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RE: [Distillers] Re: Distilling stuck wash

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  • ben marks
    wait till it quits bubbling! i asume you are using an air lock i let mine go till there is at least 2 minutes between each bubble then sometimes i even wait
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 22, 2010
      wait till it quits bubbling!  i asume you are using an air lock i let mine go till there is at least  2 minutes between each bubble then sometimes i even wait a day or two more ....ben 

       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Some people are like slinkies- not good for anything, But it sure is fun to push them down the stairs


       

      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      From: edbar44@...
      Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:01:10 +0000
      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Distilling stuck wash

       


      How long should I let it go, bubbling very slowly and if you are saying there is 11 oz per gallon left, I would have about 17# of sugar left to go, that's a lot. I did a step feed at 1.045, added about 10# and it went back to 1.080 and started slowing a few days ago, brix is 18.

      >
      > If its still bubbling then let it finish. 1.030 means you still have
      > about 11 oz. of sugar per gallon or another 4 to 4.5% ABV left
      > unfermented (less anyother solids).
      >
      > JB.
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "edbar44" <edbar44@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I've got a wash that appears to be stuck at 1.030 although it is still
      > bubbling a little, any problem stripping this out?
      > >
      >




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    • jamesonbeam1
      Hi Edbar, Well lets start back at the beginning so we can figure out whats going on. What recipe are you using, how much sugar have you added, how much water,
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 22, 2010
        Hi Edbar,

        Well lets start back at the beginning so we can figure out whats going
        on. What recipe are you using, how much sugar have you added, how much
        water, what nutrients, did you aerate the wash and what type of yeast
        are you using??

        This will help to figure out if its really stuck or not.

        Thanks,

        JB.


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "edbar44" <edbar44@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > How long should I let it go, bubbling very slowly and if you are
        saying there is 11 oz per gallon left, I would have about 17# of sugar
        left to go, that's a lot. I did a step feed at 1.045, added about 10#
        and it went back to 1.080 and started slowing a few days ago, brix is
        18.
        >
        >
        > >
        > > If its still bubbling then let it finish. 1.030 means you still have
        > > about 11 oz. of sugar per gallon or another 4 to 4.5% ABV left
        > > unfermented (less anyother solids).
        > >
        > > JB.
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "edbar44" <edbar44@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I've got a wash that appears to be stuck at 1.030 although it is
        still
        > > bubbling a little, any problem stripping this out?
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Ed Barcik
        To answer your question about what I started with, 26 gallons of water 75# sugar, OG 1.120, I know this seems high but I ve done the same wash for over a year
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 23, 2010

          To answer your question about what I started with, 26 gallons of water 75# sugar, OG 1.120, I know this seems high but I've done the same wash for over a year without a problem but this is the first I've done during the summer and its rather warm. Used all the required nutrients plus vitamin B, starting pH was 5.0. I used a ¼ cup of distillers yeast which is supposed to be tolerant to 22%.  It ran well for 8 days and when the SG dropped to 1.045, I added about 10# of sugar and some more nutrients and more vitamin B, pH was 4.8 the SG went to 1.080 and the brix was 26.

           

          As of this morning, it has stopped bubbling, SG is 1.030 and hasn't moved in several days. Two days ago, I added some water, maybe a gallon or so and more yeast but to no avail, it's just sitting.

           

        • jeweler53
          You might try a restart . This is what I have done with 100% success. Make a 1 qt (or liter) starter using a SG of 1.030 (or wherever you are stuck), in a 1
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 23, 2010
            You might try a "restart".

            This is what I have done with 100% success.

            Make a 1 qt (or liter) starter using a SG of 1.030 (or wherever you are stuck), in a 1 gal jar. Grape juice is great for this it has a good balance of nutrients.

            Pitch a tablespoon of yeast and fit an airlock. Fermentation should commence right away.

            When fermentation is going strong, add 1 quart of the "stuck" wash.

            Wait until fermentation is going strong again and add 2 quarts (doubling it again). Repeat this doubling for awhile (wait for very vigorous fermentation each time), until you get a very large volume of wash (6 gal.?) that is fermenting. Then pitch the whole thing back into your wash.

            I normally have used this procedure on 5 or 6 gallon batches and re-pitch when I have 1 gal of actively fermenting wash.

            This method allows the yeast to get used to the high ETOH level slowly. Some yeasts will not re-pitch very well when there is a lot of ETOH present.

            Good luck!

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Barcik" <edbar44@...> wrote:
            >
            > To answer your question about what I started with, 26 gallons of water 75#
            > sugar, OG 1.120, I know this seems high but I've done the same wash for over
            > a year without a problem but this is the first I've done during the summer
            > and its rather warm. Used all the required nutrients plus vitamin B,
            > starting pH was 5.0. I used a � cup of distillers yeast which is supposed to
            > be tolerant to 22%. It ran well for 8 days and when the SG dropped to
            > 1.045, I added about 10# of sugar and some more nutrients and more vitamin
            > B, pH was 4.8 the SG went to 1.080 and the brix was 26.
            >
            >
            >
            > As of this morning, it has stopped bubbling, SG is 1.030 and hasn't moved in
            > several days. Two days ago, I added some water, maybe a gallon or so and
            > more yeast but to no avail, it's just sitting.
            >
          • Ed Barcik
            I may try that but here s a question I ve been mulling over and it s really not important but could be a solution if anyone thinks this will work. What if I
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 24, 2010

              I may try that but here's a question I've been mulling over and it's really not important but could be a solution if anyone thinks this will work. What if I was to strip this stuck wash? The left over in the boiler from the stuck wash should be my sugar solution, right or wrong, is it possible to use that and start a new fermentation to capture the balance of the sugar that is just sitting there?

               

            • Harry
              ... Yes you can. Once you remove the bulk of the ethanol, what s left is hot liquid with some overboiled sugar (ala molasses) in it and dead axploded yeast
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 24, 2010
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Barcik" <edbar44@...> wrote:
                >
                > I may try that but here's a question I've been mulling over and it's really
                > not important but could be a solution if anyone thinks this will work. What
                > if I was to strip this stuck wash? The left over in the boiler from the
                > stuck wash should be my sugar solution, right or wrong, is it possible to
                > use that and start a new fermentation to capture the balance of the sugar
                > that is just sitting there?
                >



                Yes you can. Once you remove the bulk of the ethanol, what's left is hot liquid with some overboiled sugar (ala molasses) in it and dead axploded yeast cells (nutrients). Dissolve more sugar in the hot liquid, let it cool, then pitch more yeast. People been doing this for centuries and making nice rum agricole.

                The stripped alcohol will need to be refluxed to remove the pyrolytic off-flavors, and probably carbon polished also (burnt sugar ain't a nice taste). It's a vodka or blend-back candidate only.


                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • jamesonbeam1
                Hi Ed, Sorry, I sent 4 messages this weekend and all were rejected by Yahoo. Even complained to Harry about it. Yours happened to be one of them - Just got
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 26, 2010

                  Hi Ed,

                  Sorry, I sent 4 messages this weekend and all were rejected by Yahoo.  Even complained to Harry about it.  Yours happened to be one of them - Just got the reject notices today.  Here it is:

                  Hi Ed,

                  Unforunately it now sounds like you have butted heads with two of the
                  top problems for stuck washes - high heat and high gravity (too much
                  sugar).  Might want to read the Top 10 Reasons for Stuck fermentations
                  by E.C. Kraus -  http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-failure.html
                  <http://www.eckraus.com/wine-making-failure.html>

                  For every 10C degrees increase in temperature, yeast will double their
                  chemical reaction speed and activity during fermentation.  While the
                  yeast we use like to work best at room temperatures (between 70F and
                  75F), when the temp goes over 85F the fermentation will start generating
                  more heat then the ambient temperature and cause the poor devils to
                  basically work so hard they burn themselves out.  During  hot weather
                  like we have had this summer, you need to keep a keen eye on the
                  fermentation temp and use some type of wort chiller if needed.  This is
                  why "stacking" of Turbo yeasts is not recommended....

                  While I have heard of that distiller's yeast capable of 22% ABV, you
                  should ask the manufacturer what the upper limit is on temp.  That
                  combined with the amount of sugar your using is most likely what caused
                  your fermentation to stall.

                  In the future, during hot weather I would go no higher then your
                  original starting gravity of 1.120 and keep the potential ABV to around
                  18% (or no more then 3 lbs. of sugar per gallon) - see:
                  http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm
                  <http://www.brsquared.org/wine/CalcInfo/HydSugAl.htm>   Also when going
                  to as high a gravity as you went to, I would start off with no more then
                  2 lbs. of sugar per gallon when pitching the yeast, then gradually add
                  the additional sugars in 2 or 3  increments as the SG decreases by 1/3rd
                  each time.

                  Also, and Im sure quite a few here will agree, it takes less  time to
                  ferment a couple of 12% to 13% ABV washes, with less off-tastes, and
                  less stress on the yeast then trying for a 20%  to 22% ABV fermentation
                  all at once.

                  The only 2 choices you have now is to go with Jewler's suggestion for
                  restarting a stuck fermentation, bit by bit, which is standard practice
                  for restarts or try distilling it as is.

                  Make sure if you go this route to do it low and slow so as not to burn
                  the solids in your wash and follow what Harry says.

                  HTH.

                  JB.

                • Ed Barcik
                  The only 2 choices you have now is to go with Jewler s suggestion for restarting a stuck fermentation, bit by bit, which is standard practice for restarts or
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 27, 2010

                    The only 2 choices you have now is to go with Jewler's suggestion for
                    restarting a stuck fermentation, bit by bit, which is standard practice
                    for restarts or try distilling it as is.

                    Make sure if you go this route to do it low and slow so as not to burn
                    the solids in your wash and follow what Harry says.

                     

                     

                    What I decided to do was distill and then start what's left over as a new wash since there is considerable sugar left in there anyway, so yesterday, I distilled the first half (12g) and pulled off an impressive 6+ liters of about 60% and what was left over was a dark brown liquid smelling very much like molasses. I just fired up the second half this morning and after all if done, hope to be able to start a new wash with the leftovers and more sugar, thinking about SG of 1.080 or so and will use the same super start distiller's yeast. I had added some nutrients to the batch when I did a step feeding, you suppose I need more or there should be some residual even after the distill or am I wrong?

                     

                  • jamesonbeam1
                    Yes, there should be residual nutrients left and as Harry mentioned, the exploded yeast hulls will provide even more. You can also boil up any leftover trub
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 27, 2010
                      Yes, there should be residual nutrients left and as Harry mentioned, the
                      exploded yeast hulls will provide even more. You can also boil up any
                      leftover trub from the bottom of your fermenter which makes great
                      nutrients.

                      JB.


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Barcik" <edbar44@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The only 2 choices you have now is to go with Jewler's suggestion for
                      > restarting a stuck fermentation, bit by bit, which is standard
                      practice
                      > for restarts or try distilling it as is.
                      >
                      > Make sure if you go this route to do it low and slow so as not to burn
                      > the solids in your wash and follow what Harry says.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > What I decided to do was distill and then start what's left over as a
                      new
                      > wash since there is considerable sugar left in there anyway, so
                      yesterday, I
                      > distilled the first half (12g) and pulled off an impressive 6+ liters
                      of
                      > about 60% and what was left over was a dark brown liquid smelling very
                      much
                      > like molasses. I just fired up the second half this morning and after
                      all if
                      > done, hope to be able to start a new wash with the leftovers and more
                      sugar,
                      > thinking about SG of 1.080 or so and will use the same super start
                      > distiller's yeast. I had added some nutrients to the batch when I did
                      a step
                      > feeding, you suppose I need more or there should be some residual even
                      after
                      > the distill or am I wrong?
                      >
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