Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: alcohol as gasline fuel treatment?

Expand Messages
  • grahamfennie
    Hi Keith (et al), I would like to point out (politely) that you are incorrect, though many people share your misinformed perception. At the risk of getting the
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 16, 2009
      Hi Keith (et al),

      I would like to point out (politely) that you are incorrect, though many people share your misinformed perception. At the risk of getting the "beverage" folks pissed off at me, I'll just point out one or two things. Please feel free to re-post this to the "fuel" group if you like.

      You can mix "hydrous" ethanol with gasoline without having the mixture separate, but saying that "you can" and "you can't" (either way) is a gross over-simplification.

      Phase separation only occurs when there is TOO much water in the mixture and if the temperature is TOO cold. Some water in the ethanol/gasoline mixture is just fine. In fact, some water in the mixture can be beneficial (increased power, reduced emissions, etc) but that's a much longer e-mail.

      For example, it is true that phase separation CAN occur if you have a mixture of 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol, AND if the ethanol is less than about 195 proof AND if the temperature drops below about -25C. Whether the mixture will separate (or not) depends on at least those four variables.

      The University of Denmark (T. Johansen, J. Schramm) did an exhaustive evaluation of "myth vs. reality" and found, among other things, that a 50/50 mixture of ethanol and gasoline would not phase separate (even at -25C), even if the ethanol was only 180 proof. We successfully validated their results in our lab.

      Please read the full text of their research here:
      http://www.iea-amf.vtt.fi/pdf/annex35report_final.pdf

      In addition, ethanol absorbs water and carries it out of your gas tank. Gasoline does not (gas "floats" on the layer of water). The implications of this should be obvious.

      Oh, and by the way, you probably already have water in your gas tank even if you've never used ethanol. Condensation will do that.

      Feel free to contact me directly if you'd like me to explain any of this in detail.

      Cheers!
      -Graham

      Graham A. Fennie
      Founder, Epiphergy
      (585) 385-7677 x111

      "An Energy Epiphany"
      http://www.epiphergy.com


      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, keith cottrell <sourkrout8165@...> wrote:
      >
      > For ethanol alcohol to be used in a car it needs to be 200 proof or 100% abv. if its anything less soon as you mix it with gas it will separate the water from the alcohol and you will get water in your gas tank
      >
      > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, mstehelin <mstehelin@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: mstehelin <mstehelin@...>
      > Subject: [Distillers] alcohol as gasline fuel treatment?
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 6:38 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello All,
      >
      > One silly question. I know that methyl hydrate will help with water in gasoline. Will ethanol do the same? If Yes- at what ABV?
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > M.
      >
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.