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Re: Steam Mashing (Was: The Art of Distilling Whiskey and Other Spirits)

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  • Sherman
    I understand the question quite well and this is a question I ask others regularly. It mostly comes in the terms of Can you show me? I would not volunteer to
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 7, 2009
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      I understand the question quite well and this is a question I ask others regularly. It mostly comes in the terms of "Can you show me?"
      I would not volunteer to demonstrate a process that I have not worn out. I hate being made to look stupid because of a unplanned gotcha.

      I have been steam mashing for more than ten years. I developed a steam masher that works on as little as 20 L at a time for my own personal use. My experience with syrup making and mashing barley for making thickened malt extract syrup, since 1980 has helped to build a foundation of similar technologies that lends well to this art.

      I have never encountered a difficulty with denaturing enzymes using steam injection. My worst issue was to work out how to get the grain in the hot water without making dough balls and how much grain to start with being the water from the steam accumulates in the tun. Other issues are how to get better conversion with less protein bonding the starch and more pleasant aromas and more mouth feel from the finished spirit.
      I am always happy to answer any questions and show picture of the processes that I have accomplish in making practical. I not one to discuss discuss practices at a theoretical level unless I am experimenting and then I will be clear when proposing solutions.

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Sherman <pintoshine@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > 3. Steam injection cooking
      > <snip>
      > > His vision of micro scale is mashing in a 220L polyester
      > > barrel with the top removed and a ss keg as a boiler for the
      > > steam.
      >
      > Have you any first hand time steam mashing? I know possible questions that have come up elsewhere is denaturing enzymes due to excessive heat and such things.
      > Either way, it sounds like a nifty experiment to undertake along that scale. I have a stainless milk can that I might be able to fashion into a boiler for the sake of experimentation.
      >
      > Thoughts? Ideas? Input?
      >
      > Trid
      > -mad tinker is warming up...RUN!
      >
    • Trid
      ... Been there...done that...still embarrassed... ... Can you give a quick n dirty description of the mechanics and procedure? Trid -seeing some sperimentin
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 7, 2009
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        --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Sherman <pintoshine@...> wrote:
        >
        > I understand the question quite well and this is a question
        > I ask others regularly. It mostly comes in the terms of
        > "Can you show me?"
        > I would not volunteer to demonstrate a process that I have
        > not worn out. I hate being made to look stupid because of a
        > unplanned gotcha.

        Been there...done that...still embarrassed...

        > I am always happy to answer any questions and show picture
        > of the processes that I have accomplish in making practical.
        > I not one to discuss discuss practices at a theoretical
        > level unless I am experimenting and then I will be clear
        > when proposing solutions.

        Can you give a quick 'n dirty description of the mechanics and procedure?

        Trid
        -seeing some 'sperimentin' in my future
      • Matthew Rowley
        Sherman! Sorry to have missed you at Alameda. Bill assured me that you were onsite, but it seemed we just kept passing each other. Hope you got the ticket to
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 7, 2009
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          Sherman!

          Sorry to have missed you at Alameda. Bill assured me that you were onsite, but it seemed we just kept passing each other. Hope you got the ticket to the tasting I left (though it seemed that all of us who attended has plenty enough to sample regardless).

          I haven't seen the final version of the book, but I contributed a chapter and Mike McCaw and Ian Smiley both wrote for it. We'll see what it looks like with edits. Max Watman (author of the forthcoming "Chasing the White Dog") has some in there as well as Bill Smith and Drew Faulkner from ADI.

          Glad to hear you'll be coming back West for some mashing. If you end up in Hayward, give a call or email: I'm always looking for an excuse to hit northern California.

          ~ rowley


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sherman" <pintoshine@...> wrote:
          >
          > Wal this is a huge coincidence. I was at the ADI Brany Conference, this weekend. I have been invited by Bill to come to his place and teach him and his crew Micro scale corn mashing.
          > Some of the things he said he would like to add to the information are:
          > 1. Sour Starter
          > 2. Sour steeping
          > 3. Steam injection cooking
          > 4. Fermentation on grains
          > 5. Practical Separation of the grains between fermentation and distillation.
          > 6. Starting the "Sour Mash" cycle using a combination of back set and lees.
          >
          > His vision of micro scale is mashing in a 220L polyester barrel with the top removed and a ss keg as a boiler for the steam.
          > I know there were others there, from these groups and forums whenever this discussion came up. This was my take on what Bill was specifying was the reason for the invitation and I am sure there are others that agree he want to demonstrate the highest quality micro process that could be repeated by anyone with a small investment.
          > I intend to show him my version of mashing in the Woodford Reserve Style. I checked with Chris Morris in March when I attended the Bourbon Academy that they are using injection for mashing but have eliminated injection for distilling. He confirmed that this was so. I have a picture of their piping to their cooker to confirm it for myself.
          > I am hoping this will be a value to those wanting to produce exceptional quality all grain spirits. I do believe this book is going down the "Coffee Table" style and will have lots of pictures. The lack of demonstration and visuals is where most books have fallen very short to date.
          > I am looking forward to sharing all these techniques. He stated a June time line for the mashing. I'll keep you updated.
          >
        • Zapata Vive
          Several homebrewers have done it with great success and described their results thoroughly. I ve just started dabbling. Just to point out though, that you ll
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 7, 2009
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            Several homebrewers have done it with great success and described their results thoroughly.  I've just started dabbling.  Just to point out though, that you'll want to get some stainless tube, as you want to super heat the steam, not just pipe it over straight from the boiler.  Most folks are doing this by making a coil of stainless tube which is between the flame and the pot.  From this coil the steam goes to the mash tun, either straight, or into a type of diffuser of some sort.
             
            I'll share some links and more details when I have more time, but it is a fascinating subject I'd like to explore further and perfect so I'd love more details.
             
            (insert disclosure and safety warnings galore)
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Trid
            Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 3:40 PM
            Subject: [Distillers] Steam Mashing (Was: The Art of Distilling Whiskey and Other Spirits)


            --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Sherman <pintoshine@artisan- distiller. org> wrote:
            >
            > 3. Steam injection cooking
            <snip>
            > His vision of micro scale is mashing in a 220L polyester
            > barrel with the top removed and a ss keg as a boiler for the
            > steam.

            Have you any first hand time steam mashing? I know possible questions that have come up elsewhere is denaturing enzymes due to excessive heat and such things.
            Either way, it sounds like a nifty experiment to undertake along that scale. I have a stainless milk can that I might be able to fashion into a boiler for the sake of experimentation.

            Thoughts? Ideas? Input?

            Trid
            -mad tinker is warming up...RUN!

          • Trid
            ... Several homebrewers have done it with great success and described their results thoroughly. I ve just started dabbling. Just to point out though, that
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 7, 2009
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              --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Zapata Vive <zapatavive@...> wrote:
              Several homebrewers have done it with great success
              and described their results thoroughly. I've just started dabbling.
              Just to point out though, that you'll want to get some stainless tube, as you
              want to super heat the steam, not just pipe it over straight from the
              boiler. Most folks are doing this by making a coil of stainless tube which
              is between the flame and the pot. From this coil the steam goes to the
              mash tun, either straight, or into a type of diffuser of some sort.

              I'll share some links and more details when I have
              more time, but it is a fascinating subject I'd like to explore further and
              perfect so I'd love more details.

              ==================

              Right nifty, thanks :)
              In the mean time, I'll poke around the intarwebs and see what I can turn up. I have an abundance of copper and no stainless on hand so I might give that a try for the superheat (unless there's compelling evidence to NOT use copper).

              Trid
              -crap...rather be doing this than the "day job"
            • Harry
              ... turn up. I have an abundance of copper and no stainless on hand so I might give that a try for the superheat (unless there s compelling evidence to NOT
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 7, 2009
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                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
                > Right nifty, thanks :)
                > In the mean time, I'll poke around the intarwebs and see what I can turn up.  I have an abundance of copper and no stainless on hand so I might give that a try for the superheat (unless there's compelling evidence to NOT use copper).
                >
                > Trid
                > -crap...rather be doing this than the "day job"
                >


                You want steam generators?

                http://www.nature-helps.com/Distillation/essentie/production/EN/alembiceng.html

                Slainte!
                regards Harry

              • Zapata Vive
                Well you will be heating the steam pipe pretty hot, and although the last thing you want is any kind of over pressure situation, I personally wouldn t use
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 9, 2009
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                  Well you will be heating the steam pipe pretty hot, and although the last thing you want is any kind of over pressure situation, I personally wouldn't use copper because the heat is bound to anneal and thus weaken it.  Note that there will be some pressure, the pressure required to bubble through your mash.  But I'd rather control the pressure with a safety release than guessing that the annealed copper will hold.  I think stainless actually gets stronger when heated, doesn't it?
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Trid
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 6:36 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Steam Mashing (Was: The Art of Distilling Whiskey and Other Spirits)


                  --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Zapata Vive <zapatavive@suddenli nk.net> wrote:
                  Several homebrewers have done it with great success
                  and described their results thoroughly. I've just started dabbling.
                  Just to point out though, that you'll want to get some stainless tube, as you
                  want to super heat the steam, not just pipe it over straight from the
                  boiler. Most folks are doing this by making a coil of stainless tube which
                  is between the flame and the pot. From this coil the steam goes to the
                  mash tun, either straight, or into a type of diffuser of some sort.

                  I'll share some links and more details when I have
                  more time, but it is a fascinating subject I'd like to explore further and
                  perfect so I'd love more details.

                  ============ ======

                  Right nifty, thanks :)
                  In the mean time, I'll poke around the intarwebs and see what I can turn up. I have an abundance of copper and no stainless on hand so I might give that a try for the superheat (unless there's compelling evidence to NOT use copper).

                  Trid
                  -crap...rather be doing this than the "day job"

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