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Whiskey making

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  • burrows206
    Hi Harry, Can you explain why the master distillers from 150 to 250 years ago in Scotland and Ireland could make such good whiskeys without access to the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 29, 2009

      Hi Harry,

           Can you explain why the master distillers from 150 to 250 years ago in Scotland and Ireland could make such good whiskeys without access to the highly refined sugar like we have today?

           Seems to me to get any appreciable amount of usable sugars for a wash from grain they must have used a hell've' lot of malted grain and water and when fermented out, it couldn't have been much stronger in % Abv than a good pint of Heavy.  Would this be correct? 

           Oh yeah for those that don't know what a pint of Heavy is, this a full bodied or heavy malt flavoured stout served in Scotland's working class pubs and an easily acquired taste it was a good substitute to Guinness also an easily acquired taste when I lived in Scotand for a while, these stouts can be a tad strong for nearly all non Gaelic races who weren't reared on them.

           Anyway to get a reasonable amount of good whiskey doing double and triple distilling through those huge pot stills they must have been dealing with huge low alcohol washes and the work and materials, turf and wood in the early years and coal or or gas in the later years time spent in the barrel and whatever was involved to do this must have been very expensive

           I suppose this outlay needed clawing back hence the hefty price tag on some of the better whiskeys of old?

           Where these huge volumes of low alcohol washes', when distilled, the reason why they tasted so good?

      Geoff      

    • waljaco
      Where can you find a 150 year old bottle of whisky to see if you are right? wal ... years ago ... price tag
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 29, 2009
        Where can you find a 150 year old bottle of whisky to see if you are
        right?
        wal
        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206" <jeffrey.burrows@...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi Harry,
        >
        > Can you explain why the master distillers from 150 to 250
        years ago
        > in Scotland and Ireland could make such good whiskeys without access to
        > the highly refined sugar like we have today?
        >
        > Seems to me to get any appreciable amount of usable sugars for a
        > wash from grain they must have used a hell've' lot of malted
        > grain and water and when fermented out, it couldn't have been much
        > stronger in % Abv than a good pint of Heavy. Would this be correct?
        >
        > Oh yeah for those that don't know what a pint of Heavy is, this
        > a full bodied or heavy malt flavoured stout served in Scotland's
        > working class pubs and an easily acquired taste it was a good substitute
        > to Guinness also an easily acquired taste when I lived in Scotand for a
        > while, these stouts can be a tad strong for nearly all non Gaelic races
        > who weren't reared on them.
        >
        > Anyway to get a reasonable amount of good whiskey doing double and
        > triple distilling through those huge pot stills they must have been
        > dealing with huge low alcohol washes and the work and materials, turf
        > and wood in the early years and coal or or gas in the later years time
        > spent in the barrel and whatever was involved to do this must have been
        > very expensive
        >
        > I suppose this outlay needed clawing back hence the hefty
        price tag
        > on some of the better whiskeys of old?
        >
        > Where these huge volumes of low alcohol washes', when
        > distilled, the reason why they tasted so good?
        >
        > Geoff
        >
      • nonamedistiller
        ... Here you go wal. Don t know if you can buy this out right, But if you have enough dough I am sure you probably could, They do have tasting everyone in a
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 29, 2009


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
          >
          > Where can you find a 150 year old bottle of whisky to see if you are
          > right?
          > wal

          Here you go wal. 
           Don't know if you can buy this out right, But if you have enough dough I am sure you probably could,  They do have tasting everyone in a while it looks like the site says,  The Whiskey is Middelton Rare,  Says its distilled from a 150Year old mash, Which I didn't understand, Hope they meant that either its a 150 year old tradition, Or they did it then and been aging every since. :) 
           Here is the site,  Yahoo turned up more,   But I am not a Whiskey/whisky person, I was just trying to do the search after seeing your post..
            Good luck on the hunt, Let us know how it taste if you ever get a hold of any..
          http://www.thorntonsirishpub.com/2527.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*

          Here  was a copy of the search I did, Looks like there was about 12 pages of stuff returned, Granted not all of it was 150 year old Whiskey's..

          http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=150+year+old+whiskey&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

          NoName (NameLess)

           "Whisky/whiskey Invey"

        • burrows206
          Hi Waljaco, You would be lucky to find whiskey when I grew up older than 150 days let alone 150 years, that 150 day old stuff would be you re finely tuned
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 29, 2009
            Hi Waljaco,
            You would be lucky to find whiskey when I grew up older than
            150 days let alone 150 years, that 150 day old stuff would be you're
            finely tuned (clear of all colour) 150 day old matured (in glass)
            Lagan side single malt whiskey, classified as single malt only if you
            have one single shot in the glass.
            Seriously though I do get your point how would you compare them? The
            older generations tend to say of kids today
            "Ya don't know you're born, your pocket money would have feed a
            family for a week in my day"
            "We were poor but we were happy"
            Well we were poor and let me tell you poor in Ireland poor meant
            bloody poor and we weren't so bloody happy either. Why do you think
            so many Paddy's and Jock's left there homeland and are now
            scattered all over
            the world in every walk of life? (your Scotish family ancestors are a
            prime example Harry and me as well in France). A little bit of
            whiskey to drown out your
            hardships then and now was/is a welcome break and was something that
            the working man could look forward to. Then the b**t**ds tried to
            take that little enjoyment away from or ancestors with the excise
            man.
            We can't have the bally blighters enjoying themselves they're
            not supposed to. What ho! can't have that, let's jolly well tax the
            bally life out of the plebians?
            Gosh before we know it. They'll want to bally well vote and own
            horses and property next can't have that.
            Right my rant at the injustices in the world and class system,
            in my ancestors time then and now is over. Gosh I bally well do feel
            better now.
            Geoff

            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
            >
            > Where can you find a 150 year old bottle of whisky to see if you are
            > right?
            > wal
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206" <jeffrey.burrows@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Harry,
            > >
            > > Can you explain why the master distillers from 150 to 250
            > years ago
            > > in Scotland and Ireland could make such good whiskeys without
            access to
            > > the highly refined sugar like we have today?
            > >
            > > Seems to me to get any appreciable amount of usable sugars
            for a
            > > wash from grain they must have used a hell've' lot of malted
            > > grain and water and when fermented out, it couldn't have been much
            > > stronger in % Abv than a good pint of Heavy. Would this be
            correct?
            > >
            > > Oh yeah for those that don't know what a pint of Heavy is,
            this
            > > a full bodied or heavy malt flavoured stout served in Scotland's
            > > working class pubs and an easily acquired taste it was a good
            substitute
            > > to Guinness also an easily acquired taste when I lived in Scotand
            for a
            > > while, these stouts can be a tad strong for nearly all non Gaelic
            races
            > > who weren't reared on them.
            > >
            > > Anyway to get a reasonable amount of good whiskey doing
            double and
            > > triple distilling through those huge pot stills they must have
            been
            > > dealing with huge low alcohol washes and the work and materials,
            turf
            > > and wood in the early years and coal or or gas in the later years
            time
            > > spent in the barrel and whatever was involved to do this must
            have been
            > > very expensive
            > >
            > > I suppose this outlay needed clawing back hence the hefty
            > price tag
            > > on some of the better whiskeys of old?
            > >
            > > Where these huge volumes of low alcohol washes', when
            > > distilled, the reason why they tasted so good?
            > >
            > > Geoff
            > >
            >
          • Robert Hubble
            Hi Geoff, My reply is inline. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com From: jeffrey.burrows@orange.fr Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:52:04
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 29, 2009
              Hi Geoff,

              My reply is inline.

              Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller




              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              From: jeffrey.burrows@...
              Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:52:04 +0000
              Subject: [Distillers] Whiskey making


              Hi Harry,

                   Can you explain why the master distillers from 150 to 250 years ago in Scotland and Ireland could make such good whiskeys without access to the highly refined sugar like we have today?

              While I'm sure no master distiller, some days I *feel* like 250, and until this last continuous sourmash experiment, I've used no refined sugar in *my* whisk(e)ys, and I think my whisk(e)ys are good. 

                   Seems to me to get any appreciable amount of usable sugars for a wash from grain they must have used a hell've' lot of malted grain and water and when fermented out, it couldn't have been much stronger in % Abv than a good pint of Heavy.  Would this be correct? 

              It's correct for *my* washes. It's axiomatic that the higher the ABV of the wash, the worse it tastes (loosely translated) and yes it *does* take a helluva a lot of grain, and work too. After starting to distill grain whisk(e)ys, I've never understood how whisk(e)y could be sold so cheaply.

                   Oh yeah for those that don't know what a pint of Heavy is, this a full bodied or heavy malt flavoured stout served in Scotland's working class pubs and an easily acquired taste it was a good substitute to Guinness also an easily acquired taste when I lived in Scotand for a while, these stouts can be a tad strong for nearly all non Gaelic races who weren't reared on them.

              As an allgrain homebrewer, one of the family favorites is a Foreign Extra Stout from a recipe in Brew Your Own magazine. For a woman who didn't used to like beer, my wife took to that like a kitten to cream. Me too, for that matter.

                   Anyway to get a reasonable amount of good whiskey doing double and triple distilling through those huge pot stills they must have been dealing with huge low alcohol washes and the work and materials, turf and wood in the early years and coal or or gas in the later years time spent in the barrel and whatever was involved to do this must have been very expensive

              It is for me, and I'm guessing it was for them.

                   I suppose this outlay needed clawing back hence the hefty price tag on some of the better whiskeys of old?

                   Where these huge volumes of low alcohol washes', when distilled, the reason why they tasted so good?

              I think so, and it's why I prize my own whisk(e)ys and almost never have any left after aging and tasting. That's why this continuous sourmash bourbon batch I just did is such a big deal to me. I'll have enough to age, taste, keep on my shelf, and maybe give a bottle or two to my kids.

              I hope this helps put things in perspective.

              Geoff      




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            • burrows206
              Hi Bob, Yes it does help. You ve gave me the answers I sorta already knew but was too butt lazy to do the spade work and figure out for myself. So what you re
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 29, 2009
                Hi Bob,
                Yes it does help. You've gave me the answers I sorta already
                knew but was too butt lazy to do the spade work and figure out for
                myself.
                So what you're really saying is to get a good whiskey (in
                Ireland and uk we spell it whisky but I was trying to cover all bases
                with whiskey) it involves a lot of raw ingredients and hard work for
                any able bodied person. I think if I make whisky I will get a
                willing helper even if he is French and get him to do the grunt work
                (me in a wheelchair and with one functioning hand makes it hard to do
                the grunt work) Lucky I like vodka
                and whatever occasional bottle of whisky comes my way. (well any
                reasonable tasting alcohol really if the truth be known)
                Thanks for your comments.
                Geoff

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi Geoff,
                >
                > My reply is inline.
                >
                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                >
                >
                >
                > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                > From: jeffrey.burrows@...
                > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:52:04 +0000
                > Subject: [Distillers] Whiskey making
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Harry,
                > Can you explain why the master distillers from 150 to 250
                years ago in Scotland and Ireland could make such good whiskeys
                without access to the highly refined sugar like we have today?While
                I'm sure no master distiller, some days I *feel* like 250, and until
                this last continuous sourmash experiment, I've used no refined sugar
                in *my* whisk(e)ys, and I think my whisk(e)ys are good.
                >
                > Seems to me to get any appreciable amount of usable sugars for
                a wash from grain they must have used a hell've' lot of malted grain
                and water and when fermented out, it couldn't have been much stronger
                in % Abv than a good pint of Heavy. Would this be correct?
                > It's correct for *my* washes. It's axiomatic that the higher the
                ABV of the wash, the worse it tastes (loosely translated) and yes it
                *does* take a helluva a lot of grain, and work too. After starting to
                distill grain whisk(e)ys, I've never understood how whisk(e)y could
                be sold so cheaply.
                >
                > Oh yeah for those that don't know what a pint of Heavy is,
                this a full bodied or heavy malt flavoured stout served in Scotland's
                working class pubs and an easily acquired taste it was a good
                substitute to Guinness also an easily acquired taste when I lived in
                Scotand for a while, these stouts can be a tad strong for nearly all
                non Gaelic races who weren't reared on them.As an allgrain
                homebrewer, one of the family favorites is a Foreign Extra Stout from
                a recipe in Brew Your Own magazine. For a woman who didn't used to
                like beer, my wife took to that like a kitten to cream. Me too, for
                that matter.
                >
                > Anyway to get a reasonable amount of good whiskey doing double
                and triple distilling through those huge pot stills they must have
                been dealing with huge low alcohol washes and the work and materials,
                turf and wood in the early years and coal or or gas in the later
                years time spent in the barrel and whatever was involved to do this
                must have been very expensive
                > It is for me, and I'm guessing it was for them.
                >
                > I suppose this outlay needed clawing back hence the hefty
                price tag on some of the better whiskeys of old?
                > Where these huge volumes of low alcohol washes', when
                distilled, the reason why they tasted so good?I think so, and it's
                why I prize my own whisk(e)ys and almost never have any left after
                aging and tasting. That's why this continuous sourmash bourbon batch
                I just did is such a big deal to me. I'll have enough to age, taste,
                keep on my shelf, and maybe give a bottle or two to my kids.I hope
                this helps put things in perspective.
                >
                > Geoff
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
                > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?
                ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009
                >
              • l0a4n5g3e
                ... Underwater....... It has been reported in several occasions that in wrecks from that period, with whisky-cargo, complete, unspoilt, bottles have been
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 2, 2009
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "waljaco" <waljaco@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Where can you find a 150 year old bottle of whisky to see if you are
                  > right?
                  > wal

                  Underwater.......

                  It has been reported in several occasions that in wrecks from that
                  period, with whisky-cargo, complete, unspoilt, bottles have been
                  recuperated.

                  After selling through auction houses, the respective divers could
                  say "We drank a bottle of £ 750,= of whisky....." as the bottles did
                  between £ 750 to 1200 each !

                  Regards,

                  LangeA3
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