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Internal Reflux in a Pot Still - Need Help

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  • jamesonbeam1
    Hi All, This situation has been causing me a bit of grief for some time now. I ve built several pot stills - some with flat covers, but my first still used an
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 1, 2009
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      Hi All,

      This situation has been causing me a bit of grief for some time now.  I've built several pot stills - some with flat covers, but my first still  used an aluminum Bundt cake pan that looks like this:

      I cut down the center a bit and fitted a 1/2" copper riser to my copper lyne arm.  I started using this with an aluminum boiler then switched over to 15 liter SS boiler with a flat lid.

      I recently found that that bundt pan fit fine on the SS boiler and tried some runs with it.  The still looks like this: My First still

      The riser is 24" high and necks down at a 45 degree angle for about 2 and 1/2 feet to the condenser - a copper,  double barrel shotgun style, in a 24 quart plastic  beer cooler (I know sounds kinky lol), but works the nuts.

      Anyways when using this bundt pan with a 14% sugar wash, i am consistantly getting around a 75% ABV (150 proof)  on the heads.  Now according to Tony's Pot Still Purity chart I should be getting around a 58% ABV on the Heads like this:

      Input your Pot still characteristics

      Initial Volume of Wash L
      Alcohol Content % by volume
      Initial Temperature C
      Power during Heat-up W
      Power during Distillation W
      %Internal Reflux %

      TimeTempCollectedPurityTotal CollectedTotal Purity

      Now when using a flat head, It  get closer to these figures.  I understand about inernal reflux in a pot still, but does just the fact im using a domed head account for such a drastic increase in ABV (17% or so)?

      I know Whisk(e)y makers, and many professional stills use domed heads, but when I key in the different internal reflux percents in Tony's calculator, it still shows a 58% ABV comming out.  

      Is it me or is it Tony Ackland's programming???

      Thanks for any help.

      Vino es Veritas,

      Jim aka Waldo.

       

    • rye_junkie1
      ... Hey Jim, I ll throw my 2 pennies in the ring here. Reflux Rigs are somewhat easy to calculate purity if you know and can do the math. They are also, for
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 1, 2009
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi All,
        >
        > This situation has been causing me a bit of grief for some time now.
        > I've built several pot stills - some with flat covers, but my first
        > still used an aluminum Bundt cake pan that looks like this:
        >
        > I cut down the center a bit and fitted a 1/2" copper riser to my copper
        > lyne arm. I started using this with an aluminum boiler then switched
        > over to 15 liter SS boiler with a flat lid.
        >
        > I recently found that that bundt pan fit fine on the SS boiler and tried
        > some runs with it. The still looks like this: [My First still]
        >
        > The riser is 24" high and necks down at a 45 degree angle for about 2
        > and 1/2 feet to the condenser - a copper, double barrel shotgun style,
        > in a 24 quart plastic beer cooler (I know sounds kinky lol), but works
        > the nuts.
        >
        > Anyways when using this bundt pan with a 14% sugar wash, i am
        > consistantly getting around a 75% ABV (150 proof) on the heads. Now
        > according to Tony's Pot Still Purity chart I should be getting around a
        > 58% ABV on the Heads like this:
        > Input your Pot still characteristics
        > Initial Volume of Wash L
        > Alcohol Content % by volume
        > Initial Temperature C
        > Power during Heat-up W
        > Power during Distillation W
        > %Internal Reflux %
        >
        >
        > Time Temp Collected Purity Total Collected Total Purity
        > Now when using a flat head, It get closer to these figures. I
        > understand about inernal reflux in a pot still, but does just the fact
        > im using a domed head account for such a drastic increase in ABV (17% or
        > so)?
        >
        > I know Whisk(e)y makers, and many professional stills use domed heads,
        > but when I key in the different internal reflux percents in Tony's
        > calculator, it still shows a 58% ABV comming out.
        >
        > Is it me or is it Tony Ackland's programming???
        >
        > Thanks for any help.
        >
        > Vino es Veritas,
        >
        > Jim aka Waldo.
        >

        Hey Jim, I'll throw my 2 pennies in the ring here.
        Reflux Rigs are somewhat easy to calculate purity if you know and can do the math. They are also, for the most part, of the same design. Column diameter, length of column, insulated column, packing. Pot still are totally different animals and although some of you guys kid with the "Simple Pot Stiller" and "Purist" titles there is nothing simple when it comes to a pot still. To me those calculations are worthless just because of the sheer number of different Pot Still designs out there. Z Bob runs a Keg with 2 feet of uninsulated 2" pipe on top and says his brandies lack flavor, Other guys try to de tune reflux rigs to run them as pot stills. Your design is especially interesting because you have that "pocket" up top and I bet the creates an enormous amount of reflux. Add to that a 2 foot uninsulated riser and you got yourself an efficient pot still. Consider this change I recently made to my pot rig. I too, like Z Bob am looking for more flavor in my whiskeys. My pot rig is a 32 qt boiler with a mixing bowl on top. It HAD a 6"L x 1"Dia riser tee'd to 3/4" then over 24" and elbowed straight down to the Liebig. The change that I made was cutting off the riser and capping it off. I then cut a hole in the mixing bowl about 3/4 the way up the side and brazed 1" pipe in there and then adapted it to 3/4" to the liebig.. That seemingly simple change dropped the ABV on a strip run 6%. Insulating the bowl should reduce efficiency as well. Insulation is cheap. Get you some of that silver bubble wrap stuff from lowes and insulate that riser to the downturn.
        Here is another short example. Using 2"x 24" column under my X flow head, Unpacked and un insulated at 1440watts will put the Heads from a strip run (10-12% wash) at about 85% and the overall run will be in the 60's.
        There are just too many variables.

        Mason
      • jamesonbeam1
        Hey Mason, Thanks buddy, i ll give your suggestions a try. I know the un-insulated 24 riser (column) will give some reflux, but didn t think the dome would
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 1, 2009
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          Hey Mason,

          Thanks buddy,  i'll give your suggestions a try.  I know the un-insulated 24" riser (column) will give some reflux, but didn't think the dome would add that much more.  Might be the fact that the input tube is much lower than the dome itself (weeeee - maybe me invented a new type of pot still :) LOL).

          Also, I really think Tony's calculator programming is a bit screwed up because when you key in different internal reflux percents,  the over all ABV stays the same but only the Total Collected column changes. 

          Now you and I know (along with others) that the more internal reflux, the higher the ABV output should be in a pot still (me thinks lol)...

          Thanks.

          Vino es Veritas,

          Jim aka Waldo.


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hey Jim, I'll throw my 2 pennies in the ring here.
          > Reflux Rigs are somewhat easy to calculate purity if you know and can do the math. They are also, for the most part, of the same design. Column diameter, length of column, insulated column, packing. Pot still are totally different animals and although some of you guys kid with the "Simple Pot Stiller" and "Purist" titles there is nothing simple when it comes to a pot still. To me those calculations are worthless just because of the sheer number of different Pot Still designs out there. Z Bob runs a Keg with 2 feet of uninsulated 2" pipe on top and says his brandies lack flavor, Other guys try to de tune reflux rigs to run them as pot stills. Your design is especially interesting because you have that "pocket" up top and I bet the creates an enormous amount of reflux. Add to that a 2 foot uninsulated riser and you got yourself an efficient pot still. Consider this change I recently made to my pot rig. I too, like Z Bob am looking for more flavor in my whiskeys. My pot rig is a 32 qt boiler with a mixing bowl on top. It HAD a 6"L x 1"Dia riser tee'd to 3/4" then over 24" and elbowed straight down to the Liebig. The change that I made was cutting off the riser and capping it off. I then cut a hole in the mixing bowl about 3/4 the way up the side and brazed 1" pipe in there and then adapted it to 3/4" to the liebig.. That seemingly simple change dropped the ABV on a strip run 6%. Insulating the bowl should reduce efficiency as well. Insulation is cheap. Get you some of that silver bubble wrap stuff from lowes and insulate that riser to the downturn.
          > Here is another short example. Using 2"x 24" column under my X flow head, Unpacked and un insulated at 1440watts will put the Heads from a strip run (10-12% wash) at about 85% and the overall run will be in the 60's.
          > There are just too many variables.
          >
          > Mason

        • abbababbaccc
          I don t think the lid shape has much to do in this case. What we are looking at is internal reflux and very little INTERNAL reflux happens on the lid. Rather
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 1, 2009
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            I don't think the "lid" shape has much to do in this case. What we are looking at is internal reflux and very little INTERNAL reflux happens on the lid. Rather the stuff that gets condensed drops back to mash. If we want to improve the internal RR a column is an easy solution. Have it unpacked at first as is often the case with potstill risers and if you want higher ABV and more separation add some packing. If that's not enough a small top condenser gives even more.

            As an example I was running my Thor's hammer head with 50cm packed column for whisky. With about 1:1 RR it kept giving 94-95% ABV untill tails started to come through. That is actually more than some get with their old style reflux columns.

            So, it all depends on what you want to make and how do you want to make it.

            Slainte, Riku

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hey Mason,
            >
            > Thanks buddy, i'll give your suggestions a try. I know the
            > un-insulated 24" riser (column) will give some reflux, but didn't think
            > the dome would add that much more. Might be the fact that the input
            > tube is much lower than the dome itself (weeeee - maybe me invented a
            > new type of pot still [:)] LOL).
            >
            > Also, I really think Tony's calculator programming is a bit screwed up
            > because when you key in different internal reflux percents, the over
            > all ABV stays the same but only the Total Collected column changes.
            >
            > Now you and I know (along with others) that the more internal reflux,
            > the higher the ABV output should be in a pot still (me thinks lol)...
            >
            > Thanks.
            >
            > Vino es Veritas,
            >
            > Jim aka Waldo.
            >
            >
            >
          • Robert Hubble
            Comments inline. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com From: rye_junkie@hotmail.com Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:43:31 +0000 Subject:
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 1, 2009
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              Comments inline.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              From: rye_junkie@...
              Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 19:43:31 +0000
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Internal Reflux in a Pot Still - Need Help

               
              --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@ ...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi All,
              >
              ----snip----
              >
              > Thanks for any help.
              >
              > Vino es Veritas,
              >
              > Jim aka Waldo.
              >

              Hey Jim, I'll throw my 2 pennies in the ring here.
              Reflux Rigs are somewhat easy to calculate purity if you know and can do the math. They are also, for the most part, of the same design. Column diameter, length of column, insulated column, packing. Pot still are totally different animals and although some of you guys kid with the "Simple Pot Stiller" and "Purist" titles there is nothing simple when it comes to a pot still. To me those calculations are worthless just because of the sheer number of different Pot Still designs out there. Z Bob runs a Keg with 2 feet of uninsulated 2" pipe on top and says his brandies lack flavor, Other guys try to de tune reflux rigs to run them as pot stills. Your design is especially interesting because you have that "pocket" up top and I bet the creates an enormous amount of reflux. Add to that a 2 foot uninsulated riser and you got yourself an efficient pot still. Consider this change I recently made to my pot rig. I too, like Z Bob am looking for more flavor in my whiskeys. My pot rig is a 32 qt boiler with a mixing bowl on top. It HAD a 6"L x 1"Dia riser tee'd to 3/4" then over 24" and elbowed straight down to the Liebig. The change that I made was cutting off the riser and capping it off. I then cut a hole in the mixing bowl about 3/4 the way up the side and brazed 1" pipe in there and then adapted it to 3/4" to the liebig.. That seemingly simple change dropped the ABV on a strip run 6%.

              Do you have an opinion on what happened to the flavor along with that 6% ABV drop?

              Insulating the bowl should reduce efficiency as well. Insulation is cheap. Get you some of that silver bubble wrap stuff from lowes and insulate that riser to the downturn.
              Here is another short example. Using 2"x 24" column under my X flow head, Unpacked and un insulated at 1440watts will put the Heads from a strip run (10-12% wash) at about 85% and the overall run will be in the 60's.
              There are just too many variables.
              As you noted, Mason, I'm looking at changing (augmenting?) my flavor profile, so I've got a new head design I'm playing with. Anything you guys find out with respect to flavor, I'd *really* like to hear about. Keep us posted.

              Mason




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            • jamesonbeam1
              Ok Riku, Think im following that. Maybe way off base here, but wouldn t the condensation on the dome start to vaporize as it drops down the sides of the dome
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 2, 2009
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                Ok Riku,

                Think im following that. Maybe way off base here, but wouldn't the
                condensation on the dome start to vaporize as it drops down the sides of
                the dome towards the heat and increase the ABV of the vapors comming off
                the liquid?

                What really concerns me is the fact that Tony's calculations on Pot
                Still Purity do not reflect increases in ABV as you change the Internal
                Reflux percents. I know alot of people use this calculator as I did
                when starting out.

                One more question - You said when running your Thor's hammer, you were
                getting 94 - 95% ABV for whisky. Is'nt that a way bit too high for
                keeping the flavors? Usually they say not to distill flavored grain
                mashes over 75% to 80% ABV due to loss of flavor.

                Our Bourbons can't be distilled over 160 proof. But anyways, thanks a
                bunch for the inputs.

                Vino es Veritas,

                Jim aka Waldo.


                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I don't think the "lid" shape has much to do in this case. What we are
                looking at is internal reflux and very little INTERNAL reflux happens on
                the lid. Rather the stuff that gets condensed drops back to mash. If we
                want to improve the internal RR a column is an easy solution. Have it
                unpacked at first as is often the case with potstill risers and if you
                want higher ABV and more separation add some packing. If that's not
                enough a small top condenser gives even more.
                >
                > As an example I was running my Thor's hammer head with 50cm packed
                column for whisky. With about 1:1 RR it kept giving 94-95% ABV untill
                tails started to come through. That is actually more than some get with
                their old style reflux columns.
                >
                > So, it all depends on what you want to make and how do you want to
                make it.
                >
                > Slainte, Riku
              • rye_junkie1
                ... The way I understand it is that the ABV of the run (everything mixed, heads to tails) cant be over 80%. There is an old post from Pint on the subject.
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 2, 2009
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:

                  > Our Bourbons can't be distilled over 160 proof. But anyways, thanks a
                  > bunch for the inputs.
                  >
                  > Vino es Veritas,
                  >
                  > Jim aka Waldo.


                  The way I understand it is that the ABV of the run (everything mixed, heads to tails) cant be over 80%. There is an old post from Pint on the subject. April/May 08. I asked a similar question.

                  Mason
                • abbababbaccc
                  To a small degree increased lid area will improve ABV. However, the shape you describe causes droplets that form to drop down quickly thus to some degree
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
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                    To a small degree increased lid area will improve ABV. However, the shape you describe causes droplets that form to drop down quickly thus to some degree negating the effect of increased area.

                    On the other hand, when you have a pipe where condensation happens and hot vapor is whizzing past all the time the improvement is more noticeable.

                    That 94-95% I got is for the hearts. Heads I took out at zero reflux and they were about 10% ABV higher than with a potstill. As tails started the ABV was dropping quite quickly and I quit at 20% ABV. I was aiming for light whisky and there was quite enough flavor for that purpose, actually a bit heavy on tails to my taste. The trick is that you need to be more careful when doing cuts and take perhaps a bit earlier heads cut. Running hearts at reflux gives you more for your trouble.

                    We can here make a comparison to grain neutral produced in Scotland, they take it out at (IIRC) 94.2% ABV in continuous mode. When aged it makes very good light whisky and if you can find a botlle of Grant's Black Barrel it's definately worth trying.

                    Slainte, Riku


                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Ok Riku,
                    >
                    > Think im following that. Maybe way off base here, but wouldn't the
                    > condensation on the dome start to vaporize as it drops down the sides of
                    > the dome towards the heat and increase the ABV of the vapors comming off
                    > the liquid?
                    >
                    > What really concerns me is the fact that Tony's calculations on Pot
                    > Still Purity do not reflect increases in ABV as you change the Internal
                    > Reflux percents. I know alot of people use this calculator as I did
                    > when starting out.
                    >
                    > One more question - You said when running your Thor's hammer, you were
                    > getting 94 - 95% ABV for whisky. Is'nt that a way bit too high for
                    > keeping the flavors? Usually they say not to distill flavored grain
                    > mashes over 75% to 80% ABV due to loss of flavor.
                    >
                    > Our Bourbons can't be distilled over 160 proof. But anyways, thanks a
                    > bunch for the inputs.
                    >
                    > Vino es Veritas,
                    >
                    > Jim aka Waldo.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • jamesonbeam1
                    Hi Mason, Yes, im sure the heads might be over 160 proof and the tails under 160 proof as Riku just described, so it equals out to 160 or below proof. But I
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
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                      Hi Mason,

                      Yes, im sure the heads might be over 160 proof and the tails under 160 proof as Riku just described, so it equals out to 160 or below proof.  But I still would not try distilling my sour corn mash at the 94 to 95% ABV levels that Riku mentioned.

                      Regarding the "official" governing document - 27 CFR 5.22(b). it only states:

                       (1)(i) "Bourbon whisky", "rye whisky", "wheat whisky", "malt whisky", or "rye malt whisky" is whisky produced at not exceeding 160° proof from a fermented mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat, malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively, and stored at not more than 125° proof in charred new oak containers; and also includes mixtures of such whiskies of the same type. 

                      http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=21224b7c634d83e0fa329bfd18bb85dc&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:1.0.1.1.3.3.25.2&idno=27

                      Vino es Veritas,

                      Jim aka Waldo.

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
                      >
                      > > Our Bourbons can't be distilled over 160 proof. But anyways, thanks a
                      > > bunch for the inputs.
                      > >
                      > > Vino es Veritas,
                      > >
                      > > Jim aka Waldo.
                      >
                      >
                      > The way I understand it is that the ABV of the run (everything mixed, heads to tails) cant be over 80%. There is an old post from Pint on the subject. April/May 08. I asked a similar question.
                      >
                      > Mason
                      >

                    • abbababbaccc
                      Actually I just did a sour corn mash few weeks ago using that technique and it turned out just fine. You can have a dram to test if you pop by ;) The thing is
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
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                        Actually I just did a sour corn mash few weeks ago using that technique and it turned out just fine. You can have a dram to test if you pop by ;)

                        The thing is that high ABV is not stripping off anything, rather concentrating different congeners. As described by Ian Smiley you can make perfectly good whisky with high ABV if you pay attention to details. The procedure is somewhat different from a potstill but it gives you much more hearts and less feints.

                        Slainte, Riku

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > But I still would not try distilling my sour corn mash at the 94 to 95%
                        > ABV levels that Riku mentioned.
                        >
                        >
                      • jamesonbeam1
                        OOOPS, Sorry Riku, didn t mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot still I
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
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                          OOOPS,

                          Sorry Riku,  didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot still I have...  Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar Southerner  simple pot stiller too...:)

                          Vino es Veritas,

                          Jim aka Waldo.  (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)


                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Actually I just did a sour corn mash few weeks ago using that technique and it turned out just fine. You can have a dram to test if you pop by ;)
                          >
                          > The thing is that high ABV is not stripping off anything, rather concentrating different congeners. As described by Ian Smiley you can make perfectly good whisky with high ABV if you pay attention to details. The procedure is somewhat different from a potstill but it gives you much more hearts and less feints.
                          >
                          > Slainte, Riku
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > But I still would not try distilling my sour corn mash at the 94 to 95%
                          > > ABV levels that Riku mentioned.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >

                        • abbababbaccc
                          No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 3, 2009
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                            No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.

                            Slainte, Riku

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > OOOPS,
                            >
                            > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
                            > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
                            > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
                            > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
                            >
                            > Vino es Veritas,
                            >
                            > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • waljaco
                            According to the Compleat Distiller, if you have a metre column filled with scrubbers, and you control the temperature, you should achieve 90%abv without a
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 4, 2009
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                              According to the Compleat Distiller, if you have a metre column filled with scrubbers, and you control the temperature, you should achieve 90%abv without a reflux condenser.
                              wal
                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                              >
                              > Slainte, Riku
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > OOOPS,
                              > >
                              > > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
                              > > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
                              > > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
                              > > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
                              > >
                              > > Vino es Veritas,
                              > >
                              > > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • gff_stwrt
                              Hi, Wal and hello folks, I think I ll try that one day with my pot still. I have two pieces of two inch copper pipe that I use alternately as a column; one of
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 4, 2009
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                                Hi, Wal and hello folks,


                                I think I'll try that one day with my pot still. I have two pieces of two inch copper pipe that I use alternately as a column; one of (say) 2/3 of a metre and the other maybe 1 1/3 metre.
                                I can join them with slip fittings so that would be at least 2 metres and I think there is more of that sized pipe...

                                And I already have a couple of pounds of the good Amphora mesh.

                                So when I start some sugar washes again instead of fooling around trying to get good fruit brandy......

                                The Baker
                                (No I was not drunk in my last post when I mis-spelled my 'nom de plume'.!) G.


                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > According to the Compleat Distiller, if you have a metre column filled with scrubbers, and you control the temperature, you should achieve 90%abv without a reflux condenser.
                                > wal
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                                > >
                                > > Slainte, Riku
                                > >
                                > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > OOOPS,
                                > > >
                                > > > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
                                > > > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
                                > > > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
                                > > > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
                                > > >
                                > > > Vino es Veritas,
                                > > >
                                > > > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • jeandenis308
                                I can add to this that it does work, although it whas with a presure cooker and a cornflakes mash. the lid could hold 3 liters and the pipe sticked out about 3
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 5, 2009
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                                  I can add to this that it does work, although it whas with a presure cooker and a cornflakes mash. the lid could hold 3 liters and the pipe sticked out about 3 inches, wich whas only 10 ore 12 inches tall and the lower part whas filled up to 4 inch with scrubbers.

                                  i could turn the heat so low that it just barely boiled and got results to 93 % with a 12% mash in it.

                                  Now, i dont think it would be the reflux that made it so high because there whas still a lot of flavor, but sooner the really slow boil.
                                  ( took me a whole day for just a bottle )
                                  the scrubbers helped pre cool the the steam and later on a'd put a little wind blower on top of it for a bit more reflux.
                                  It did work and had fine whiskey from it.

                                  but i now stepped up and got a new system.
                                  wich btw works almost the same.
                                  (if you can get your hand on the book The complete Distiller it will show the fractioning still wich we better know as a reflux still)

                                  so with very little heat and muchos patience it will work.
                                  but then later you want something more efficient cause a whole day heat on it will eventually cost you more the the worth of it.
                                  then better rerun it twice ore trippled

                                  Greets

                                  JD

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                                  >
                                  > Slainte, Riku
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > OOOPS,
                                  > >
                                  > > Sorry Riku, didn't mean it was wrong, just really ment to say - there
                                  > > aint no way I could distill it up to that 94-95% ABV with the little pot
                                  > > still I have... Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar
                                  > > Southerner simple pot stiller too... [:)]
                                  > >
                                  > > Vino es Veritas,
                                  > >
                                  > > Jim aka Waldo. (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • jamesonbeam1
                                  Beaucoup Thanks Riku, Wal and JD, Have a couple of feet of 1 copper in the basement will try it with that. I tried the scrubbers in my 1/2 riser a year or
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 5, 2009
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                                    Beaucoup Thanks Riku, Wal and JD,

                                    Have a couple of feet of 1" copper in the basement will try it with
                                    that. I tried the scrubbers in my 1/2" riser a year or so back and did
                                    in fact get about a 10% or so ABV increase.

                                    Vino es Veritas,

                                    Jim aka Waldo.


                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jeandenis308" <jeandenis308@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I can add to this that it does work, although it whas with a presure
                                    cooker and a cornflakes mash. the lid could hold 3 liters and the pipe
                                    sticked out about 3 inches, wich whas only 10 ore 12 inches tall and the
                                    lower part whas filled up to 4 inch with scrubbers.
                                    >
                                    > i could turn the heat so low that it just barely boiled and got
                                    results to 93 % with a 12% mash in it.
                                    >
                                    > Greets
                                    >
                                    > JD
                                    >
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" abbababbaccc@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > No worries mate. But this actually leads to a question, if you have
                                    a vertical pipe in your potstill (like most seem to have) - why not
                                    stuck few scrubbers there and install maybe a small reflux condenser or
                                    have a fan blowing to the pipe. In practise that would get you higher
                                    ABV and thus get you more hearts.
                                    > >
                                    > > Slainte, Riku
                                  • Robert Hubble
                                    Jameson, In the land of clear falling waters and majestic trees to the sky, my people have a wise old saying: My ass! Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller To:
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 5, 2009
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                                      Jameson,

                                      In the land of clear falling waters and majestic trees to the sky, my people have a wise old saying: "My ass!"

                                      Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




                                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: jamesonbeam1@...
                                      Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:31:08 +0000
                                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Internal Reflux in a Pot Still - Need Help

                                       

                                      ----snip----

                                      Just like ZB, I is just another one of them thar Southerner  simple pot stiller too...:) Vino es Veritas,
                                      Jim aka Waldo.  (but would love to try that there dram - or 2 or 3....)
                                      ----snip----


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