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Re: compost powered stripper

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  • nonamedistiller
    ... Yes sir.. that should do it.. We too were playing around with compost piles, Trying to use them for a source of heat. We thought about doing like many
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 8, 2009
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello all,
      > I have a lot of compost. A couple of cubic metres at least. I was checking the temperature the other day and it is 65 C (150 F). Thats pretty hot. I think it would be hot enough to distill like the Amazing still does. Low temperature over a extended period of time. If you used a air cooled condesor it would work. (I think). What do you think?
      > Cheers
      > M
      >


      Yes sir..
      that should do it..

      We too were playing around with compost piles, Trying to use them for a source of heat. We thought about doing like many people already do for their hot water heaters.. using a pipe the is coiled under the compost pile with a small pump moving the water slowly around the coils and back to the hot water heater to heat tank water..

      Then we played with the idea of adding the methane collector in the middle of the pile,. Using the heat of the compost pile to run the methane producer. (which is really nothing more than a sealed 55 gallon drum.. pipeing that to a bladder (something like a big ballon) then using the methane as A Natrual gas source for heat..

      Problems was. It's lots of work.. The compost pile it self wasn't so bad. Need nothing but a grinder for your trees and scrubs. ifin you have any woods around your place then you have plenty of stuff to use for compost. (We go through every month or so and cut the under brush of our 1/2 acre of woods and it provides plenty to work with..

      (not to metion anyone would be willing to give away their trash Clippings) Commerical or residental..

      The only issues I have with this system. Was. The heat transfer wasn't what I thought.. Even with a Amazing still. (Which I haven't ever had or want.:) I don't see the temps doing what they needed..
      We couldn't ever get the water reserve that we had over 145 F.. only had 20 gallon reserve at that..

      This was the reason why I thought that we needed to add the methane collector in the middle of the compost pile. In this way I could produce N G to heat with. Instead of using power or Wood fire.

      meanwhile The compost heat wasn't a total waste..
      A few different things one could do with that..
      1: Use it to heat your hot water tank. 145F isn't bad Right...
      2: Run it into your floor heating system.. Some people have the pipes in the floor of their bathroom or kitchens with hot water running in them for heat.. (Use this instead of electric heated water..)

      3: This one was my Favorite, But it was a strech. (not sure how or if this would work. But it was idea none the less.
      Use the 150 degree water For your strike water.. Since the temps for converting Grains are 148-155 F.. This would be perfect since the water never getts hotter.. (although the reason I never moved on this one was due to the fact that I have to heat my strike water to 175 ish to allow for the grains. Once added the temp quickly drops to 152 or so..

      I'm sure there is many other things that can be done. If anyone has any other ideas please post them.. I'm sitting on a compost pile right now that isn't doing anything but collecting more compost.

      Thanks for the topic. "Nameless"
    • abbababbaccc
      Hmm, what obvious comments? Better versions of Amazing still work quite well for what they are intended for (slow pot still) and the operating principle is
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 8, 2009
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        Hmm, what obvious comments? Better versions of Amazing still work quite well for what they are intended for (slow pot still) and the operating principle is indeed quite interesting. If you are worried about plastics you could just as well build one from copper or stainless steel.

        And to the original question, build a "bucket on top of the bucket" type amazing still. The lower bucket should go into the compost while the upper bucket is above the compost. Another option would be the Norwegian variant. Here are some photos to inspire you:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/files/rkr/

        As a bonus this would be a very good setup for stripping on grains mashes and the spent mash could then be added to the compost.

        Slainte, Riku


        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@...> wrote:
        >
        > Apart from the obvious comments you will recieve for mentioning the amazing still, this has got to be the most innovative power source I have come across lol ... heat is heat, should work
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello all,
        > > I have a lot of compost. A couple of cubic metres at least. I was checking the temperature the other day and it is 65 C (150 F). Thats pretty hot. I think it would be hot enough to distill like the Amazing still does. Low temperature over a extended period of time. If you used a air cooled condesor it would work. (I think). What do you think?
        > > Cheers
        > > M
        > >
        >
      • tykjaw
        hi riku ah yes, you re the one person with an open mind and the courage to speak it, greetings to be honest I have no hang ups whatsoever about suitable
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 8, 2009
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          hi riku

          ah yes, you're the one person with an open mind and the courage to speak it, greetings

          to be honest I have no hang ups whatsoever about suitable plastics (pet, polpropylene and ptfe) but the usual response to any such suggestions is 'get thee behind me satan'

          Indeed my first apparatus was built with information from your spiral still and simple low cost stills in harry's alcohol library

          I ran a polypropylene boiler with 1.2m packed polypropylene column with a damp sock around the top 600 mm and a column fan to increase evaporation for reflux, in fact the scrubbers were polypropylene too, the only copper being the liebig condenser tube, I had output at 93% max and an average run of 89% from a 40% charge with no signs of plastic tastes or solvent attack. The only problem I found was of mechanical stability, not bad for a next to nothing assembly

          Suppose I better get ready for some flak myself now lol

          cheers riku
          tyk


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hmm, what obvious comments? Better versions of Amazing still work quite well for what they are intended for (slow pot still) and the operating principle is indeed quite interesting. If you are worried about plastics you could just as well build one from copper or stainless steel.
          >
          > And to the original question, build a "bucket on top of the bucket" type amazing still. The lower bucket should go into the compost while the upper bucket is above the compost. Another option would be the Norwegian variant. Here are some photos to inspire you:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/new_distillers/files/rkr/
          >
          > As a bonus this would be a very good setup for stripping on grains mashes and the spent mash could then be added to the compost.
          >
          > Slainte, Riku
          >
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Apart from the obvious comments you will recieve for mentioning the amazing still, this has got to be the most innovative power source I have come across lol ... heat is heat, should work
          > >
          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello all,
          > > > I have a lot of compost. A couple of cubic metres at least. I was checking the temperature the other day and it is 65 C (150 F). Thats pretty hot. I think it would be hot enough to distill like the Amazing still does. Low temperature over a extended period of time. If you used a air cooled condesor it would work. (I think). What do you think?
          > > > Cheers
          > > > M
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • abbababbaccc
          Yes, we do have quite a lot of people sharing their opinions as facts. Unfortunately they are often just opinions without any experimenting or research to back
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 8, 2009
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            Yes, we do have quite a lot of people sharing their opinions as facts. Unfortunately they are often just opinions without any experimenting or research to back them up.

            I have quite extensive experience with PP boilers and they work well. I also did a 100 hour test with PP column and that didn't go quite as well, it deformed at the bottom. I know there are different polypropylene plastics there so that's probably what came into play here. Still, I wouldn't recommend PP for a column material.

            Slainte, Riku


            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@...> wrote:
            >
            > hi riku
            >
            > ah yes, you're the one person with an open mind and the courage to speak it, greetings
            >
            > to be honest I have no hang ups whatsoever about suitable plastics (pet, polpropylene and ptfe) but the usual response to any such suggestions is 'get thee behind me satan'
            >
            > Indeed my first apparatus was built with information from your spiral still and simple low cost stills in harry's alcohol library
            >
            > I ran a polypropylene boiler with 1.2m packed polypropylene column with a damp sock around the top 600 mm and a column fan to increase evaporation for reflux, in fact the scrubbers were polypropylene too, the only copper being the liebig condenser tube, I had output at 93% max and an average run of 89% from a 40% charge with no signs of plastic tastes or solvent attack. The only problem I found was of mechanical stability, not bad for a next to nothing assembly
            >
            > Suppose I better get ready for some flak myself now lol
            >
            > cheers riku
            > tyk
            >
            >
          • tykjaw
            it was probably the weld riku, as you say there are various grades and its likely that the materials must be identical for a successful joint, I used a push
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 8, 2009
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              it was probably the weld riku, as you say there are various grades and its likely that the materials must be identical for a successful joint, I used a push fit tank connector and everything seemed sound

              I no longer use the column but I still have it and it served its purpose. I would not actively recommend it either but from personal experience I found it acceptable, although I must admit I did not run it anywhere near 100 hours

              cheers
              tyk

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yes, we do have quite a lot of people sharing their opinions as facts. Unfortunately they are often just opinions without any experimenting or research to back them up.
              >
              > I have quite extensive experience with PP boilers and they work well. I also did a 100 hour test with PP column and that didn't go quite as well, it deformed at the bottom. I know there are different polypropylene plastics there so that's probably what came into play here. Still, I wouldn't recommend PP for a column material.
              >
              > Slainte, Riku
              >
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@> wrote:
              > >
              > > hi riku
              > >
              > > ah yes, you're the one person with an open mind and the courage to speak it, greetings
              > >
              > > to be honest I have no hang ups whatsoever about suitable plastics (pet, polpropylene and ptfe) but the usual response to any such suggestions is 'get thee behind me satan'
              > >
              > > Indeed my first apparatus was built with information from your spiral still and simple low cost stills in harry's alcohol library
              > >
              > > I ran a polypropylene boiler with 1.2m packed polypropylene column with a damp sock around the top 600 mm and a column fan to increase evaporation for reflux, in fact the scrubbers were polypropylene too, the only copper being the liebig condenser tube, I had output at 93% max and an average run of 89% from a 40% charge with no signs of plastic tastes or solvent attack. The only problem I found was of mechanical stability, not bad for a next to nothing assembly
              > >
              > > Suppose I better get ready for some flak myself now lol
              > >
              > > cheers riku
              > > tyk
              > >
              > >
              >
            • abbababbaccc
              It was the hole bottom of the column that got wrinkled. This was a 40mm white polypropylene wastepipe and I noticed the deformation after I took the still
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 9, 2009
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                It was the hole bottom of the column that got wrinkled. This was a 40mm white polypropylene wastepipe and I noticed the deformation after I took the still apart after 4+ days of running (spiral still).

                Several years ago we had a guy here in the group using black PP irrigation pipe as a column and he claimed it to work well. If I'm not mistaken he even sold those stills.

                For what it's worth I'd use metal for a column. It's not only ethanol tolerance that's needed but also tolerance against all those higher boiling point alcohols that form an azeotrope in the lower parts of the column. In the boiler the ABV is low so that's not a problem, but in the column we get high concentrations.

                Slainte, Riku

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@...> wrote:
                >
                > it was probably the weld riku, as you say there are various grades and its likely that the materials must be identical for a successful joint, I used a push fit tank connector and everything seemed sound
                >
                > I no longer use the column but I still have it and it served its purpose. I would not actively recommend it either but from personal experience I found it acceptable, although I must admit I did not run it anywhere near 100 hours
                >
                > cheers
                > tyk
                >
                >
              • tykjaw
                yes I seem to recall that one, had a vm head or an optional offset lm head mine was 50mm grey waste and no signs of deformity or discoloration whatsoever but
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 9, 2009
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                  yes I seem to recall that one, had a vm head or an optional offset lm head

                  mine was 50mm grey waste and no signs of deformity or discoloration whatsoever but it was replaced with copper as soon as possible

                  boiler still in use, well stained with tomato paste lol, although liquid in boiler is low it has still got high abv vapour on a spirit run ~80%

                  however we seem to have gone completely off topic, was originally just pointing out that I dont have plasticphobia lol

                  cheers
                  tyk

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > It was the hole bottom of the column that got wrinkled. This was a 40mm white polypropylene wastepipe and I noticed the deformation after I took the still apart after 4+ days of running (spiral still).
                  >
                  > Several years ago we had a guy here in the group using black PP irrigation pipe as a column and he claimed it to work well. If I'm not mistaken he even sold those stills.
                  >
                  > For what it's worth I'd use metal for a column. It's not only ethanol tolerance that's needed but also tolerance against all those higher boiling point alcohols that form an azeotrope in the lower parts of the column. In the boiler the ABV is low so that's not a problem, but in the column we get high concentrations.
                  >
                  > Slainte, Riku
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > it was probably the weld riku, as you say there are various grades and its likely that the materials must be identical for a successful joint, I used a push fit tank connector and everything seemed sound
                  > >
                  > > I no longer use the column but I still have it and it served its purpose. I would not actively recommend it either but from personal experience I found it acceptable, although I must admit I did not run it anywhere near 100 hours
                  > >
                  > > cheers
                  > > tyk
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • mstehelin
                  What was the problem with the methane collection? You say too much work? What you are creating there is officially called a bio-digester. It uses anaerobic
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 9, 2009
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                    What was the problem with the methane collection? You say too much work? What you are creating there is officially called a bio-digester. It uses anaerobic bacteria instead of aerobic.
                    Aerobic is faster and no methane. Anaerobic slow but methane produced.
                    Here is a awesome site that discuses such things.
                    http://biorealis.com/wwwroot/digester_revised.html
                    You might have to root around the site a bit.....
                    I am including a piece of news from a company that liquifies everything. My guess is to make transport of material easier and shoveling.
                    As far a my comment about the amazing still. It was more about the concept behind it. I had actually envisioned a buried container with a finned pipe off of it for a air cooled condensor. I guess the double pails would work too but that might be less efficient if it is a hot day and the sun re condenses things.
                    Cheers
                    M

                    *********************************************************************
                    AGRICULTURE: Natural fertilizer startup aims to reduce global warming and holiday leftovers (12/23/2008)

                    Sara Goodman, E&E reporter

                    Some people trash their leftover fruitcake. Some regift it. One Web site even advocates blowtorching the stuff.

                    Ed Gildea wants to help save the climate with it.

                    Gildea is CEO of Massachusetts-based Converted Organics, which takes food waste and converts it into an all-natural fertilizer, using the basic idea of composting, but speeding up the process by months. Converting leftovers, he argues, not only reduces waste but also eliminates harmful chemicals and helps mitigate climate change by reducing emissions.

                    "We help nature do something that is its natural tendency," Gildea said. "We set up the ideal environment."

                    The U.S. Department of Agriculture estimates that about 25.9 million tons of the nation's food goes in the garbage every year. Most of it ends up rotting in landfills.

                    The problem is particularly challenging to areas with large urban centers, which face diminished landfill capacity and difficulty siting and operating incinerators. Organic waste alone accounts for 10 to 15 percent of the national solid waste stream.

                    Researchers and entrepreneurs have been trying to figure out how to take that waste and convert it into something useful. For example, researchers at Clemson University have discovered a method of turning rotten peaches into a biofuel (ClimateWire, Aug. 14).

                    From fruitcake to fertilizer in a week

                    But Converted Organics is the first to run a commercial-scale food waste conversion facility, Gildea said.

                    The process starts when food waste that would go to a landfill is directed instead to the company's plant in California. All big pieces of inorganic materials are taken out, and the remaining waste is poured into a large device called a hydro-pulper. There, the waste is pulverized and liquid is added, and then the mixture is sent to another device called a macerator in which it is agitated.

                    The remaining inorganic materials are then separated out, with the lighter-weight material floating to the top and heavier inorganic material dropping to the bottom.

                    Once the remaining inorganic materials are removed, the waste is pumped to a final device called a digester, in which air and naturally occurring bacteria are added. The air activates the bacteria, which eat the waste. When the bacteria are finished, the air is turned off, and the resulting material, called cake, is processed into two forms of fertilizer: liquid and solid.

                    It takes between six and nine days from the time waste is delivered to the facility until it is a bag of fertilizer. In comparison, composting takes anywhere from six to 12 months, Gildea said.

                    By recycling the waste instead of sending it to landfills, he noted, the process reduces emissions, because decaying waste releases methane into the air, while recycling it eliminates that gas. Greenhouse gases are also reduced because the process involves the use of fewer chemical products that produce emissions in the manufacturing stage.

                    So far, the biggest market for the company is in California with farmers, who use the fertilizer because it increases their yield. The makeup improves the microbial activity of the soil, which results in a healthier plant that's better able to fight disease, Gildea said.

                    Interest growing from consumers, industry

                    The company is looking to expand into retail sometime next year because of the growing interest individual consumers have in using non-chemical products to ensure that small children and pets don't ingest toxins, he said.

                    The fertilizers generally sell for about $710 a ton on average, Gildea said, adding that some markets have higher and others have lower prices.

                    Being the first with a new technology presents challenges for the company as it tries to convince investors that the product works and is profitable, Gildea said.

                    "The biggest challenge is no one's done it," he said. "We're the first ones to build a commercial-scale food waste recycling facility. With a start-up business, you have to convince people you can do it. Those challenges are magnified if you're also the first doing it."

                    But so far, people seem to be interested. The company has its main facility in California and another in New Jersey, and is developing a third in Rhode Island. The California plant has about 40 purchasers of the product. In addition, the company sells to retail outlets such as Home Depot and to golf courses.

                    And while people's motives for wanting an all-natural fertilizer differ, Gildea is banking on his product offering something for everyone.

                    "Consumers are very much more attuned to issue of using sustainable practices and how waste is disposed, and those in the turf industry are also more sensitive," Gildea said. "In the agriculture industry, they're typically attracted to what we do because we help them increase their yield and make more money."




                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "nonamedistiller" <nonamedistiller@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello all,
                    > > I have a lot of compost. A couple of cubic metres at least. I was checking the temperature the other day and it is 65 C (150 F). Thats pretty hot. I think it would be hot enough to distill like the Amazing still does. Low temperature over a extended period of time. If you used a air cooled condesor it would work. (I think). What do you think?
                    > > Cheers
                    > > M
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yes sir..
                    > that should do it..
                    >
                    > We too were playing around with compost piles, Trying to use them for a source of heat. We thought about doing like many people already do for their hot water heaters.. using a pipe the is coiled under the compost pile with a small pump moving the water slowly around the coils and back to the hot water heater to heat tank water..
                    >
                    > Then we played with the idea of adding the methane collector in the middle of the pile,. Using the heat of the compost pile to run the methane producer. (which is really nothing more than a sealed 55 gallon drum.. pipeing that to a bladder (something like a big ballon) then using the methane as A Natrual gas source for heat..
                    >
                    > Problems was. It's lots of work.. The compost pile it self wasn't so bad. Need nothing but a grinder for your trees and scrubs. ifin you have any woods around your place then you have plenty of stuff to use for compost. (We go through every month or so and cut the under brush of our 1/2 acre of woods and it provides plenty to work with..
                    >
                    > (not to metion anyone would be willing to give away their trash Clippings) Commerical or residental..
                    >
                    > The only issues I have with this system. Was. The heat transfer wasn't what I thought.. Even with a Amazing still. (Which I haven't ever had or want.:) I don't see the temps doing what they needed..
                    > We couldn't ever get the water reserve that we had over 145 F.. only had 20 gallon reserve at that..
                    >
                    > This was the reason why I thought that we needed to add the methane collector in the middle of the compost pile. In this way I could produce N G to heat with. Instead of using power or Wood fire.
                    >
                    > meanwhile The compost heat wasn't a total waste..
                    > A few different things one could do with that..
                    > 1: Use it to heat your hot water tank. 145F isn't bad Right...
                    > 2: Run it into your floor heating system.. Some people have the pipes in the floor of their bathroom or kitchens with hot water running in them for heat.. (Use this instead of electric heated water..)
                    >
                    > 3: This one was my Favorite, But it was a strech. (not sure how or if this would work. But it was idea none the less.
                    > Use the 150 degree water For your strike water.. Since the temps for converting Grains are 148-155 F.. This would be perfect since the water never getts hotter.. (although the reason I never moved on this one was due to the fact that I have to heat my strike water to 175 ish to allow for the grains. Once added the temp quickly drops to 152 or so..
                    >
                    > I'm sure there is many other things that can be done. If anyone has any other ideas please post them.. I'm sitting on a compost pile right now that isn't doing anything but collecting more compost.
                    >
                    > Thanks for the topic. "Nameless"
                    >
                  • abbababbaccc
                    Well, I see you are having trouble with the concept since you seem to have trouble understanding it. With low temperature evaporation principle the best way is
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 9, 2009
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                      Well, I see you are having trouble with the concept since you seem to have trouble understanding it.

                      With low temperature evaporation principle the best way is to circulate air. As no boiling happens the amount of air inside does not change (much). What we do is to heat up the air and thus saturate it with ethanol vapor (same things as saturate with water - i.e. higher humidity), then circulate it to a cooler place where ethanol gets condensed as the air cools down. The cooler air returns to the hot chamber and get heated up and saturated again and rises back to the condenser part.

                      All this happens in a closed environment, although removing the condensate can be easily arranged. Then there's forced air induction which some say works well. I've done some experimentation and had poor results with that.

                      But let's face it, a bucket (be it plastic or stainless) and a 2m piece of 100mm aluminium stretch pipe is extremely easy to set up. Just have some shade for the alupipe and you are good to go.

                      Slainte, Riku

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >As far a my comment about the amazing still. It was more about the concept behind it. I had actually envisioned a buried container with a finned pipe off of it for a air cooled condensor. I guess the double pails would work too but that might be less efficient if it is a hot day and the sun re condenses things.
                      > Cheers
                      > M
                      >
                      >
                    • jamesonbeam1
                      Yes M, This is really a fantastic approach to stripping runs and free energy. You should have posted this along with the June s thread - about solar energy
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 9, 2009
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                        Yes M,

                        This is really a fantastic approach to stripping runs and free energy.  You should have posted this along with the June's thread - about solar energy which mentioned "the Water Cone" that collects energy from the sun.  Check it out at: http://www.watercone.com/product.html  Also read up on our discussions in theRe: Power... Solar Primary Distillation thread from May and  last month.  See Msg: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/45258 for starters.

                        Incorporating the 2 ideas would be a great synergistic idea.  Assuming your compost pile is in sunlight,  your idea along with either Riku's design or the Water Cone design, (even the Amazing still design - if its clear enough) could produce heat from not only the sun on top, but from your compost heap on the Bottom.  (dont know abou the air-cooled condenser though - might just want to stick to the evaporation collection option)..

                        What a great synergistically free energy supply for low ABV stripping runs!!!

                        Vino es Veritas,

                        Jim aka Waldo.


                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Apart from the obvious comments you will recieve for mentioning the amazing still, this has got to be the most innovative power source I have come across lol ... heat is heat, should work
                        >
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" mstehelin@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello all,
                        > > I have a lot of compost. A couple of cubic metres at least. I was checking the temperature the other day and it is 65 C (150 F). Thats pretty hot. I think it would be hot enough to distill like the Amazing still does. Low temperature over a extended period of time. If you used a air cooled condesor it would work. (I think). What do you think?
                        > > Cheers
                        > > M
                        > >
                        >

                      • mstehelin
                        Coool! Thanks for the extra information.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
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                          Coool! Thanks for the extra information.


                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Well, I see you are having trouble with the concept since you seem to have trouble understanding it.
                          >
                          > With low temperature evaporation principle the best way is to circulate air. As no boiling happens the amount of air inside does not change (much). What we do is to heat up the air and thus saturate it with ethanol vapor (same things as saturate with water - i.e. higher humidity), then circulate it to a cooler place where ethanol gets condensed as the air cools down. The cooler air returns to the hot chamber and get heated up and saturated again and rises back to the condenser part.
                          >
                          > All this happens in a closed environment, although removing the condensate can be easily arranged. Then there's forced air induction which some say works well. I've done some experimentation and had poor results with that.
                          >
                          > But let's face it, a bucket (be it plastic or stainless) and a 2m piece of 100mm aluminium stretch pipe is extremely easy to set up. Just have some shade for the alupipe and you are good to go.
                          >
                          > Slainte, Riku
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >As far a my comment about the amazing still. It was more about the concept behind it. I had actually envisioned a buried container with a finned pipe off of it for a air cooled condensor. I guess the double pails would work too but that might be less efficient if it is a hot day and the sun re condenses things.
                          > > Cheers
                          > > M
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • mstehelin
                          Wow. That would work. And you would not have to completely bury the main boiler , only about 75%. The cone would be more of a condenser and less of a boiler
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
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                            Wow.
                            That would work.
                            And you would not have to completely bury the main "boiler", only about 75%. The cone would be more of a condenser and less of a boiler because the liquid would be hidden from direct sunlight.(in my humble opinion) A simple and elegant condenser. You could partially bury a 50 gallon (200 liter) barrel and have a take-off line to a holding jug. Come back in a month and see whats been produced.
                            M

                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Yes M,
                            >
                            > This is really a fantastic approach to stripping runs and free energy.
                            > You should have posted this along with the June's thread - about solar
                            > energy which mentioned "the Water Cone" that collects energy from the
                            > sun. Check it out at: http://www.watercone.com/product.html
                            > <http://www.watercone.com/product.html> Also read up on our
                            > discussions in the Re: Power... Solar Primary Distillation
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/45328> thread from
                            > May and last month. See Msg:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/45258
                            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/45258> for starters.
                            >
                            > Incorporating the 2 ideas would be a great synergistic idea. Assuming
                            > your compost pile is in sunlight, your idea along with either Riku's
                            > design or the Water Cone design, (even the Amazing still design - if its
                            > clear enough) could produce heat from not only the sun on top, but from
                            > your compost heap on the Bottom. (dont know abou the air-cooled
                            > condenser though - might just want to stick to the evaporation
                            > collection option)..
                            >
                            > What a great synergistically free energy supply for low ABV stripping
                            > runs!!!
                            >
                            > Vino es Veritas,
                            >
                            > Jim aka Waldo.
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "tykjaw" <tykjaw@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Apart from the obvious comments you will recieve for mentioning the
                            > amazing still, this has got to be the most innovative power source I
                            > have come across lol ... heat is heat, should work
                            > >
                            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" mstehelin@ wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello all,
                            > > > I have a lot of compost. A couple of cubic metres at least. I was
                            > checking the temperature the other day and it is 65 C (150 F). Thats
                            > pretty hot. I think it would be hot enough to distill like the Amazing
                            > still does. Low temperature over a extended period of time. If you used
                            > a air cooled condesor it would work. (I think). What do you think?
                            > > > Cheers
                            > > > M
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • jamesonbeam1
                            You got it M [:)] - what a simple, elegant soulution to free energy source(s) for a Stripping still - you might want to patent it LOL. Really try it out
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 10, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment

                              You got it M :) - what a simple, elegant soulution to  free energy source(s)  for a Stripping still - you might want to patent it LOL.   Really try it out and let us know.

                              Vino es Veritas,

                              Jim aka Waldo.


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Wow.
                              > That would work.
                              > And you would not have to completely bury the main "boiler", only about 75%. The cone would be more of a condenser and less of a boiler because the liquid would be hidden from direct sunlight.(in my humble opinion) A simple and elegant condenser. You could partially bury a 50 gallon (200 liter) barrel and have a take-off line to a holding jug. Come back in a month and see whats been produced.
                              > M
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" jamesonbeam1@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Yes M,
                              > >
                              > > This is really a fantastic approach to stripping runs and free energy.
                              > > You should have posted this along with the June's thread - about solar
                              > > energy which mentioned "the Water Cone" that collects energy from the
                              > > sun. Check it out at: http://www.watercone.com/product.html
                              > > <http://www.watercone.com/product.html> Also read up on our
                              > > discussions in the Re: Power... Solar Primary Distillation
                              > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/45328> thread from
                              > > May and last month. See Msg:
                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/45258
                              > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/message/45258> for starters.
                              > >
                              > > Incorporating the 2 ideas would be a great synergistic idea. Assuming
                              > > your compost pile is in sunlight, your idea along with either Riku's
                              > > design or the Water Cone design, (even the Amazing still design - if its
                              > > clear enough) could produce heat from not only the sun on top, but from
                              > > your compost heap on the Bottom. (dont know abou the air-cooled
                              > > condenser though - might just want to stick to the evaporation
                              > > collection option)..
                              > >
                              > > What a great synergistically free energy supply for low ABV stripping
                              > > runs!!!
                              > >
                              > > Vino es Veritas,
                              > >
                              > > Jim aka Waldo.
                              > >
                              > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" mstehelin@ wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Hello all,
                              > > > > I have a lot of compost. A couple of cubic metres at least. I was
                              > > checking the temperature the other day and it is 65 C (150 F). Thats
                              > > pretty hot. I think it would be hot enough to distill like the Amazing
                              > > still does. Low temperature over a extended period of time. If you used
                              > > a air cooled condesor it would work. (I think). What do you think?
                              > > > > Cheers
                              > > > > M

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