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Re: A Rum Do

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  • gff_stwrt
    Hi, Tony, hi folks, Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of the space? If it wasn t something for your own consumption in the
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 3, 2009
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      Hi, Tony, hi folks,

      Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of
      the space?
      If it wasn't something for your own consumption in the boiler you
      could use a couple of bricks. (Actually there are such things as
      glass bricks which COULD be okay....)
      It's possible your scrap yard has some very heavy stainless bar and
      could cut you off a couple of bits.

      Or, a simple one, these are frequently used in condensers or
      sometimes (just a few) in boilers to 'break up the bubbles' or
      something like that; throw in a heap of marbles, half a gallon?
      And that would work fine even if your access hole is small.

      Regards,

      The Baker

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes"
      <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments.
      >
      > It doesn't look as if I'm doing much wrong though stripping down to
      > 10%ABV is an important development. Distilling the spirit may be a
      > problem due to the electric element in the boiler being a gallon or
      so
      > up.

      snip

      > Tony
    • rye_junkie1
      ... I use Marbles. For a strip run They arent necessary as I know that there will be at least a gallon (what it takes to cover my elements)left in the boiler.
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 3, 2009
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Tony, hi folks,
        >
        > Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of
        > the space?
        > If it wasn't something for your own consumption in the boiler you
        > could use a couple of bricks. (Actually there are such things as
        > glass bricks which COULD be okay....)
        > It's possible your scrap yard has some very heavy stainless bar and
        > could cut you off a couple of bits.
        >
        > Or, a simple one, these are frequently used in condensers or
        > sometimes (just a few) in boilers to 'break up the bubbles' or
        > something like that; throw in a heap of marbles, half a gallon?
        > And that would work fine even if your access hole is small.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > The Baker
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes"
        > <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments.
        > >
        > > It doesn't look as if I'm doing much wrong though stripping down to
        > > 10%ABV is an important development. Distilling the spirit may be a
        > > problem due to the electric element in the boiler being a gallon or
        > so
        > > up.
        >
        > snip
        >
        > > Tony


        I use Marbles. For a strip run They arent necessary as I know that there will be at least a gallon (what it takes to cover my elements)left in the boiler. But for a spirit run, I put a bed of marbles in the boiler so that they are just under the elements but not touching them. At that point it takes just a half gallon to keep the elements covered safely.

        Mason
      • anthonyathawes
        ... Thank you for the suggestions. A half-gallon would be a helluva a lot of marbles, cutting up stainles wouldn t be much fun with a hacksaw, and I think
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 4, 2009
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Tony, hi folks,
          >
          > Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of
          > the space?
          > If it wasn't something for your own consumption in the boiler you
          > could use a couple of bricks. (Actually there are such things as
          > glass bricks which COULD be okay....)
          > It's possible your scrap yard has some very heavy stainless bar and
          > could cut you off a couple of bits.
          >
          > Or, a simple one, these are frequently used in condensers or
          > sometimes (just a few) in boilers to 'break up the bubbles' or
          > something like that; throw in a heap of marbles, half a gallon?
          > And that would work fine even if your access hole is small.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > The Baker

          Thank you for the suggestions. A half-gallon would be a helluva a lot of marbles, cutting up stainles wouldn't be much fun with a hacksaw, and I think glass bricks are hollow and would float. An alternative would be to empty out that loose change jar and put it in a linen coin bag, and boil it all up if you haven't been to the Bank for some time.....

          The latest recipe from "Making Guy" looks interesting. Doing a rough cut down to 10%ABV seems another way of getting the taste out of the Molasses. Actually, using Dunder to top up the boiler above the element is probably the best solution to both problems of height and taste.

          I should like to thank Alex Costello, Brian Bornais, and others for thei private and helpful suggestions.

          Tony
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes"
          > <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments.
          > >
          > > It doesn't look as if I'm doing much wrong though stripping down to
          > > 10%ABV is an important development. Distilling the spirit may be a
          > > problem due to the electric element in the boiler being a gallon or
          > so
          > > up.
          >
          > snip
          >
          > > Tony
          >
        • Eric Yendall
          Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don t let them touch the element. Eric
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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            Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.

            Eric
          • anthonyathawes
            Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don t like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent. I feel inclined to take up the
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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              Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.

              I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.

              As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

              As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.

              Tony

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
              >
              > Eric
              >
            • martin martins
              ... Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don t use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :) ... It ll improve the coke anyway, seems a
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                >Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent

                Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don't use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :)

                >As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

                It'll improve the coke anyway, seems a shocking waste of rum though.


              • Zapata Vive
                I think marbles were passed on for some reason or other earlier in the thread, but they are commonly used instead of topping up when making wine in order to
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                  I think marbles were passed on for some reason or other earlier in the thread, but they are commonly used instead of "topping up" when making wine in order to keep fermenters full with no air space.  They can be readily bought cheaply in discount stores.
                   
                  Really it's over thinking.  Use anything clean and inert that will sink.  Glass, stainless, copper, stone etc.  Heck, I'd probably just use clean washed sand if it were me, but I have an abundance of it.  What do YOU have an abundance of?  Surely something...
                   
                  But, if you have dunder, I could only imagine that it would improve things, assuming it is either settled / filtered so it doesn't have too much particulates which could burn on the element.  Keep in mind that diluting the wash instead of filling up the space will lower the ABV your product will be collected at.  Might not be a bad thing, but I'd run the calculation first to make sure you're ok with however much you dilute it.
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:53 AM
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do

                  Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.

                  I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.

                  As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

                  As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.

                  Tony

                • Michael J Wood
                  just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                    just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                  • anthonyathawes
                    Yes, but I want to get as much rum flavour over as possible....And that must come from the Molasses/Dunder?
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                      Yes, but I want to get as much rum flavour over as possible....And that must come from the Molasses/Dunder?



                      -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Michael J Wood" <eme@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                      >
                    • anthonyathawes
                      Well, that s a matter of taste, literally. Personally, if there weren t mixers, ginger in Whisky/Brandy, tonic in Gin, Cola in Rum, I probably wouldn t
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                        Well, that's a matter of taste, literally. Personally, if there weren't mixers, ginger in Whisky/Brandy, tonic in Gin, Cola in Rum, I probably wouldn't drink.....Good Whisky is another matter though.


                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent
                        >
                        > Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don't use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :)
                        >
                        > >As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                        >
                        > It'll improve the coke anyway, seems a shocking waste of rum though.
                        >
                      • Anthony Athawes
                        Beer was against the law until 1964! I think a mini still would be very useful. I ve thought of modding a coffee pot for trials. I came by a 10 gal keg from a
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                          Beer was against the law until 1964!
                           
                          I think a mini still would be very useful. I've thought of modding a coffee pot for trials. I came by a 10 gal keg from a pub. I , too, had that problem of how to hold down the lid. Do you know, I did it easily. Only 2 self tappers hold it quite securely!
                           
                          Do drop in when you go to your Mum's. We are just off the A420...You might visit Wantage on the way.
                           
                          Nice to hear about your maceration. I intend this some time and there is a diagram in the "Compleat Distiller" which is a really good read.
                           
                          Tony
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:38 PM
                          Subject: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do

                          Yes, but I want to get as much rum flavour over as possible.... And that must come from the Molasses/Dunder?

                          -- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "Michael J Wood" <eme@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                          >

                        • waljaco
                          You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                            You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                            wal
                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                            >
                            > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                            >
                            > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                            >
                            > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                            >
                            > Tony
                            >
                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                            > >
                            > > Eric
                            > >
                            >
                          • anthonyathawes
                            I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2 ? Tony
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                              I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony



                              - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                              > wal
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                              > >
                              > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                              > >
                              > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                              > >
                              > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                              > >
                              > > Tony
                              > >
                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                              > > >
                              > > > Eric
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • anthonyathawes
                              Yes, I ve seen something burnt on the element from the Dunder. I ll filter it through a cloth next time. Thanks. Tony
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                                Yes, I've seen something burnt on the element from the Dunder. I'll filter it through a cloth next time. Thanks. Tony


                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Zapata Vive" <zapatavive@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I think marbles were passed on for some reason or other earlier in the thread, but they are commonly used instead of "topping up" when making wine in order to keep fermenters full with no air space. They can be readily bought cheaply in discount stores.
                                >
                                > Really it's over thinking. Use anything clean and inert that will sink. Glass, stainless, copper, stone etc. Heck, I'd probably just use clean washed sand if it were me, but I have an abundance of it. What do YOU have an abundance of? Surely something...
                                >
                                > But, if you have dunder, I could only imagine that it would improve things, assuming it is either settled / filtered so it doesn't have too much particulates which could burn on the element. Keep in mind that diluting the wash instead of filling up the space will lower the ABV your product will be collected at. Might not be a bad thing, but I'd run the calculation first to make sure you're ok with however much you dilute it.
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: anthonyathawes
                                > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:53 AM
                                > Subject: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do
                                >
                                >
                                > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                >
                                > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                >
                                > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                >
                                > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                >
                                > Tony
                                >
                              • waljaco
                                In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters. wal
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
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                                  In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                  wal

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                  > > wal
                                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Tony
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Eric
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • anthonyathawes
                                  Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                    Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony


                                    -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                    > wal
                                    >
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                    > > > wal
                                    > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Tony
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Eric
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • waljaco
                                    Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                      "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                      "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                      To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                      A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                      (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                      The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                      wal

                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                      > > wal
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                      > > > > wal
                                      > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Tony
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Eric
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • anthonyathawes
                                      I m sorry - but could you clear up what this means? Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                        I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?

                                        Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?

                                        Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?

                                        Tony


                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                        > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                        > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                        > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                        > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                        > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                        > wal
                                        >
                                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                        > > > wal
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                        > > > > > wal
                                        > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Tony
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Eric
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • waljaco
                                        Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis! wal
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                          Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis!
                                          wal
                                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?
                                          >
                                          > Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?
                                          >
                                          > Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?
                                          >
                                          > Tony
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                          > > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                          > > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                          > > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                          > > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                          > > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                          > > wal
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                          > > > > wal
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                          > > > > > > wal
                                          > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Tony
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Eric
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • anthonyathawes
                                          I got half a dozen right away this morning. Cost 32P per 500 cc per one. They even import spheres for £250 from India. I don t see much would happen if they
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                            I got half a dozen right away this morning. Cost 32P per 500 cc per one. They even import spheres for £250 from India. I don't see much would happen if they touched the element though - perhaps a precaution. Tony

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                            >
                                            > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                            >
                                            > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                            >
                                            > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                            >
                                            > Tony
                                            >
                                            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                            > >
                                            > > Eric
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • anthonyathawes
                                            Having got thus far, I want to know why! Tony
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Having got thus far, I want to know why! Tony

                                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis!
                                              > wal
                                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?
                                              > >
                                              > > Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?
                                              > >
                                              > > Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?
                                              > >
                                              > > Tony
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                              > > > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                              > > > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                              > > > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                              > > > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                              > > > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                              > > > wal
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                              > > > > > wal
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                              > > > > > > > wal
                                              > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > Tony
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Eric
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • waljaco
                                              It s all been done for you - just look it up. wal
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                                It's all been done for you - just look it up.

                                                wal
                                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Having got thus far, I want to know why! Tony
                                                >
                                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis!
                                                > > wal
                                                > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Tony
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                                > > > > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                                > > > > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                                > > > > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                                > > > > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                                > > > > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                                > > > > wal
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                                > > > > > > wal
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                                > > > > > > > > wal
                                                > > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > Tony
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Eric
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Anthony Athawes
                                                I got some 6 small blocks yesterday - 32 pence per half litre. Seemed a lot for a piece of the Earth! ... From: martin martins To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
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                                                  I got some 6 small blocks yesterday - 32 pence per half litre. Seemed a lot for a piece of the Earth!
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 5:26 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do

                                                  >Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent

                                                  Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don't use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :)

                                                  >As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

                                                  It'll improve the coke anyway, seems a shocking waste of rum though.


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