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RE: [Distillers] nocino

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  • Robert Hubble
    Ion, Since I don t have trouble losing alcohol by evaporation with even the simplest closure, and since you are not measuring ethanol content directly, but are
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 12 8:33 AM
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      Ion,

      Since I don't have trouble losing alcohol by evaporation with even the simplest closure, and since you are not measuring ethanol content directly, but are inferring it from specific gravity, I'm going to guess you are dissolving something denser than water into your maceration. I've never made nocino (I've wanted to, though) so I don't know what that dense material might be, but I think that's what's happening.

      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      From: ionbrown@...
      Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:47:32 +0000
      Subject: [Distillers] nocino

       
      In new zealand, walnuts are ready about 25 dec. I have made two batches, 08 and 09. The 08 batch started off quite foul, but as the months have passed, it has restored my faith. This is worth doing. 15 months on and it's developing wonderful complex flavouring and after taste. My problem is losing ethanol. I start off with 95% abv. After 30 days in the sun, both batches dropped to 40% abv, according to my hydrometer. The container for the first lot 08 had a glass 5 ltr jar with a plastic screw top. For the 09 lot I changed to a glass 4 ltr jar with an Agee or metal screw band and seal, determined to hinder the angels over indulging, but to no avail. I have taken my hydrometer reading after straining the Nocino ( no sugar added ) .Could it be too viscous and giving a false reading, or is this just the way of it, expansion and contraction with heat of the day. Some time ago, a member asked the same question but I missed the answer (nocino sylvaia 65 10-13-2008 ) Another question please, do you squeeze the walnuts for any nocino that may be left in the nut ? or is it best left alone. Regards Ion




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    • Shane Hughes
      Nocino is great but it takes more patience than other macerations.  As you note it takes at least a year to mellow out. Two years is better. More than that
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 12 4:07 PM
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        Nocino is great but it takes more patience than other macerations.  As you note it takes at least a year to mellow out. Two years is better. More than that I've never managed to be able to try.

        Do the math on the alcohol.  if you start out at 95% ABV and end up with 40% ABV and it is an "Angel's Share" problem, you would have lost a large volume of the liquid and would have noticed this. If that is happening, install a better seal on the lid.  Saran wrap under the metal caps helps.  I do that just to minimize potential corrosion of the cap over time. 

        If you are not losing the alcohol (as measured by a volume reduction in the jar) then the alcohol is displacing and being diluted by the liquid in the walnuts.  Just a cost of the process.  I never check the alcohol content of the finished product just add well water and sugar syrup to suit my taste.  Viscosity could affect your hygrometer measurements but the only way you will probably ever know is to take a measured sample and boil off the alcohol, then measure again.  A terrible waste in my view.  I prefer to dip my tongue in 80 proof rum then dip it in the Nocino and try to get it about the same.  It always works.  After several iterations of this it all appears to have about the same proof.

        I do not squeeze the nuts (never a good idea - pun intended) but I will let them drain for awhile.  If you try to press the alcohol out, I recommend keeping the two liquids separate (squeezed vs. not squeezed).

        I've seen recipes calling for the Nocino to be placed in the sun and others calling for it to be placed in a dark place.

        I keep it indoors and even if I leave it in the sun (widow sill), It is not that hot inside and evaporation has never been an issue for me.  I don't think it matters much as the alcohol is extracting material from the walnuts and this process does not appear to be either sun driven or heat driven though temperature may affect the time it takes for this to happen. Alcohol is a solvent and it is most likely a solvent extraction process at play.  Any chemist who wants can challenge this simplistic view and I won't be offended.

        --- On Thu, 3/11/10, brown_ion <ionbrown@...> wrote:

        From: brown_ion <ionbrown@...>
        Subject: [Distillers] nocino
        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, March 11, 2010, 1:47 PM

         

        In new zealand, walnuts are ready about 25 dec. I have made two batches, 08 and 09. The 08 batch started off quite foul, but as the months have passed, it has restored my faith. This is worth doing. 15 months on and it's developing wonderful complex flavouring and after taste. My problem is losing ethanol. I start off with 95% abv. After 30 days in the sun, both batches dropped to 40% abv, according to my hydrometer. The container for the first lot 08 had a glass 5 ltr jar with a plastic screw top. For the 09 lot I changed to a glass 4 ltr jar with an Agee or metal screw band and seal, determined to hinder the angels over indulging, but to no avail. I have taken my hydrometer reading after straining the Nocino ( no sugar added ) .Could it be too viscous and giving a false reading, or is this just the way of it, expansion and contraction with heat of the day. Some time ago, a member asked the same question but I missed the answer (nocino sylvaia 65 10-13-2008 ) Another question please, do you squeeze the walnuts for any nocino that may be left in the nut ? or is it best left alone. Regards Ion


      • miciofelice2003
        Hi Ion and everybody. I m a fan of Nocino, and I prepare it following the old recipe of Modena, an italian city where Nocino is quite loved. They use to keep
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 12 6:36 PM
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          Hi Ion and everybody.
          I'm a fan of Nocino, and I prepare it following the old recipe of Modena, an italian city where Nocino is quite loved. They use to keep it into oak casks for years and years.

          Walnuts are ready (in Italy they are used to do it at 23 of June, but now it's better to anticipate to 18-20 june because seasons are quit hot) when you can cut easily the walnuts with a knife.

          I use a glass jar and I put into 1 kg of walnuts divided in 4 parts (8 parts is better) and 900 grams of sugar. I leave on te sun for some days, normally 4 or 6 are more than enough, till the sugar is completely dissolved.
          At this point I add 1 liter of pure alcoohol at 95% and I leave on the sun till the end of october.

          Then I filter two times and, without adding water, I bottle and I put in a dark and fresh place for a minimum of 3 months, better 6 months, 1 year is the top.

          I get a dense, little bit strong (but not too much, believe me) liqueur.

          I don't press what left into the jar: I add about 1 bottle of white, strong wine and I leave into the jar for about 1 week. Then I filter and bottle. After a while the wine will taste a lot like nocino, will be a little bit less dense but the taste will be good, just to use as aperitif.

          Ciao a tutti

          micio felice
        • Ion Brown
          Many thanks Robert and Shane, I didn t notice any loss in the jars. After filtering the maceration I noticed I was slightly down on the liquid. So perhaps
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 12 7:08 PM
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            Many thanks Robert and Shane, I didn't notice any loss in the jars. After filtering the maceration I noticed I was slightly down on the liquid. So perhaps absorption into the walnuts and the wrong hydrometer reading could be my problem. I feel better already. I like your test Shane, I could get good at that ! Regards Ion
          • Ion Brown
            Thank you for your recipe Micio, I will try your recipe next time, It s quite different to the one I used and sounds good. I will have to find more people with
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 12 8:57 PM
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              Thank you for your recipe Micio,

              I will try your recipe next time, It's quite different to the one I used and sounds good. I will have to find more people with walnut trees though, and be very nice to them............. Especially when harvesting green walnut time comes around. Regards Ion
            • miciofelice2003
              Ciao Ion, I forgot to say something may be a little stupid, but sometimes I forget to say: walnuts must be with the husk, otherwise isn t good. And, last but
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 13 4:50 AM
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                Ciao Ion,
                I forgot to say something may be a little stupid, but sometimes I forget to say: walnuts must be with the husk, otherwise isn't good.
                And, last but not the least, (but now is a joke and take it as a joke) you must have a blond, virgin girl, wearing a long white dress, that walk barefoot on the early morning on the graas wet of dew to collect walnuts for you.
                Such in this way the success of your nocino is for sure or, at least, you will have a lot of fun.

                Ciao a tutti

                micio felice




                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ion Brown <ionbrown@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thank you for your recipe Micio,
                >
                > I will try your recipe next time, It's quite different to the one I used and sounds good. I will have to find more people with walnut trees though, and be very nice to them............. Especially when harvesting green walnut time comes around. Regards Ion
                >
              • Ion Brown
                Dear Micio Between bad nocino (no blond ) and bad wife ( with blond ) .............I m thinking !!!!!!!!! ........ If I get into trouble, I suppose I
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 13 12:28 PM
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                  Dear Micio
                  Between bad nocino (no blond ) and bad wife ( with blond ) .............I'm thinking !!!!!!!!! ........ If I get into trouble, I suppose I could site, " consideration of sensitive Italian culture"...........mmmm......still thinking !!!!!!
                  Regards Ion
                • PhilipWilson
                  Ion, I made about 10 liters of nocino in 2007, mascerating green walnut pieces in 95% for a couple of months, with some clove, cinnamon, and lemon zest
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 14 8:44 AM
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                    Ion,

                    I made about 10 liters of nocino in 2007, mascerating green walnut pieces in 95% for a couple of months, with some clove, cinnamon, and lemon zest (following one of Micio's earlier recipes.) I've only got 2 liters left, and I'm kicking myself for drinking the rest too early. It has developed amazing notes of chocolate, coffee, nuts, and spices. The colour has gone from greenish black engine oil to a lovely deep brown.

                    I have no idea what the hydrometer would say about my nocino, but I wouldn't trust it at all. The juices from the green walnuts (and sugar) are denser than water, so would make the reading artificially low. By taste, I'd guess it's around 50% abv. I find this stuff too concentrated in flavour, so dilute with some 40% neutral before serving.

                    As others have suggested, you can recover some of the flavour and alcohol from the walnuts with a second soak in a dry white wine for an aperitif.

                    An alternative is to distill the used walnuts. (Make sure they're well-covered in water so they don't burn.) This produces an interesting spirit with some of the high-notes from the green walnut essence. I tend to do this after making any mascerated liqueur in volume; sloes and raspberries work particularly well.

                    Enjoy!

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brown_ion" <ionbrown@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > In new zealand, walnuts are ready about 25 dec. I have made two batches, 08 and 09. The 08 batch started off quite foul, but as the months have passed, it has restored my faith. This is worth doing. 15 months on and it's developing wonderful complex flavouring and after taste. My problem is losing ethanol. I start off with 95% abv. After 30 days in the sun, both batches dropped to 40% abv, according to my hydrometer. The container for the first lot 08 had a glass 5 ltr jar with a plastic screw top. For the 09 lot I changed to a glass 4 ltr jar with an Agee or metal screw band and seal, determined to hinder the angels over indulging, but to no avail. I have taken my hydrometer reading after straining the Nocino ( no sugar added ) .Could it be too viscous and giving a false reading, or is this just the way of it, expansion and contraction with heat of the day. Some time ago, a member asked the same question but I missed the answer (nocino sylvaia 65 10-13-2008 ) Another question please, do you squeeze the walnuts for any nocino that may be left in the nut ? or is it best left alone. Regards Ion
                    >
                  • pint_o_shine
                    Micio, you forgot to add that it is always on the Nativity od Saint John the Baptist the Forerunner feast day June 24 in the northern hemisphere.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 14 9:33 AM
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                      Micio, you forgot to add that it is always on the Nativity od Saint John the Baptist the Forerunner feast day June 24 in the northern hemisphere.

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ion Brown <ionbrown@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dear Micio
                      > Between bad nocino (no blond ) and bad wife ( with blond ) .............I'm thinking !!!!!!!!! ........ If I get into trouble, I suppose I could site, " consideration of sensitive Italian culture"...........mmmm......still thinking !!!!!!
                      > Regards Ion
                      >
                    • miciofelice2003
                      Ciao Pint. Yes, you are right, the old tales ask to do it on St. John the Baptist day, but they din t imagine something lithe the Nijno, the warming of
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 14 12:39 PM
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                        Ciao Pint.
                        Yes, you are right, the old tales ask to do it on St. John the Baptist day, but they din't imagine something lithe the Nijno, the warming of athmosphere, etc.

                        Anyway, that day is almost the solstice day, and is full of meanings: in Italy, during the past, they were used to celebrate it. And, you know, in the middle-south of Italy, once upon a time a village was there, named Malevento (bad event), because a lot of witches were used to have a lot of happenings every night of full moon.

                        Inhabitants were a little bit bored and frightened of this, and made a lot of prayers to God to stop all those bad things, because the witches were also used to sacrify every night of full moon a young boy to the Devil.

                        Making it short, God decided, at the end, to send an angel that destroyed all the witches and so the population decided to turne the name of the village in Benevento /good event).

                        Note that the witches were used to have the meeting under an old, big walnut tree, placed on the country of the village. The inhabitants decided to make a liqueur of the walnuts to celebrate that fact and as a talisman against witches.

                        It is for this reason that there, in the Middle-South of Italy nocino is quite strong, almost 70%. In Modena (the city of Ferrari cars) is about 40 - 45 % (no witches there, I suppose).

                        So, I gave you a little bit of the old italian tales.

                        Ciao a tutti.

                        micio felice





                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "pint_o_shine" <pintoshine@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Micio, you forgot to add that it is always on the Nativity od Saint John the Baptist the Forerunner feast day June 24 in the northern hemisphere.
                        >
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ion Brown <ionbrown@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Dear Micio
                        > > Between bad nocino (no blond ) and bad wife ( with blond ) .............I'm thinking !!!!!!!!! ........ If I get into trouble, I suppose I could site, " consideration of sensitive Italian culture"...........mmmm......still thinking !!!!!!
                        > > Regards Ion
                        > >
                        >
                      • Ion Brown
                        Philip, The recipe of Micio s you followed, is the one I used for both my batches of Nocino. I ll stick with it next time but will also use the old Modena
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 14 1:13 PM
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                          Philip,

                          The recipe of Micio's you followed, is the one I used for both my batches of Nocino. I'll stick with it next time but will also use the "old Modena" recipe that Micio is using now, as well. It means from now on, being nice to people who own walnut trees, will become an art form, but worth it.

                          I would like to say at this point, a big THANK YOU, to you all, for your help, suggestions and recipes. I have learnt a lot from this and it has given me confidence to carry on..... Agrumello will be made, Limoncello has been made. Regards Ion
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