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Re: Internal Reflux in a Pot Still - Need Help

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  • abbababbaccc
    To a small degree increased lid area will improve ABV. However, the shape you describe causes droplets that form to drop down quickly thus to some degree
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
      To a small degree increased lid area will improve ABV. However, the shape you describe causes droplets that form to drop down quickly thus to some degree negating the effect of increased area.

      On the other hand, when you have a pipe where condensation happens and hot vapor is whizzing past all the time the improvement is more noticeable.

      That 94-95% I got is for the hearts. Heads I took out at zero reflux and they were about 10% ABV higher than with a potstill. As tails started the ABV was dropping quite quickly and I quit at 20% ABV. I was aiming for light whisky and there was quite enough flavor for that purpose, actually a bit heavy on tails to my taste. The trick is that you need to be more careful when doing cuts and take perhaps a bit earlier heads cut. Running hearts at reflux gives you more for your trouble.

      We can here make a comparison to grain neutral produced in Scotland, they take it out at (IIRC) 94.2% ABV in continuous mode. When aged it makes very good light whisky and if you can find a botlle of Grant's Black Barrel it's definately worth trying.

      Slainte, Riku


      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Ok Riku,
      >
      > Think im following that. Maybe way off base here, but wouldn't the
      > condensation on the dome start to vaporize as it drops down the sides of
      > the dome towards the heat and increase the ABV of the vapors comming off
      > the liquid?
      >
      > What really concerns me is the fact that Tony's calculations on Pot
      > Still Purity do not reflect increases in ABV as you change the Internal
      > Reflux percents. I know alot of people use this calculator as I did
      > when starting out.
      >
      > One more question - You said when running your Thor's hammer, you were
      > getting 94 - 95% ABV for whisky. Is'nt that a way bit too high for
      > keeping the flavors? Usually they say not to distill flavored grain
      > mashes over 75% to 80% ABV due to loss of flavor.
      >
      > Our Bourbons can't be distilled over 160 proof. But anyways, thanks a
      > bunch for the inputs.
      >
      > Vino es Veritas,
      >
      > Jim aka Waldo.
      >
      >
      >
    • jamesonbeam1
      Hi Mason, Yes, im sure the heads might be over 160 proof and the tails under 160 proof as Riku just described, so it equals out to 160 or below proof. But I
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009

        Hi Mason,

        Yes, im sure the heads might be over 160 proof and the tails under 160 proof as Riku just described, so it equals out to 160 or below proof.  But I still would not try distilling my sour corn mash at the 94 to 95% ABV levels that Riku mentioned.

        Regarding the "official" governing document - 27 CFR 5.22(b). it only states:

         (1)(i) "Bourbon whisky", "rye whisky", "wheat whisky", "malt whisky", or "rye malt whisky" is whisky produced at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat, malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively, and stored at not more than 125° proof in charred new oak containers; and also includes mixtures of such whiskies of the same type. 

        http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=21224b7c634d83e0fa329bfd18bb85dc&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.3.3.25.2&idno=27

        Vino es Veritas,

        Jim aka Waldo.

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
        >
        > > Our Bourbons can't be distilled over 160 proof. But anyways, thanks a
        > > bunch for the inputs.
        > >
        > > Vino es Veritas,
        > >
        > > Jim aka Waldo.
        >
        >
        > The way I understand it is that the ABV of the run (everything mixed, heads to tails) cant be over 80%. There is an old post from Pint on the subject. April/May 08. I asked a similar question.
        >
        > Mason
        >

      • abbababbaccc
        Actually I just did a sour corn mash few weeks ago using that technique and it turned out just fine. You can have a dram to test if you pop by ;) The thing is
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
          Actually I just did a sour corn mash few weeks ago using that technique and it turned out just fine. You can have a dram to test if you pop by ;)

          The thing is that high ABV is not stripping off anything, rather concentrating different congeners. As described by Ian Smiley you can make perfectly good whisky with high ABV if you pay attention to details. The procedure is somewhat different from a potstill but it gives you much more hearts and less feints.

          Slainte, Riku

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > But I still would not try distilling my sour corn mash at the 94 to 95%
          > ABV levels that Riku mentioned.
          >
          >
        • jamesonbeam1
          OOOPS, Sorry Riku, didn t mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot still I
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009

            OOOPS,

            Sorry Riku,  didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot still I have...  Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar Southerner  simple pot stiller too...:)

            Vino es Veritas,

            Jim aka Waldo.  (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
            >
            > Actually I just did a sour corn mash few weeks ago using that technique and it turned out just fine. You can have a dram to test if you pop by ;)
            >
            > The thing is that high ABV is not stripping off anything, rather concentrating different congeners. As described by Ian Smiley you can make perfectly good whisky with high ABV if you pay attention to details. The procedure is somewhat different from a potstill but it gives you much more hearts and less feints.
            >
            > Slainte, Riku
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > But I still would not try distilling my sour corn mash at the 94 to 95%
            > > ABV levels that Riku mentioned.
            > >
            > >
            >

          • abbababbaccc
            No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
              No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.

              Slainte, Riku

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > OOOPS,
              >
              > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
              > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
              > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
              > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              >
              > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
              >
              >
              >
            • waljaco
              According to the Compleat Distiller, if you have a metre column filled with scrubbers, and you control the temperature, you should achieve 90%abv without a
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 4, 2009
                According to the Compleat Distiller, if you have a metre column filled with scrubbers, and you control the temperature, you should achieve 90%abv without a reflux condenser.
                wal
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                >
                > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                >
                > Slainte, Riku
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > OOOPS,
                > >
                > > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
                > > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
                > > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
                > > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
                > >
                > > Vino es Veritas,
                > >
                > > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • gff_stwrt
                Hi, Wal and hello folks, I think I ll try that one day with my pot still. I have two pieces of two inch copper pipe that I use alternately as a column; one of
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 4, 2009
                  Hi, Wal and hello folks,


                  I think I'll try that one day with my pot still. I have two pieces of two inch copper pipe that I use alternately as a column; one of (say) 2/3 of a metre and the other maybe 1 1/3 metre.
                  I can join them with slip fittings so that would be at least 2 metres and I think there is more of that sized pipe...

                  And I already have a couple of pounds of the good Amphora mesh.

                  So when I start some sugar washes again instead of fooling around trying to get good fruit brandy......

                  The Baker
                  (No I was not drunk in my last post when I mis-spelled my 'nom de plume'.!) G.


                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > According to the Compleat Distiller, if you have a metre column filled with scrubbers, and you control the temperature, you should achieve 90%abv without a reflux condenser.
                  > wal
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                  > >
                  > > Slainte, Riku
                  > >
                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > OOOPS,
                  > > >
                  > > > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
                  > > > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
                  > > > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
                  > > > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
                  > > >
                  > > > Vino es Veritas,
                  > > >
                  > > > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • jeandenis308
                  I can add to this that it does work, although it whas with a presure cooker and a cornflakes mash. the lid could hold 3 liters and the pipe sticked out about 3
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 5, 2009
                    I can add to this that it does work, although it whas with a presure cooker and a cornflakes mash. the lid could hold 3 liters and the pipe sticked out about 3 inches, wich whas only 10 ore 12 inches tall and the lower part whas filled up to 4 inch with scrubbers.

                    i could turn the heat so low that it just barely boiled and got results to 93 % with a 12% mash in it.

                    Now, i dont think it would be the reflux that made it so high because there whas still a lot of flavor, but sooner the really slow boil.
                    ( took me a whole day for just a bottle )
                    the scrubbers helped pre cool the the steam and later on a'd put a little wind blower on top of it for a bit more reflux.
                    It did work and had fine whiskey from it.

                    but i now stepped up and got a new system.
                    wich btw works almost the same.
                    (if you can get your hand on the book The complete Distiller it will show the fractioning still wich we better know as a reflux still)

                    so with very little heat and muchos patience it will work.
                    but then later you want something more efficient cause a whole day heat on it will eventually cost you more the the worth of it.
                    then better rerun it twice ore trippled

                    Greets

                    JD

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                    >
                    > Slainte, Riku
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > OOOPS,
                    > >
                    > > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
                    > > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
                    > > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
                    > > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
                    > >
                    > > Vino es Veritas,
                    > >
                    > > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • jamesonbeam1
                    Beaucoup Thanks Riku, Wal and JD, Have a couple of feet of 1 copper in the basement will try it with that. I tried the scrubbers in my 1/2 riser a year or
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 5, 2009
                      Beaucoup Thanks Riku, Wal and JD,

                      Have a couple of feet of 1" copper in the basement will try it with
                      that. I tried the scrubbers in my 1/2" riser a year or so back and did
                      in fact get about a 10% or so ABV increase.

                      Vino es Veritas,

                      Jim aka Waldo.


                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jeandenis308" <jeandenis308@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > I can add to this that it does work, although it whas with a presure
                      cooker and a cornflakes mash. the lid could hold 3 liters and the pipe
                      sticked out about 3 inches, wich whas only 10 ore 12 inches tall and the
                      lower part whas filled up to 4 inch with scrubbers.
                      >
                      > i could turn the heat so low that it just barely boiled and got
                      results to 93 % with a 12% mash in it.
                      >
                      > Greets
                      >
                      > JD
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" abbababbaccc@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have
                      a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not
                      stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or
                      have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher
                      ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                      > >
                      > > Slainte, Riku
                    • Robert Hubble
                      Jameson, In the land of clear falling waters and majestic trees to the sky, my people have a wise old saying: My ass! Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller To:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 5, 2009
                        Jameson,

                        In the land of clear falling waters and majestic trees to the sky, my people have a wise old saying: "My ass!"

                        Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        From: jamesonbeam1@...
                        Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:31:08 +0000
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Internal Reflux in a Pot Still - Need Help

                         

                        ----snip----

                        Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar Southerner  simple pot stiller too...:) Vino es Veritas,
                        Jim aka Waldo.  (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                        ----snip----


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