't seem to colour up much with them but I suppose
            that would be easily rectified.

            Doug
          • noelwatson
            Love all the talk about the different oaking methods. Late last year I was given a dozen 8 inch whisky barrel staves about 12 feet long.(big Barrel) I was
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 4, 2002
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              Love all the talk about the different oaking methods.
              Late last year I was given a dozen 8 inch whisky barrel staves about 12 feet
              long.(big Barrel) I was going to try a couple of methods with the oak:
              First was to hit it with an electric plane (slightly de-tuned) and use the
              resulting shavings.
              Second was to put pieces of the staves through a band saw so the result
              would be a 1/8 to 1/4 inch slice about 8 inches across by 3 inches high.
              Any thoughts??
              regards,
              Noel
            • Jeanette Dunphy
              Went to the Glenfiditch distillary in 94. They put their regular whiskey in old sherry casks. That is supposed to give the colour and add a little bit of
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 5, 2002
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                Went to the Glenfiditch distillary in "94. They put
                their regular whiskey in old sherry casks. That is
                supposed to give the colour and add a little bit of
                flavour as well.

                On the tour, they opened the fermentation vats so we
                could all have a look and a smell.
                I leaned over and too a big lung full.
                The tour guide then yelled, WINDOW!
                I nearly ruined an entire batch.

                Jeanette

                http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
                - 1,000s of Bargains!
              • hexenwolfe
                ... oak ... think ... to ... these ... area, ... a ... do ... Matt, The purpose of barrel aging of whiskey is more complicated than just flavoring from the
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 10, 2004
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mattdistiller" <distiller@m...>
                  wrote:
                  > Hi everyone,
                  >
                  > I have an idea for a project, which involves aging some spirit on
                  oak
                  > for a long time (3-5 years) to make a quality spirit. I would love
                  > to use barrels, but being financially challenged, this is not an
                  > option (well, not until I'm rich an famous!)
                  >
                  > I have used oak shavings in the past, for a quick oaking (2 - 6
                  > weeks), and I think I have probably been over-dosing my spirit.
                  > Having read a little more, and thought about it a lot, I don't
                  think
                  > oak shavings are the best thing as far as replicating what happens
                  > commercially. Which brings me to the question(s).
                  >
                  > Oak chips and Mini oak staves are available (and thanks a billion
                  to
                  > smudge311065 who posted the aussie link yesterday!). I figure
                  these
                  > would have to be much better than shavings, being more solid like a
                  > barrel situation. Also, it means I can calculated the surface
                  area,
                  > and dose my spirit at the same rate as a commercial barrel.
                  >
                  > So, which is better? Am I right in my assumption that shavings are
                  > good for the 'quick fix', but chips and staves would be better for
                  a
                  > longer aging? How well can you toast the chips/staves? How well
                  do
                  > they work for other people?
                  >
                  > As a small aside, I have seen 'Jack Daniels chips' adverstised on a
                  > Kiwi site - anyone had any luck with these? Are they any better
                  > than 'ordinary' oak chips?
                  >
                  > So many questions.....!
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Matt


                  Matt,
                  The purpose of barrel aging of whiskey is more complicated than just
                  flavoring from the oak. Oak is porous and there is a continual
                  interaction between the enclosed whiskey and the oxygen in the air.
                  The process involves a slow oxidation of complex chemicals into
                  simpler ones, as well as the leaching of tannins and sugars from the
                  oak into the whiskey. Simply placing whiskey in contact with oak in
                  an environment that does not allow for slow oxidation and breathing of
                  the aging whiskey will miss out on this important part of the aging
                  process. I would hate to see you wait 3 years and then be disappointed.
                  Cheers,
                  Hex
                • SHINE~ ô¿ô
                  For quick oaking I toast my oak chips then boil 1 gal. of water. Pour the water over the chips and let it cool. I use this water to cut my 95% spirit s down to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 10, 2004
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                    For quick oaking I toast my oak chips then boil 1 gal. of
                    water. Pour the water over the chips and let it cool. I use
                    this water to cut my 95% spirit's down to 60%, this gives
                    it a nice color and allso helps the taste. To age it I trash
                    the bottle caps use cork stoppers and store it like you
                    would wine. I have a few bottles that are more than 15
                    years old and the taste of it and shine made the same
                    way last week is like night and day!

                    Just my thoughts, DJ Shine
                    Matt,
                    The purpose of barrel aging of whiskey is more complicated than just
                    flavoring from the oak. Oak is porous and there is a continual
                    interaction between the enclosed whiskey and the oxygen in the air.
                    The process involves a slow oxidation of complex chemicals into
                    simpler ones, as well as the leaching of tannins and sugars from the
                    oak into the whiskey. Simply placing whiskey in contact with oak in
                    an environment that does not allow for slow oxidation and breathing of
                    the aging whiskey will miss out on this important part of the aging
                    process. I would hate to see you wait 3 years and then be disappointed.
                    Cheers,
                    Hex



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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Austin Smith
                    I did a small (500ml) amount of brown sugar (rum) distillate on toasted JD BBQ chips. Seemed to work very well. I suggest buying a bag full and giving it a
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 11, 2004
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                      I did a small (500ml) amount of brown sugar (rum) distillate on toasted JD BBQ chips. Seemed to work very well. I suggest buying a bag full and giving it a try.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • David
                      I do the same but with regular suger and it worksgood. How long do you let it sit on the chips? ... toasted JD BBQ chips. Seemed to work very well. I suggest
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 11, 2004
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                        I do the same but with regular suger and it worksgood. How long do
                        you let it sit on the chips?

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Austin Smith" <asmith1@b...>
                        wrote:
                        > I did a small (500ml) amount of brown sugar (rum) distillate on
                        toasted JD BBQ chips. Seemed to work very well. I suggest buying a
                        bag full and giving it a try.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Austin Smith
                        The last bottle sat for months, with periodic agitation. Nice color and bouquet. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 11, 2004
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                          The last bottle sat for months, with periodic agitation. Nice color and bouquet.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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