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Re: White oak vs. red oak?

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  • geoff
    Hi Riku, The grain of the red oak wood is very porous and your hard won ethanol will fast disappear through the barrel walls and release sharp tastes to your
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 6, 2010
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      Hi Riku,

      The grain of the red oak wood is very porous and your hard won ethanol will fast disappear through the barrel walls and release sharp tastes to your whiskey.  But the white oak with the tighter grain, which all the Bourbon barrels are made of release nice tasting vanillas  and the tannins turns your whiskey a beautiful golden amber.

       Geoff   

    • abbababbaccc
      Right, so it s a piece of white oak I have. Is there a way of differentiating quercus rubus from quercus alba when looking at a piece of wood? Slainte, Riku
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 6, 2010
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        Right, so it's a piece of white oak I have. Is there a way of differentiating quercus rubus from quercus alba when looking at a piece of wood?

        Slainte, Riku

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Rufus" <rufusroughguts@...> wrote:
        >
        > Riku, Generally, white Oak wood is white or very light yellow just after it has been cut. Red oak is a light shade of red or has a light reddish tint to the wood - just after being cut.
        >
        > The easiest way to discern them is during the summer while the leaves are on the trees. White oak leaves are rounded at the tips and red oak are pointed.
        >
        > White oak bark is very rough and red oak is much smoother too.
        >
        > I can't remember all the reasons but aging barrels for spirits or wine are made from white oak never red. Hope this helps.
        >
        > Regards,
        > R
        >
      • jamesonbeam1
        Not proclaiming to be an expert in oak Riku, I do know a bit about woods and barrels. You definitly do not want to use red oak for barrels since it is so
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 7, 2010
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          Not proclaiming to be an expert in oak Riku, I do know a bit about woods and barrels.  You definitly do not want to use red oak for barrels since it is so pourous, it will leak like a drunk sailor, but might still add the desired vanillan oaken flaovors to your distillate if you burn some oak chips out of it...  Check out Download article here for a description of the differences. 

          Since there are about 400 different species of oak with over 150 different species just in America, you really need to be a bit more specific and maybe take you sample to a wood specialist for identification. 

          I do Know that the majority of barrels used in the whisk(e)y  and rum worlds  are made from good ol' American White Oak (Quercus alba), since we export most of our second hand Bourbon Barrels abroad.  Probably why its so expensive since we can only use them once lol.

          Anyways try first making some chips out of it,  either roasted (direct fire) or toasted (indirect heat in the oven) and age some distillate in it.  See what the outcome is...

          Vino es Veritas,

          Jim aka Waldo.


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
          >
          > Right, so it's a piece of white oak I have. Is there a way of differentiating quercus rubus from quercus alba when looking at a piece of wood?
          >
          > Slainte, Riku
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Rufus" rufusroughguts@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Riku, Generally, white Oak wood is white or very light yellow just after it has been cut. Red oak is a light shade of red or has a light reddish tint to the wood - just after being cut.
          > >
          > > The easiest way to discern them is during the summer while the leaves are on the trees. White oak leaves are rounded at the tips and red oak are pointed.
          > >
          > > White oak bark is very rough and red oak is much smoother too.
          > >
          > > I can't remember all the reasons but aging barrels for spirits or wine are made from white oak never red. Hope this helps.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > > R
          > >
          >

        • bluejakeditto
          Riku, Cut some straws from your piece of wood about 4 - 8 long. Stick one end in a glass of water and blow on the other end of the straw . If you see
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 7, 2010
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            Riku,
            Cut some "straws" from your piece of wood about 4" - 8" long. Stick one end in a glass of water and blow on the other end of the "straw". If you see bubbles it's NOT White Oak, but probably Red Oak.

            Regards, bluejakeditto

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
            >
            > A question to the experts, how do you identify whether a piece of timber is white oak or red oak?
            >
            > Slainte, Riku
            >
          • pint_o_shine
            Check this out riku, this is for a piece of red oak split along the grain. It is effectively a straw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIXZ9iYM4PA white oak does
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 7, 2010
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              Check this out riku, this is for a piece of red oak split along the grain. It is effectively a straw.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIXZ9iYM4PA
              white oak does not have this capability. European oak suffers from this slightly.

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Not proclaiming to be an expert in oak Riku, I do know a bit about woods
              > and barrels. You definitly do not want to use red oak for barrels since
              > it is so pourous, it will leak like a drunk sailor, but might still add
              > the desired vanillan oaken flaovors to your distillate if you burn some
              > oak chips out of it... Check out Download article here
              > <http://www.rtlondon.com/document/file/50/Red_vs._White_Oak_Article.pdf>
              > for a description of the differences.
              >
              > Since there are about 400 different species of oak with over 150
              > different species just in America, you really need to be a bit more
              > specific and maybe take you sample to a wood specialist for
              > identification.
              >
              > I do Know that the majority of barrels used in the whisk(e)y and rum
              > worlds are made from good ol' American White Oak (Quercus alba), since
              > we export most of our second hand Bourbon Barrels abroad. Probably why
              > its so expensive since we can only use them once lol.
              >
              > Anyways try first making some chips out of it, either roasted (direct
              > fire) or toasted (indirect heat in the oven) and age some distillate in
              > it. See what the outcome is...
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              >
              > Jim aka Waldo.
              >
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Right, so it's a piece of white oak I have. Is there a way of
              > differentiating quercus rubus from quercus alba when looking at a piece
              > of wood?
              > >
              > > Slainte, Riku
              > >
              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Rufus" rufusroughguts@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Riku, Generally, white Oak wood is white or very light yellow just
              > after it has been cut. Red oak is a light shade of red or has a light
              > reddish tint to the wood - just after being cut.
              > > >
              > > > The easiest way to discern them is during the summer while the
              > leaves are on the trees. White oak leaves are rounded at the tips and
              > red oak are pointed.
              > > >
              > > > White oak bark is very rough and red oak is much smoother too.
              > > >
              > > > I can't remember all the reasons but aging barrels for spirits or
              > wine are made from white oak never red. Hope this helps.
              > > >
              > > > Regards,
              > > > R
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Compute User
              The cell ends of White Oak are not glued shut with lignin as they are in the Red Oak group. This means if you split a smallish piece (less that 1 x1  buy
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 11, 2010
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                The cell "ends" of White Oak are not "glued" shut with lignin as they are in the Red Oak group.
                This means if you split a smallish piece (less that 1"x1" buy 2 to 3 inches long) and put one end under water, you will be able to blow though it and see bubbles.
                You could also cut a very thin transverse section and look under a microscope to see if the cell ends are ligninfied.
                When dried, White Oak also tastes sweeter and noticeably less bitter than the Red Oaks if you chaw up a hunk. 

                --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rufus <rufusroughguts@...> wrote:

                From: Rufus <rufusroughguts@...>
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: White oak vs. red oak?
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 8:04 AM

                 
                Riku, Generally, white Oak wood is white or very light yellow just after it has been cut. Red oak is a light shade of red or has a light reddish tint to the wood - just after being cut.

                The easiest way to discern them is during the summer while the leaves are on the trees. White oak leaves are rounded at the tips and red oak are pointed.

                White oak bark is very rough and red oak is much smoother too.

                I can't remember all the reasons but aging barrels for spirits or wine are made from white oak never red. Hope this helps.

                Regards,
                R

                --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > A question to the experts, how do you identify whether a piece of timber is white oak or red oak?
                >
                > Slainte, Riku
                >


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