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Brazing - brass to SS?

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  • Matt
    anyone have a good guide on brazing copper or brass to SS? I just picked up one of those little mapp/oxygen rigs and I want to try it out. I m assuming I need
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 24, 2008
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      anyone have a good guide on brazing copper or brass to SS? I just
      picked up one of those little mapp/oxygen rigs and I want to try it
      out. I'm assuming I need different flux that I use for soldering
      copper? Anyone have experience or a good how-to guide someplace that
      I can check out before I attempt to burn my house down? :)
    • Sherman
      There are several beginner s guides to soldering. I have given out a lot of instructions especially on soldering copper and brass to stainless steel.
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 24, 2008
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        There are several beginner's guides to soldering. I have given out a
        lot of instructions especially on soldering copper and brass to
        stainless steel.
        Generally, due to the different coefficients of expansion, brazing and
        stainless don't work well together. The stainless contracts and the
        brass tears micro cracks radiating from the brazed joint out into the
        stainless sheet. Preventing this is hard due to the high brazing
        temperatures.
        I have had to resort to soft solder almost every time for a stainless
        to non-stainless joint.

        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mauger81@...> wrote:
        >
        > anyone have a good guide on brazing copper or brass to SS? I just
        > picked up one of those little mapp/oxygen rigs and I want to try it
        > out. I'm assuming I need different flux that I use for soldering
        > copper? Anyone have experience or a good how-to guide someplace that
        > I can check out before I attempt to burn my house down? :)
        >
      • rye_junkie1
        ... I like to use the Radnor/Harris 45% silver braze kit. Map/Oxy should make plenty of heat for the application. A kit will usually run you around 20 bucks
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 24, 2008
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mauger81@...> wrote:
          >
          > anyone have a good guide on brazing copper or brass to SS? I just
          > picked up one of those little mapp/oxygen rigs and I want to try it
          > out. I'm assuming I need different flux that I use for soldering
          > copper? Anyone have experience or a good how-to guide someplace that
          > I can check out before I attempt to burn my house down? :)

          I like to use the Radnor/Harris 45% silver braze kit. Map/Oxy should
          make plenty of heat for the application. A kit will usually run you
          around 20 bucks at your local welding supply, Air liquide, Holox, and
          such. Basically just flux and heat cherry red or until the wire flows
          and let it cool. The stuff is great for SS, Plain Steel, Copper,
          Brass and any combination of them. Does not work for AL. I believe
          the tensile strength of the Joint if done properly is around 80,000 PSI.
          I built a Frank Dehass rifle action with the stuff as was recommended
          in the book instructions. Has held up to a few thousand rounds of
          Lead 38-55 rounds. Just make sure you want/like what you use it on
          because unlike lead free plumbers solder and a propane torch this
          stuff is pretty much forever.

          Mason
        • rye_junkie1
          ... Damn, I posted this Friday before I left work and its just showing up? Mason
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 26, 2008
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mauger81@> wrote:
            > >
            > > anyone have a good guide on brazing copper or brass to SS? I just
            > > picked up one of those little mapp/oxygen rigs and I want to try it
            > > out. I'm assuming I need different flux that I use for soldering
            > > copper? Anyone have experience or a good how-to guide someplace that
            > > I can check out before I attempt to burn my house down? :)
            >
            > I like to use the Radnor/Harris 45% silver braze kit. Map/Oxy should
            > make plenty of heat for the application. A kit will usually run you
            > around 20 bucks at your local welding supply, Air liquide, Holox, and
            > such. Basically just flux and heat cherry red or until the wire flows
            > and let it cool. The stuff is great for SS, Plain Steel, Copper,
            > Brass and any combination of them. Does not work for AL. I believe
            > the tensile strength of the Joint if done properly is around 80,000 PSI.
            > I built a Frank Dehass rifle action with the stuff as was recommended
            > in the book instructions. Has held up to a few thousand rounds of
            > Lead 38-55 rounds. Just make sure you want/like what you use it on
            > because unlike lead free plumbers solder and a propane torch this
            > stuff is pretty much forever.
            >
            > Mason
            >

            Damn,
            I posted this Friday before I left work and its just showing up?

            Mason
          • Matt
            Thanks Mason, there s a shop a few miles from my office, I ll see if they have it today and give it a shot. I was practicing the other night on some scrap SS
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 27, 2008
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              Thanks Mason, there's a shop a few miles from my office, I'll see if
              they have it today and give it a shot. I was practicing the other
              night on some scrap SS with nickel-steel flux-coated rods I think and
              I could get the damn stuff to melt. It was the closest thing home
              depot had...guess it wasn't the right stuff (hence using scrap
              first...). We'll see how this stuff goes.


              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
              wrote:
              >

              > I like to use the Radnor/Harris 45% silver braze kit. Map/Oxy
              should
              > make plenty of heat for the application. A kit will usually run you
              > around 20 bucks at your local welding supply, Air liquide, Holox,
              and
              > such. Basically just flux and heat cherry red or until the wire
              flows
              > and let it cool. The stuff is great for SS, Plain Steel, Copper,
              > Brass and any combination of them. Does not work for AL. I believe
              > the tensile strength of the Joint if done properly is around 80,000
              PSI.
              > I built a Frank Dehass rifle action with the stuff as was
              recommended
              > in the book instructions. Has held up to a few thousand rounds of
              > Lead 38-55 rounds. Just make sure you want/like what you use it on
              > because unlike lead free plumbers solder and a propane torch this
              > stuff is pretty much forever.
              >
              > Mason
              >
            • diskmaster23
              ... I ve tried the whole brazing welding before. I got tired of the stuff always cracking and causing all kinds of hell. I ve found that stainless to stainless
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 30, 2008
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                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <mauger81@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Mason, there's a shop a few miles from my office, I'll see if
                > they have it today and give it a shot. I was practicing the other
                > night on some scrap SS with nickel-steel flux-coated rods I think and
                > I could get the damn stuff to melt. It was the closest thing home
                > depot had...guess it wasn't the right stuff (hence using scrap
                > first...). We'll see how this stuff goes.
                >
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                >
                > > I like to use the Radnor/Harris 45% silver braze kit. Map/Oxy
                > should
                > > make plenty of heat for the application. A kit will usually run you
                > > around 20 bucks at your local welding supply, Air liquide, Holox,
                > and
                > > such. Basically just flux and heat cherry red or until the wire
                > flows
                > > and let it cool. The stuff is great for SS, Plain Steel, Copper,
                > > Brass and any combination of them. Does not work for AL. I believe
                > > the tensile strength of the Joint if done properly is around 80,000
                > PSI.
                > > I built a Frank Dehass rifle action with the stuff as was
                > recommended
                > > in the book instructions. Has held up to a few thousand rounds of
                > > Lead 38-55 rounds. Just make sure you want/like what you use it on
                > > because unlike lead free plumbers solder and a propane torch this
                > > stuff is pretty much forever.
                > >
                > > Mason
                > >
                >

                I've tried the whole brazing welding before. I got tired of the stuff
                always cracking and causing all kinds of hell. I've found that
                stainless to stainless is the best way to do it. Spend the right
                amount of money and get it done right if you plan on doing this hobby
                for a long time. I did it and I don't regret it. I now know I will not
                have to get another welding job done in my lifetime because the job
                was done right.

                Just saying....

                Disk
              • rye_junkie1
                ... You are not the only person to say this so I have no doubts that this Cracking Issue happens. However I have never experienced a single issue using the
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 30, 2008
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > > I like to use the Radnor/Harris 45% silver braze kit. Map/Oxy
                  > > should
                  > > > make plenty of heat for the application. A kit will usually run you
                  > > > around 20 bucks at your local welding supply, Air liquide, Holox,
                  > > and
                  > > > such. Basically just flux and heat cherry red or until the wire
                  > > flows
                  > > > and let it cool. The stuff is great for SS, Plain Steel, Copper,
                  > > > Brass and any combination of them. Does not work for AL. I believe
                  > > > the tensile strength of the Joint if done properly is around 80,000
                  > > PSI.
                  > > > I built a Frank Dehass rifle action with the stuff as was
                  > > recommended
                  > > > in the book instructions. Has held up to a few thousand rounds of
                  > > > Lead 38-55 rounds. Just make sure you want/like what you use it on
                  > > > because unlike lead free plumbers solder and a propane torch this
                  > > > stuff is pretty much forever.
                  > > >
                  > > > Mason
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > I've tried the whole brazing welding before. I got tired of the stuff
                  > always cracking and causing all kinds of hell. I've found that
                  > stainless to stainless is the best way to do it. Spend the right
                  > amount of money and get it done right if you plan on doing this hobby
                  > for a long time. I did it and I don't regret it. I now know I will not
                  > have to get another welding job done in my lifetime because the job
                  > was done right.
                  >
                  > Just saying....
                  >
                  > Disk


                  You are not the only person to say this so I have no doubts that this
                  Cracking Issue happens. However I have never experienced a single
                  issue using the product I recommended. On the other hand those Cheap
                  flat rods/sticks that you can get in you local tractor supply that say
                  silver braze are a complete JOKE and nothing but trouble. I called
                  the company that makes these so called Silver rods and they admit that
                  they are only at best 1/2% silver. The product that I use is Cadmium
                  as well as lead free and flows like water even in tight joints. If
                  you make the jump to the more expensive 56% stuff you get the USDA and
                  use for Dairy approval. I have never had a cracking issue on any of
                  the metals I have used it on. Welding Stainless is not without
                  problems either. Correct shielding gas, Purging the inside of the
                  tube and correct filler material are all necessary to do the job
                  correctly to avoid cracking and crystallization. I assume you paid
                  someone to weld your rig. I am not willing to take that chance in
                  these parts. Your argument has merit but I have welded professionally
                  for many years and can say without doubt that DONE RIGHT (huge
                  variable) brazing in most cases is just as good or better than a weld.

                  Mason
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