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A Rum Do

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  • anthonyathawes
    This might be worth keeping on a little longer than usual. I have a inch worth s printouts on Rum. They go from making up the initial was, distillation,
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 2, 2009
      This might be worth keeping on a little longer than usual.

      I have a inch worth's printouts on Rum. They go from making up the
      initial was, distillation, Smiley, Arroyu, dunder and other
      complications. There is never one that covers from beginning to end,
      escaping under "personal preferences". Cant' we have a complete run-
      down on how an average Rum is made leaving it for later personal
      experimentation?

      I'm now up to trial five and the following notes may attract useful
      advice or comment on similar faults.

      1.Having run through the first wash and distillation, the next 24
      litre wash consisted of:-

      1.2kg Molasses
      2.2kg Brown Sugar
      3.3 litres Dunder from the last distillation
      4.5 tsp dried wine yeast

      250 gms of sugar were added to bring the OG up to 1080.
      This fermented down to 1015. Distillation commenced in a so-called
      World Class Still without reflux. (In point of fact I have come very
      much to doubt it is World Class in any respect).

      The distillate was taken off in 500 cc lots, tasted smelled and
      viewed. the initial % ABV was about 65% though this is only a rough
      calculation as its temperature was around 60C and needed re-
      calculation down to 20C.

      Distillation continued down to an actual 30% ABV for a gallon which
      included some previous feints.

      Now the problems!
      At no stage did the distillate suggest by smell or taste the presence
      of Rum. It simply smelt and tasted "spiritous".. The next interesting
      thing was that over night it went from clear - if not crystal clear,
      to uniformly cloudy.Not too bad to the taste as a spirit.

      Having nine small bottles of distillate, I ended up putting them all
      together, ending with an ABV of 40%. Is it worth distilling a second
      time or accepting that this needs no later dilution?

      Clearly there is still the need for flavouring, and, if I add caramel
      or oak there, is not much wrong with it starting murky(?). The other
      doubt is whether the Molasses is genuine though I was given to
      understand it was 44% sugar and I used brown sugar in any case.

      I should be very glad of any comments and I'm sure there are many
      others still struggling with making Rum and would appreciate advice.

      Tony
    • Trid
      ... I second that...but hey, you have to start somewhere :) (it was my first - I came to the same conclusion) ... You need to keep going to 10% or less. ...
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 2, 2009
        --- On Mon, 3/2/09, anthonyathawes <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
        >
        > This might be worth keeping on a little longer than usual.
        >
        > I have a inch worth's printouts on Rum. They go from
        > making up the
        > initial was, distillation, Smiley, Arroyu, dunder and other
        > complications. There is never one that covers from
        > beginning to end, escaping under "personal preferences". Cant'
        > we have a complete run-
        > down on how an average Rum is made leaving it for later
        > personal experimentation?
        >
        > I'm now up to trial five and the following notes may
        > attract useful advice or comment on similar faults.
        >
        > 1.Having run through the first wash and distillation, the
        > next 24 litre wash consisted of:-
        >
        > 1.2kg Molasses
        > 2.2kg Brown Sugar
        > 3.3 litres Dunder from the last distillation
        > 4.5 tsp dried wine yeast
        >
        > 250 gms of sugar were added to bring the OG up to 1080.
        > This fermented down to 1015. Distillation commenced in a
        > so-called World Class Still without reflux. (In point of fact I have
        > come very much to doubt it is World Class in any respect).

        I second that...but hey, you have to start somewhere :)
        (it was my first - I came to the same conclusion)

        > Distillation continued down to an actual 30% ABV for a
        > gallon which included some previous feints.

        You need to keep going to 10% or less.

        > Now the problems!
        > At no stage did the distillate suggest by smell or taste
        > the presence of Rum. It simply smelt and tasted "spiritous"..

        How did it compare to the smell of your wash? As you're distilling the wash for the first time, you might consider hitting it with a little more heat and collecting faster. The faster it goes, the less separation of alcohol from other compounds (including flavor) occurs.

        > Having nine small bottles of distillate, I ended up putting
        > them all
        > together, ending with an ABV of 40%. Is it worth distilling
        > a second time or accepting that this needs no later dilution?

        Run it again.
        On second run, toss all you got into the boiler and add 25% of that volume of dunder. Separated the portions as you did, but perhaps in 250 ml increments this time. When you're done, cover them with a paper towel with a rubber band to hold it in place, and make your cuts the next day.

        > Clearly there is still the need for flavouring, and, if I
        > add caramel or oak there, is not much wrong with it starting murky(?).

        You can add whatever you desire. The bottom line is making a spirit that YOU enjoy. If it's not the way the commercial guys do it, so what? However, if you're looking to duplicate theirs, you first have to decide whose...they all do things a little different.

        > The other
        > doubt is whether the Molasses is genuine though I was given
        > to understand it was 44% sugar and I used brown sugar in any case.

        I don't really think there's such thing as "imitation" molasses. However, there are quite a variety of grades. Just because you didn't use blackstrap/feed grade sour stuff doesn't mean it's not genuine. It sounds like you used light or table grade molasses which is left with a high sugar content for use like pancake syrup and in cooking. There are a number of award winning rums that use that...some even use only brown sugar. Don't worry, the molasses is not the culprit.

        > I should be very glad of any comments and I'm sure
        > there are many others still struggling with making Rum and would
        > appreciate advice.

        Some general guidelines:
        - Ferment warm (80F -ish)
        - Double pot still (no reflux)
        - strip hard and deep (10% or less)
        - The rum flavors are in the tails, so your cuts on the polishing rum will be different than whisk(e)y. Refer back to the Arroyo patent for some recommended cut points...keep an eye (nose?) out for the "wet cardboard" portion. Be sure to set that aside, but there's good stuff after.

        Trid
        -and when it warms up 'round here (house has no heat) I'll be getting back into the rum game myself
      • anthonyathawes
        Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments. It doesn t look as if I m doing much wrong though stripping down to 10%ABV is an important
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 3, 2009
          Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments.

          It doesn't look as if I'm doing much wrong though stripping down to
          10%ABV is an important development. Distilling the spirit may be a
          problem due to the electic element in the boiler being a gallon or so
          up. As you suggest putting in more Dunder, I guess I'll put in enough
          to safely cover the element. (I would note that I haven't attempted
          using gas so far though I have it to hand but am worried by the
          danger.

          The Molasses was for Horses and cost £5.50/gallon. It weighs pretty
          heavily.

          I note you are in a cold clime. I live in Oxfordshire and the ambiuent
          indoors is close to 22C the year round. I've still to find an
          experienced Rum maker in the UK.

          Thank you again, and I'll be glad of any more comments.

          Tony


          -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- On Mon, 3/2/09, anthonyathawes <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > This might be worth keeping on a little longer than usual.
          > >
          > > I have a inch worth's printouts on Rum. They go from
          > > making up the
          > > initial was, distillation, Smiley, Arroyu, dunder and other
          > > complications. There is never one that covers from
          > > beginning to end, escaping under "personal preferences". Cant'
          > > we have a complete run-
          > > down on how an average Rum is made leaving it for later
          > > personal experimentation?
          > >
          > > I'm now up to trial five and the following notes may
          > > attract useful advice or comment on similar faults.
          > >
          > > 1.Having run through the first wash and distillation, the
          > > next 24 litre wash consisted of:-
          > >
          > > 1.2kg Molasses
          > > 2.2kg Brown Sugar
          > > 3.3 litres Dunder from the last distillation
          > > 4.5 tsp dried wine yeast
          > >
          > > 250 gms of sugar were added to bring the OG up to 1080.
          > > This fermented down to 1015. Distillation commenced in a
          > > so-called World Class Still without reflux. (In point of fact I
          have
          > > come very much to doubt it is World Class in any respect).
          >
          > I second that...but hey, you have to start somewhere :)
          > (it was my first - I came to the same conclusion)
          >
          > > Distillation continued down to an actual 30% ABV for a
          > > gallon which included some previous feints.
          >
          > You need to keep going to 10% or less.
          >
          > > Now the problems!
          > > At no stage did the distillate suggest by smell or taste
          > > the presence of Rum. It simply smelt and tasted "spiritous"..
          >
          > How did it compare to the smell of your wash? As you're distilling
          the wash for the first time, you might consider hitting it with a
          little more heat and collecting faster. The faster it goes, the less
          separation of alcohol from other compounds (including flavor) occurs.
          >
          > > Having nine small bottles of distillate, I ended up putting
          > > them all
          > > together, ending with an ABV of 40%. Is it worth distilling
          > > a second time or accepting that this needs no later dilution?
          >
          > Run it again.
          > On second run, toss all you got into the boiler and add 25% of that
          volume of dunder. Separated the portions as you did, but perhaps in
          250 ml increments this time. When you're done, cover them with a
          paper towel with a rubber band to hold it in place, and make your cuts
          the next day.
          >
          > > Clearly there is still the need for flavouring, and, if I
          > > add caramel or oak there, is not much wrong with it starting
          murky(?).
          >
          > You can add whatever you desire. The bottom line is making a spirit
          that YOU enjoy. If it's not the way the commercial guys do it, so
          what? However, if you're looking to duplicate theirs, you first have
          to decide whose...they all do things a little different.
          >
          > > The other
          > > doubt is whether the Molasses is genuine though I was given
          > > to understand it was 44% sugar and I used brown sugar in any case.
          >
          > I don't really think there's such thing as "imitation" molasses.
          However, there are quite a variety of grades. Just because you didn't
          use blackstrap/feed grade sour stuff doesn't mean it's not genuine.
          It sounds like you used light or table grade molasses which is left
          with a high sugar content for use like pancake syrup and in cooking.
          There are a number of award winning rums that use that...some even use
          only brown sugar. Don't worry, the molasses is not the culprit.
          >
          > > I should be very glad of any comments and I'm sure
          > > there are many others still struggling with making Rum and would
          > > appreciate advice.
          >
          > Some general guidelines:
          > - Ferment warm (80F -ish)
          > - Double pot still (no reflux)
          > - strip hard and deep (10% or less)
          > - The rum flavors are in the tails, so your cuts on the polishing
          rum will be different than whisk(e)y. Refer back to the Arroyo patent
          for some recommended cut points...keep an eye (nose?) out for the "wet
          cardboard" portion. Be sure to set that aside, but there's good stuff
          after.
          >
          > Trid
          > -and when it warms up 'round here (house has no heat) I'll be
          getting back into the rum game myself
          >
        • gff_stwrt
          Hi, Tony, hi folks, Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of the space? If it wasn t something for your own consumption in the
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 3, 2009
            Hi, Tony, hi folks,

            Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of
            the space?
            If it wasn't something for your own consumption in the boiler you
            could use a couple of bricks. (Actually there are such things as
            glass bricks which COULD be okay....)
            It's possible your scrap yard has some very heavy stainless bar and
            could cut you off a couple of bits.

            Or, a simple one, these are frequently used in condensers or
            sometimes (just a few) in boilers to 'break up the bubbles' or
            something like that; throw in a heap of marbles, half a gallon?
            And that would work fine even if your access hole is small.

            Regards,

            The Baker

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes"
            <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments.
            >
            > It doesn't look as if I'm doing much wrong though stripping down to
            > 10%ABV is an important development. Distilling the spirit may be a
            > problem due to the electric element in the boiler being a gallon or
            so
            > up.

            snip

            > Tony
          • rye_junkie1
            ... I use Marbles. For a strip run They arent necessary as I know that there will be at least a gallon (what it takes to cover my elements)left in the boiler.
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 3, 2009
              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi, Tony, hi folks,
              >
              > Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of
              > the space?
              > If it wasn't something for your own consumption in the boiler you
              > could use a couple of bricks. (Actually there are such things as
              > glass bricks which COULD be okay....)
              > It's possible your scrap yard has some very heavy stainless bar and
              > could cut you off a couple of bits.
              >
              > Or, a simple one, these are frequently used in condensers or
              > sometimes (just a few) in boilers to 'break up the bubbles' or
              > something like that; throw in a heap of marbles, half a gallon?
              > And that would work fine even if your access hole is small.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > The Baker
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes"
              > <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments.
              > >
              > > It doesn't look as if I'm doing much wrong though stripping down to
              > > 10%ABV is an important development. Distilling the spirit may be a
              > > problem due to the electric element in the boiler being a gallon or
              > so
              > > up.
              >
              > snip
              >
              > > Tony


              I use Marbles. For a strip run They arent necessary as I know that there will be at least a gallon (what it takes to cover my elements)left in the boiler. But for a spirit run, I put a bed of marbles in the boiler so that they are just under the elements but not touching them. At that point it takes just a half gallon to keep the elements covered safely.

              Mason
            • anthonyathawes
              ... Thank you for the suggestions. A half-gallon would be a helluva a lot of marbles, cutting up stainles wouldn t be much fun with a hacksaw, and I think
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 4, 2009
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "gff_stwrt" <gff_stwrt@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Tony, hi folks,
                >
                > Can you put something in the bottom of the boiler to take up some of
                > the space?
                > If it wasn't something for your own consumption in the boiler you
                > could use a couple of bricks. (Actually there are such things as
                > glass bricks which COULD be okay....)
                > It's possible your scrap yard has some very heavy stainless bar and
                > could cut you off a couple of bits.
                >
                > Or, a simple one, these are frequently used in condensers or
                > sometimes (just a few) in boilers to 'break up the bubbles' or
                > something like that; throw in a heap of marbles, half a gallon?
                > And that would work fine even if your access hole is small.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > The Baker

                Thank you for the suggestions. A half-gallon would be a helluva a lot of marbles, cutting up stainles wouldn't be much fun with a hacksaw, and I think glass bricks are hollow and would float. An alternative would be to empty out that loose change jar and put it in a linen coin bag, and boil it all up if you haven't been to the Bank for some time.....

                The latest recipe from "Making Guy" looks interesting. Doing a rough cut down to 10%ABV seems another way of getting the taste out of the Molasses. Actually, using Dunder to top up the boiler above the element is probably the best solution to both problems of height and taste.

                I should like to thank Alex Costello, Brian Bornais, and others for thei private and helpful suggestions.

                Tony
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes"
                > <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thank you very much, Trid, for your interest and comments.
                > >
                > > It doesn't look as if I'm doing much wrong though stripping down to
                > > 10%ABV is an important development. Distilling the spirit may be a
                > > problem due to the electric element in the boiler being a gallon or
                > so
                > > up.
                >
                > snip
                >
                > > Tony
                >
              • Eric Yendall
                Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don t let them touch the element. Eric
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                  Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.

                  Eric
                • anthonyathawes
                  Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don t like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent. I feel inclined to take up the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                    Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.

                    I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.

                    As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

                    As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.

                    Tony

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                    >
                    > Eric
                    >
                  • martin martins
                    ... Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don t use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :) ... It ll improve the coke anyway, seems a
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                      >Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent

                      Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don't use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :)

                      >As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

                      It'll improve the coke anyway, seems a shocking waste of rum though.


                    • Zapata Vive
                      I think marbles were passed on for some reason or other earlier in the thread, but they are commonly used instead of topping up when making wine in order to
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                        I think marbles were passed on for some reason or other earlier in the thread, but they are commonly used instead of "topping up" when making wine in order to keep fermenters full with no air space.  They can be readily bought cheaply in discount stores.
                         
                        Really it's over thinking.  Use anything clean and inert that will sink.  Glass, stainless, copper, stone etc.  Heck, I'd probably just use clean washed sand if it were me, but I have an abundance of it.  What do YOU have an abundance of?  Surely something...
                         
                        But, if you have dunder, I could only imagine that it would improve things, assuming it is either settled / filtered so it doesn't have too much particulates which could burn on the element.  Keep in mind that diluting the wash instead of filling up the space will lower the ABV your product will be collected at.  Might not be a bad thing, but I'd run the calculation first to make sure you're ok with however much you dilute it.
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:53 AM
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do

                        Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.

                        I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.

                        As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

                        As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.

                        Tony

                      • Michael J Wood
                        just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                          just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                        • anthonyathawes
                          Yes, but I want to get as much rum flavour over as possible....And that must come from the Molasses/Dunder?
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                            Yes, but I want to get as much rum flavour over as possible....And that must come from the Molasses/Dunder?



                            -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Michael J Wood" <eme@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                            >
                          • anthonyathawes
                            Well, that s a matter of taste, literally. Personally, if there weren t mixers, ginger in Whisky/Brandy, tonic in Gin, Cola in Rum, I probably wouldn t
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                              Well, that's a matter of taste, literally. Personally, if there weren't mixers, ginger in Whisky/Brandy, tonic in Gin, Cola in Rum, I probably wouldn't drink.....Good Whisky is another matter though.


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, martin martins <mm123@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent
                              >
                              > Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don't use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :)
                              >
                              > >As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                              >
                              > It'll improve the coke anyway, seems a shocking waste of rum though.
                              >
                            • Anthony Athawes
                              Beer was against the law until 1964! I think a mini still would be very useful. I ve thought of modding a coffee pot for trials. I came by a 10 gal keg from a
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                                Beer was against the law until 1964!
                                 
                                I think a mini still would be very useful. I've thought of modding a coffee pot for trials. I came by a 10 gal keg from a pub. I , too, had that problem of how to hold down the lid. Do you know, I did it easily. Only 2 self tappers hold it quite securely!
                                 
                                Do drop in when you go to your Mum's. We are just off the A420...You might visit Wantage on the way.
                                 
                                Nice to hear about your maceration. I intend this some time and there is a diagram in the "Compleat Distiller" which is a really good read.
                                 
                                Tony
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:38 PM
                                Subject: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do

                                Yes, but I want to get as much rum flavour over as possible.... And that must come from the Molasses/Dunder?

                                -- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "Michael J Wood" <eme@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > just add more water - you are distilling the alcohol from the water - not the water from the alcohol :-)
                                >

                              • waljaco
                                You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and
                                Message 15 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                                  You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                  wal
                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                  >
                                  > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                  >
                                  > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                  >
                                  > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                  >
                                  > Tony
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                  > >
                                  > > Eric
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • anthonyathawes
                                  I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2 ? Tony
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                                    I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony



                                    - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                    > wal
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                    > >
                                    > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                    > >
                                    > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                    > >
                                    > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                    > >
                                    > > Tony
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Eric
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • anthonyathawes
                                    Yes, I ve seen something burnt on the element from the Dunder. I ll filter it through a cloth next time. Thanks. Tony
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                                      Yes, I've seen something burnt on the element from the Dunder. I'll filter it through a cloth next time. Thanks. Tony


                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Zapata Vive" <zapatavive@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I think marbles were passed on for some reason or other earlier in the thread, but they are commonly used instead of "topping up" when making wine in order to keep fermenters full with no air space. They can be readily bought cheaply in discount stores.
                                      >
                                      > Really it's over thinking. Use anything clean and inert that will sink. Glass, stainless, copper, stone etc. Heck, I'd probably just use clean washed sand if it were me, but I have an abundance of it. What do YOU have an abundance of? Surely something...
                                      >
                                      > But, if you have dunder, I could only imagine that it would improve things, assuming it is either settled / filtered so it doesn't have too much particulates which could burn on the element. Keep in mind that diluting the wash instead of filling up the space will lower the ABV your product will be collected at. Might not be a bad thing, but I'd run the calculation first to make sure you're ok with however much you dilute it.
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: anthonyathawes
                                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 11:53 AM
                                      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                      >
                                      > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                      >
                                      > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                      >
                                      > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                      >
                                      > Tony
                                      >
                                    • waljaco
                                      In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters. wal
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Mar 5, 2009
                                        In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                        wal

                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                        > > wal
                                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Tony
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Eric
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • anthonyathawes
                                        Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                          Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony


                                          -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                          > wal
                                          >
                                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                          > > > wal
                                          > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Tony
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Eric
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • waljaco
                                          Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                            "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                            "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                            To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                            A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                            (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                            The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                            wal

                                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                            > > wal
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                            > > > > wal
                                            > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Tony
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Eric
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • anthonyathawes
                                            I m sorry - but could you clear up what this means? Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                              I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?

                                              Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?

                                              Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?

                                              Tony


                                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                              > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                              > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                              > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                              > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                              > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                              > wal
                                              >
                                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                              > > > wal
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                              > > > > > wal
                                              > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Tony
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Eric
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • waljaco
                                              Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis! wal
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                                Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis!
                                                wal
                                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?
                                                >
                                                > Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?
                                                >
                                                > Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?
                                                >
                                                > Tony
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                                > > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                                > > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                                > > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                                > > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                                > > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                                > > wal
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                                > > > > wal
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                                > > > > > > wal
                                                > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Tony
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > Eric
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • anthonyathawes
                                                I got half a dozen right away this morning. Cost 32P per 500 cc per one. They even import spheres for £250 from India. I don t see much would happen if they
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                                  I got half a dozen right away this morning. Cost 32P per 500 cc per one. They even import spheres for £250 from India. I don't see much would happen if they touched the element though - perhaps a precaution. Tony

                                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                                  >
                                                  > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                                  >
                                                  > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                                  >
                                                  > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                                  >
                                                  > Tony
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Eric
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • anthonyathawes
                                                  Having got thus far, I want to know why! Tony
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                                    Having got thus far, I want to know why! Tony

                                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis!
                                                    > wal
                                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Tony
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                                    > > > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                                    > > > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                                    > > > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                                    > > > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                                    > > > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                                    > > > wal
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                                    > > > > > wal
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                                    > > > > > > > wal
                                                    > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > Tony
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > > > Eric
                                                    > > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > >
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                                                  • waljaco
                                                    It s all been done for you - just look it up. wal
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                                      It's all been done for you - just look it up.

                                                      wal
                                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Having got thus far, I want to know why! Tony
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Too much analysis on your part is leading to paralysis!
                                                      > > wal
                                                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > I'm sorry - but could you clear up what this means?
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Should I put the Dunder out in the garden with a cloth over it,and, if so, for how long? Would the British atmosphere work? Or, as in my earlier case, does the Dunder already have the active ingredient in it and go to work immediately?
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Or, what do you put in to simulate the same effect? What do the big boys do?
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Tony
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > "Hoever it is the high level of bacterial contamination in these (spontaneous) fermentations that produces many of the desirable congeners such as acids and esters."
                                                      > > > > "Dunder is old stillage that has been stored in open tanks to allow development of a strong bacterial flora.
                                                      > > > > To attempt a more controlled fermentation in production of heavy rums, a pure culture of yeast may be used together with a pure bacterial culture.
                                                      > > > > A pure culture of bacteria such as Clostridium saccharobutyricum may be added after 6-12 hrs of the yeast fermentation."
                                                      > > > > (Feedstocks, fermentation and distillation for production of heavy and light rums, JE Murtagh)
                                                      > > > > The more you read the more you know - so read, read, read.
                                                      > > > > wal
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Well, this has been a most interesting chase! A year ago, I produced a half full winchester that had the the most ugly mould on the surface. It was so awful I ditched it. Shortly afterwards I was told I'd got rid of the best bit. Too late! Goodness knows what an open tankful in Jamaica would look like! Tony
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > -- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > In Jamaica dunder is stored in open tanks. Rum distillers sometimes also add a suitable mould to the fermsnt to create esters.
                                                      > > > > > > wal
                                                      > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > I have 2 one gallon winchesters of Dunder full to the bungs. Will this generate fungi, or should there be an air gap of say 2"? Tony
                                                      > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > - In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > You are concerned about flavour. The raw materials provide only some of the flavour. Yeasts and fungi produce wonderful esters then the added caramel syrup and toasted oak (chips). The esters in dunder should be produced by fungi before use.
                                                      > > > > > > > > wal
                                                      > > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "anthonyathawes" <anthony.athawes@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent.
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > I feel inclined to take up the suggestion to put in a couple of gallons of Dunder first. This should take the level above the element as well as, hopefully, putting in a lot of flavour which it's lacking at the moment. Failing this,any discrepancy could be made up with ordinary water.
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > As a matter of interest, I think it might be worth putting in a small electric motor and propeller to stir the mix around.
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > Tony
                                                      > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eric Yendall <eric_yendall@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Put a few clean granite or similar rocks on the bottom. Works like a charm for me. Just don't let them touch the element.
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > > > > > > Eric
                                                      > > > > > > > > > >
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                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • Anthony Athawes
                                                      I got some 6 small blocks yesterday - 32 pence per half litre. Seemed a lot for a piece of the Earth! ... From: martin martins To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Mar 6, 2009
                                                        I got some 6 small blocks yesterday - 32 pence per half litre. Seemed a lot for a piece of the Earth!
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 5:26 PM
                                                        Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: A Rum Do

                                                        >Goodness only knows where I should get granite round here! I don't like the idea of house bricks as they look absorbent

                                                        Garden centres, Wilco, fish supply stores. Don't use bricks, they are made of clay and goodness knows what :)

                                                        >As a last ditch stand, I drown rum in Coca Cola, and the spirit pleasantly dilutes it. At least it is smoother after a couple of weeks waiting.

                                                        It'll improve the coke anyway, seems a shocking waste of rum though.


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