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Re: Baseboard Fins in a condenser - Safe?

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  • slipthruthecracks
    I was wondering about flavor, but more about anything harmful. Although I heat and boil DW s Wheatgerm recipe in an aluminum stock pot, I have never had
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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      I was wondering about flavor, but more about anything harmful. Although I heat and boil DW's Wheatgerm recipe in an aluminum stock pot, I have never had anything but very good tasting whiskey from that after double distilling in my potstill which is a converted SS keg boiler.

      However, I was concerned that in this case, it would be the alcohol vapors that would be in contact with what now I am assuming are aluminum fins. If they are aluminum, should I expect that the vapors may be corrosive or otherwise chemically interact with the fins to put nasties in the product?

      Jack

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, roger shattuck <happy.feat@...> wrote:
      >
      > Aluminum will put the taste off. I ruined some beer using an aluminum pot.
      >
    • Ken
      _____ From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of slipthruthecracks Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 8:25 a.m. To:
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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        From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Distillers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of slipthruthecracks
        Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 8:25 a.m.
        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Baseboard Fins in a condenser - Safe?

         

         

        I shrank them a bit and tried again Ken. I think they were successfully uploaded, Thanks.

        Jack

        They showed up this time and have approved

         

        Ken Mc

         

      • Ken
        I have looked at the photo s and it would appear that they are providing air cooling to a copper product line and if that is the case I can not see that your
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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          I have looked at the photo’s and it would appear that they are providing air cooling to a copper product line and if that is the case I can not see that your product is in contact with the aluminium fins? As to prepping a wash in aluminium pot I see no problem as long as it is fermented in a plastic or glass fermenter.

           

          Ken Mc

           


          From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Distillers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of slipthruthecracks
          Sent: Saturday, 10 April 2010 8:31 a.m.
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Distillers] Re: Baseboard Fins in a condenser - Safe?

           

           

          I was wondering about flavor, but more about anything harmful. Although I heat and boil DW's Wheatgerm recipe in an aluminum stock pot, I have never had anything but very good tasting whiskey from that after double distilling in my potstill which is a converted SS keg boiler.

          However, I was concerned that in this case, it would be the alcohol vapors that would be in contact with what now I am assuming are aluminum fins. If they are aluminum, should I expect that the vapors may be corrosive or otherwise chemically interact with the fins to put nasties in the product?

          Jack

          --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, roger shattuck <happy.feat@ ...> wrote:

          >
          > Aluminum will put the taste off. I ruined some beer using an aluminum pot.
          >

        • Derek Hamlet
          ... Back in the day, fifty some odd years ago, we were po and so made our own beer and wine. We used plastic garbage cans and plastic secondary fermenters.
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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            At 13:54 09/04/2010, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >I have looked at the photo's and it would appear that they are
            >providing air cooling to a copper product line and if that is the
            >case I can not see that your product is in contact with the
            >aluminium fins? As to prepping a wash in aluminium pot I see no
            >problem as long as it is fermented in a plastic or glass fermenter.

            Back in the day, fifty some odd years ago, we were po' and so made
            our own beer and wine. We used plastic garbage cans and plastic
            secondary fermenters. The secondarys were food grade, whatever that
            meant. But, you know over time they went from transluscent to
            cloudy. Hmm. But, they were food grade so it must have been okay.
            Over time we switched to glass secondaries, oak barrels and all the
            other good stuff.
            Then along came Nalgene bottles. Good stuff they told us. No broken
            glass and didn't make your water taste like camel had peed in it like
            our old aluminum hiking canteens. Now all of a sudden we are told
            that Nalgene bottles do actually leach part of their body parts into
            the water. Ooops. Now, of course, it's all about stainless.
            So, I guess I have a somewhat jaundiced view of what some of the
            "experts" tell us.
            Personally I do not like the effect that some chemicals have on
            aluminum. Studies show there is no relationship to aluminum ions and
            my shrinking brain. I hope so.
            For distilling I like copper because of its effect on removing
            sulphur compounds. I use glass for storage. I'd love a copper
            boiler, but alas I'm a mixture of not as rich as I'd like to be and
            very frugal. So I use a stainless beer keg.
            Of course we will all learn that while we weren't looking every
            stainless producer in N. America offshored the production of
            stainless and that somewhere down the road those damn foreign devils
            started using legs of frongs and eyes of newt in the production.
            Oh well, I'm guessing my liver is going to give out before my brain.



            Derek
          • Rufus
            Hey cracks, ferrous magnets don t work on stainless either- so it s not a good test for deciding between Al or SSteel Regards, R iPhone
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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              Hey cracks, ferrous magnets don't work on stainless either- so it's not a good test for deciding between Al or SSteel

              Regards,
              R


              iPhone
            • Bryan Bornais
              No one said that magnets work on stainless. However, in actuality, many lower grades of stainless are ferromagnetic to differing degrees.
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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                No one said that magnets work on stainless.

                However, in actuality, many lower grades of "stainless" are ferromagnetic to differing degrees.



                From: Rufus <rufusroughguts@...>
                To: "Distillers@yahoogroups.com" <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Fri, April 9, 2010 9:15:05 PM
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: Baseboard Fins in a condenser - Safe?

                 

                Hey cracks, ferrous magnets don't work on stainless either- so it's not a good test for deciding between Al or SSteel

                Regards,
                R

                iPhone



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              • Harry
                ... Work hardening can also increase the magnetism of stainless steel. While its magnetism tends to be relatively slight, grades with higher work hardening
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Bornais <bbornais@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > No one said that magnets work on stainless.
                  >
                  > However, in actuality, many lower grades of "stainless" are ferromagnetic to differing degrees.
                  >


                  Work hardening can also increase the magnetism of stainless steel. While its magnetism tends to be relatively slight, grades with higher work hardening rates exhibit higher levels of magnetic capacity after treatment.


                  Slainte!
                  regards Harry
                • rye_junkie1
                  ... 304SS wire will draw to a magnet after being wound to a spring(work hardening at work). Some worse than others. First hand experience with that one. 316SS
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 9, 2010
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:

                    > Work hardening can also increase the magnetism of stainless steel. While its magnetism tends to be relatively slight, grades with higher work hardening rates exhibit higher levels of magnetic capacity after treatment.
                    >
                    >
                    > Slainte!
                    > regards Harry
                    >


                    304SS wire will draw to a magnet after being wound to a spring(work hardening at work). Some worse than others. First hand experience with that one. 316SS doesnt seem to be susceptible.

                    Mason
                  • slipthruthecracks
                    Ken, but I am thinking about using this in a reverse fashion to what you are thinking. Rather than run the product through the copper tube, I intend to run
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 10, 2010
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                      Ken, but I am thinking about using this in a reverse fashion to what you are thinking. Rather than run the product through the copper tube, I intend to run coolant through the copper tube. The entire finned assembly would be trimmed to fit into a larger copper tube which would be the head of my column. Think of Harry's X-flow condenser with the finned assembly inside rather than the dozen or so small tubes. So the vapor would be in contact with the fins which are absorbing the heat of the vapor and transferring it to the coolant passing through the inner copper tube.

                      I have the section of finned baseboard laying here after a home renovation and hate to see it go to waste. Instead of using it for an air cooled product condenser, my twisted brain started thinking about putting it at the top of a combo LM/VM column in a similar fashion to the x-flow head that has received so many kudos in the last year or so. I am just a little concerned about the material. If it is stainless, I am not too concerned. If it is aluminum, then I am asking the group for its collective wisdom about using the section of baseboard in this fashion.

                      OneEyedJack

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <km_services@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I have looked at the photo's and it would appear that they are providing air
                      > cooling to a copper product line and if that is the case I can not see that
                      > your product is in contact with the aluminium fins? As to prepping a wash in
                      > aluminium pot I see no problem as long as it is fermented in a plastic or
                      > glass fermenter.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Ken Mc
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Ken
                      I would advise against that with Aluminium if copper or stainless steel fins would be ok Ken Mc _____ From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 10, 2010
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                        I would advise against that with Aluminium if copper or stainless steel fins would be ok

                         

                        Ken Mc

                         


                        From: Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto: Distillers@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of slipthruthecracks
                        Sent: Sunday, 11 April 2010 3:02 a.m.
                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Baseboard Fins in a condenser - Safe?

                         

                         

                        Ken, but I am thinking about using this in a reverse fashion to what you are thinking. Rather than run the product through the copper tube, I intend to run coolant through the copper tube. The entire finned assembly would be trimmed to fit into a larger copper tube which would be the head of my column. Think of Harry's X-flow condenser with the finned assembly inside rather than the dozen or so small tubes. So the vapor would be in contact with the fins which are absorbing the heat of the vapor and transferring it to the coolant passing through the inner copper tube.

                        I have the section of finned baseboard laying here after a home renovation and hate to see it go to waste. Instead of using it for an air cooled product condenser, my twisted brain started thinking about putting it at the top of a combo LM/VM column in a similar fashion to the x-flow head that has received so many kudos in the last year or so. I am just a little concerned about the material. If it is stainless, I am not too concerned. If it is aluminum, then I am asking the group for its collective wisdom about using the section of baseboard in this fashion.

                        OneEyedJack

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "Ken" <km_services@ ...> wrote:

                        >
                        > I have looked at the photo's and it would appear that they are providing
                        air
                        > cooling to a copper product line and if that is the case I can not see
                        that
                        > your product is in contact with the aluminium fins? As to prepping a wash
                        in
                        > aluminium pot I see no problem as long as it is fermented in a plastic or
                        > glass fermenter.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Ken Mc
                        >
                        >
                        >

                      • Steve Spence
                        Especially something that may use leaded solder. Steve Spence Renewable energy and self sufficiency http://www.green-trust.org
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 10, 2010
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                          Especially something that may use leaded solder.

                          Steve Spence
                          Renewable energy and self sufficiency
                          http://www.green-trust.org
                          http://makingthewebwork.blogspot.com/




                          Ken wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I would advise against that with Aluminium if copper or stainless steel
                          > fins would be ok
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > *_Ken Mc_*
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
                          > *From:* Distillers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Distillers@yahoogroups.com]
                          > *On Behalf Of *slipthruthecracks
                          > *Sent:* Sunday, 11 April 2010 3:02 a.m.
                          > *To:* Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > *Subject:* [Distillers] Re: Baseboard Fins in a condenser - Safe?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Ken, but I am thinking about using this in a reverse fashion to what you
                          > are thinking. Rather than run the product through the copper tube, I
                          > intend to run coolant through the copper tube. The entire finned
                          > assembly would be trimmed to fit into a larger copper tube which would
                          > be the head of my column. Think of Harry's X-flow condenser with the
                          > finned assembly inside rather than the dozen or so small tubes. So the
                          > vapor would be in contact with the fins which are absorbing the heat of
                          > the vapor and transferring it to the coolant passing through the inner
                          > copper tube.
                          >
                          > I have the section of finned baseboard laying here after a home
                          > renovation and hate to see it go to waste. Instead of using it for an
                          > air cooled product condenser, my twisted brain started thinking about
                          > putting it at the top of a combo LM/VM column in a similar fashion to
                          > the x-flow head that has received so many kudos in the last year or so.
                          > I am just a little concerned about the material. If it is stainless, I
                          > am not too concerned. If it is aluminum, then I am asking the group for
                          > its collective wisdom about using the section of baseboard in this fashion.
                          >
                          > OneEyedJack
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Distillers%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "Ken" <km_services@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> I have looked at the photo's and it would appear that they are
                          > providing air
                          >> cooling to a copper product line and if that is the case I can not see that
                          >> your product is in contact with the aluminium fins? As to prepping a
                          > wash in
                          >> aluminium pot I see no problem as long as it is fermented in a plastic or
                          >> glass fermenter.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Ken Mc
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                        • Harry
                          ... If it is aluminum, then I am asking the group for its collective wisdom about using the section of baseboard in this fashion. ... DON T! It is
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 10, 2010
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                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "slipthruthecracks" <slipthruthecracks@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Ken, but I am thinking about using this in a reverse fashion to what you are thinking. Rather than run the product through the copper tube, I intend to run coolant through the copper tube.

                            <snip>

                            If it is aluminum, then I am asking the group for its collective wisdom about using the section of baseboard in this fashion.
                            >
                            > OneEyedJack



                            DON'T! It is aluminum finned. Aluminum and boiling point ethanol vapors DO NOT PLAY NICE. It will corrode to powder in short order. Apart from health issues from ingesting the results, the thing won't work as a heat exchanger any more, so you'll have to build another replacement. Read my paper on metals here...
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/35812


                            Slainte!
                            regards Harry
                          • abbababbaccc
                            Harry, I wouldn t say it corrodes in short order. I ve used aluminum convector pipes as reflux condensers for some 30++ runs and they show no signs of
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 11, 2010
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                              Harry,

                              I wouldn't say it corrodes in short order. I've used aluminum convector pipes as reflux condensers for some 30++ runs and they show no signs of corrosion. The shine goes away but no corrosion. In principle it should be safe even as the product condenser, but with all the bad rap aluminum gets I feel more comfortable with copper personally.

                              Slainte, Riku


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > If it is aluminum, then I am asking the group for its collective wisdom about using the section of baseboard in this fashion.
                              > >
                              > > OneEyedJack
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > DON'T! It is aluminum finned. Aluminum and boiling point ethanol vapors DO NOT PLAY NICE. It will corrode to powder in short order. Apart from health issues from ingesting the results, the thing won't work as a heat exchanger any more, so you'll have to build another replacement. Read my paper on metals here...
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/35812
                              >
                              >
                              > Slainte!
                              > regards Harry
                              >
                            • Harry
                              ... Which side did you have the vapor? Inside the pipe, or outside contacting the fins? Slainte! regards Harry
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 11, 2010
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                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Harry,
                                >
                                > I wouldn't say it corrodes in short order. I've used aluminum convector pipes as reflux condensers for some 30++ runs and they show no signs of corrosion. The shine goes away but no corrosion. In principle it should be safe even as the product condenser, but with all the bad rap aluminum gets I feel more comfortable with copper personally.
                                >
                                > Slainte, Riku


                                Which side did you have the vapor? Inside the pipe, or outside contacting the fins?


                                Slainte!
                                regards Harry
                              • slipthruthecracks
                                Thanks, Harry. That s the kind of definitive answer I was looking for. I think even more to the point was Ken s caution about leaded solder. I really don t
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 12, 2010
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                                  Thanks, Harry. That's the kind of definitive answer I was looking for. I think even more to the point was Ken's caution about leaded solder. I really don't know what kind of solder was used in this assembly and I hadn't considered it until Ken mentioned it.

                                  So, this will become a cooling radiator for my hot return coolant. After running through the condenser, I will run the water through the finned radiator tube with a fan blowing on it to cool down the water as it returns to the reservoir. I use a 20 gal bucket to pump my cooling water from and replace the water in the bucket as it heats up. I usually use only 20 gals for a 5 gal stripping run and 40 for a longer spirit run. So the tubing won't go to waste but I won't be so clever with it as I thought.

                                  I appreciate all the feedback and all I have learned while reading here for a few years.

                                  Jack


                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > DON'T! It is aluminum finned. Aluminum and boiling point ethanol vapors DO NOT PLAY NICE. It will corrode to powder in short order. Apart from health issues from ingesting the results, the thing won't work as a heat exchanger any more, so you'll have to build another replacement. Read my paper on metals here...
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/35812
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Slainte!
                                  > regards Harry
                                  >
                                • abbababbaccc
                                  Inside the pipe, the fins are really quite thin so that could be a problem in prolonged use if the vapor was outside. Slainte, Riku
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 12, 2010
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                                    Inside the pipe, the fins are really quite thin so that could be a problem in prolonged use if the vapor was outside.

                                    Slainte, Riku

                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Harry,
                                    > >
                                    > > I wouldn't say it corrodes in short order. I've used aluminum convector pipes as reflux condensers for some 30++ runs and they show no signs of corrosion. The shine goes away but no corrosion. In principle it should be safe even as the product condenser, but with all the bad rap aluminum gets I feel more comfortable with copper personally.
                                    > >
                                    > > Slainte, Riku
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Which side did you have the vapor? Inside the pipe, or outside contacting the fins?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Slainte!
                                    > regards Harry
                                    >
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