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Re: [Distillers] Re: MIG Welder

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  • Rob Macrobert
    MIG is also the choice for those of us unwashed masses who can t afford a TIG unit.. ... From: Andrew To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Distillers]
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 26, 2008
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        MIG is also the choice for those of us "unwashed masses" who can't afford a TIG unit..


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Andrew
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Distillers] Re: MIG Welder
      Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:58:46 -0000

      > Mason wrote:
      >
      > So are tig and mig the same welder with
      > different wire?

      TIG is the welding process gentlemen use.

      MIG is the welding process of the unwashed
      masses that enjoy noise and singed hair.

      :D




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    • rye_junkie1
      ... A TIG unit may not be as bad as you think. My home rig is Oxy/Acetylene and a Miller thunderbolt 225 Stick welder that is AC/DC changeable. At the local
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 26, 2008
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Macrobert" <macrobert@...> wrote:
        >
        > MIG is also the choice for those of us "unwashed masses" who can't
        > afford a TIG unit..


        A TIG unit may not be as bad as you think. My home rig is Oxy/Acetylene
        and a Miller thunderbolt 225 Stick welder that is AC/DC changeable.
        At the local welding supply I bought a TIG torch and an adapter that
        allows me to plug it into the welder. Add an argon
        bottle/reg/flowmeter and your good for steel and stainless. Wont do
        AL because you need the High Freq start. For steel and SS you just
        Scratch start like you were stick welding. At the time I had less
        than 200 bucks in the TIG addition.

        Mason
      • Rob Macrobert
        Self shielding flux core wire usually has the + terminal as the work ground for better penetration, standard wire doesn t. BUT, if aluminum welding, you can
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 26, 2008
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          Self shielding flux core wire usually has the "+" terminal as the work ground for better penetration, standard wire doesn't.
          BUT, if aluminum welding, you can use either the "+" or "-" terminal as ground, depends on whether you want a flat weld (deep penetration on thick mat'l) or a wide raised weld (thin material).
          If trying to TIG copper, be aware that a respirator is CRITICAL!! It is possible to TIG it, but it is a pain to do, and VERY, VERY, TOXIC as well.

          Play safe guys,



          One more point.

          > the other difference also is that on a mig --- earth wire goes to -
          and hand piece goes to + on tig earth goes to + and gun goes to -

          While you may be correct with your statement about MIG, this is not so
          for TIG. The TIG process can use DC Electrode positive for extremely
          thin materials. DC Electrode Neg is most commonly use for 1/16" Steel
          and SS and thicker, while Aluminum is done with High frequency AC.

          Mason

          _


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        • Rob Macrobert
          I ve priced out the kits before, and by the time I get set up for TIG work I could just order 4-5 of the Essential Extractors and not worry about getting
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 26, 2008
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            I've priced out the kits before, and by the time I get set up for TIG work I could just order 4-5 of the Essential Extractors and not worry about getting anything welded...
            Locally, the torch assembly runs around $800-1000, and then another $400-600 for a decent 250-300 amp stick machine. It's still cheaper than buying a dedicated TIG box, but I can do stainless work with the MIG and "pretty" it up with the sander/grinder <GR>.

            Cheers,



            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Macrobert" <macrobert@...> wrote:
            >
            > MIG is also the choice for those of us "unwashed masses" who can't
            > afford a TIG unit..

            A TIG unit may not be as bad as you think. My home rig is Oxy/Acetylene
            and a Miller thunderbolt 225 Stick welder that is AC/DC changeable.
            At the local welding supply I bought a TIG torch and an adapter that
            allows me to plug it into the welder. Add an argon
            bottle/reg/flowmeter and your good for steel and stainless. Wont do
            AL because you need the High Freq start. For steel and SS you just
            Scratch start like you were stick welding. At the time I had less
            than 200 bucks in the TIG addition.

            Mason



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          • Frank na
            Mason -- i was not going to goto the absolute finer points of welding - i was keeping it simple and basic for someone that may not have ever done it before -
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 26, 2008
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              Mason  -- i was not going to goto the absolute finer points of welding - i was keeping it simple and basic for someone that may not have ever done it before - i could go on about how essential it is the get amperage correct - how not to contaminate and many other issues that comes with such welding  .... but what would be the point ??? try to confuse the new guy to welding ??  But thank you for trying to make it appear even more complicated to a newby than it is  ......
               
              Boc 
               


               


              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              From: rye_junkie@...
              Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:14:41 +0000
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: MIG Welder


              --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, Frank na <boc1971@... > wrote:
              >
              >
              > HI there -- Mig and tig are 2 different animals
              >
              >
              > Mig and tig use argon ( or gorgon) for sheilding gas , but thats
              where the similarity ends ..
              >
              >
              > Mig uses a continuious wire ,fed through the gun to weld with ( when
              you pull the trigger ) this is great for light fabrication where
              heavy structural properties are not required .. general rule of thumb
              1 inch of weld - 1 tonne holding pressure
              >
              > TIG - its almost simiar to oxy welding ..... that is you have a
              tourch ( your gun ) you strike an arc like you would with a stick
              welder and keep the arc going by keeping it just above the work piece
              your welding - now you can either fuse weld ( use the 2 metals your
              welding to melt together at a seam ) or wire feed - that is introduce
              a small wire into the arc you have going - that arc is hot enough to
              melt the wire you feed in and melt the steel your welding ( only a
              very small section at a time ) I love the tig , i work in food
              industry so use the tig a lot for s/s welding .... ( im a maintenance
              fitter )
              >
              > Tig is ideal for thin sheets of steel - where a tig would be too
              hot and just blow holes
              >
              > the other difference also is that on a mig --- earth wire goes to -
              and hand piece goes to + on tig earth goes to + and gun goes to -
              >
              > hope this helps a little
              >
              > Boc

              Good morning Boc,
              Since this is a technical forum I think I should point out a few things.
              For starters MIG is great for light fabrication but is also used
              extensively in farm and heavy equipment fab as well. Been there, done
              that.
              Also you are very much wrong in your writing of this statement: " or
              wire feed - that is introduce a small wire into the arc you have
              going - that arc is hot enough to melt the wire you feed in and melt
              the steel your welding."
              You NEVER introduce filler material into the Arc or Flame in the
              Welding process. This will almost always result in a "Cold" weld.
              You introduce the filler material into the Molten puddle that the arc
              or torch forms and let it melt the rod. Even if oxy "Brazing" you
              heat the base metal to a point hotter than the brazing rod and let the
              base metal melt the rod.
              These are things you should know if you weld in the food industry.

              Mason




              in your area now! View photos of singles
            • Scott Stanley
              Not sure where you guys are at, but there have been 3, Miller Sync Master 250 s here on Cragis List the last month between $1.8K & $2k..... one even had the
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 26, 2008
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                Not sure where you guys are at, but there have been 3, Miller Sync Master 250's here on Cragis List the last month between $1.8K & $2k..... one even had the water cooled handle...... 
                 
                Scott in AZ/USA

                > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                > From: macrobert@...
                > Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:18:19 -0500
                > Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: MIG Welder
                >
                >
                > I've priced out the kits before, and by the time I get set up for TIG work I could just order 4-5 of the Essential Extractors and not worry about getting anything welded...
                > Locally, the torch assembly runs around $800-1000, and then another $400-600 for a decent 250-300 amp stick machine. It's still cheaper than buying a dedicated TIG box, but I can do stainless work with the MIG and "pretty" it up with the sander/grinder <GR>.
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Macrobert" <macrobert@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > MIG is also the choice for those of us "unwashed masses" who can't
                > > afford a TIG unit..
                >
                > A TIG unit may not be as bad as you think. My home rig is Oxy/Acetylene
                > and a Miller thunderbolt 225 Stick welder that is AC/DC changeable.
                > At the local welding supply I bought a TIG torch and an adapter that
                > allows me to plug it into the welder. Add an argon
                > bottle/reg/flowmeter and your good for steel and stainless. Wont do
                > AL because you need the High Freq start. For steel and SS you just
                > Scratch start like you were stick welding. At the time I had less
                > than 200 bucks in the TIG addition.
                >
                > Mason
                >
                >
                >
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              • Sven Pfitt
                Best to use a pickling solution of 2 parts hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) and one part Vinegar (Acetic Acid, 3%) at room temp. Let the brass part soak till it is
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 27, 2008
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                  Best to use a pickling solution of 2 parts hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)
                  and one part Vinegar (Acetic Acid, 3%) at room temp.

                  Let the brass part soak till it is butter yellow (1-5 minutes
                  usually), and no longer.

                  If you let it go too long the solution turns blue. Dump it and start
                  over.

                  Sven

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Hoskin <eddie_hoskin@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I may be able to help with the treated brass: brass, as a part of
                  it's composition, contains a small percentage of lead.  This lead
                  can, and will, leach out over an extended period of time.  As a
                  solution, you can dip the brass into a H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) and
                  it will remove the lead from the outer layer of the brass,
                  thus "treating" it and making it safer for use.
                  >
                  > Hope that helps,
                  > Eddie
                  >
                  ....snip....
                • mstehelin
                  Does all brass need to be treated? For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water pipes? Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4 brass
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 27, 2008
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                    Does all brass need to be treated?
                    For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water pipes?
                    Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4" brass that might need
                    treatment.
                    Cheers
                    M


                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sven Pfitt" <thegimp98@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Best to use a pickling solution of 2 parts hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)
                    > and one part Vinegar (Acetic Acid, 3%) at room temp.
                    >
                    > Let the brass part soak till it is butter yellow (1-5 minutes
                    > usually), and no longer.
                    >
                    > If you let it go too long the solution turns blue. Dump it and start
                    > over.
                    >
                    > Sven
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Hoskin <eddie_hoskin@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I may be able to help with the treated brass: brass, as a part of
                    > it's composition, contains a small percentage of lead. This lead
                    > can, and will, leach out over an extended period of time. As a
                    > solution, you can dip the brass into a H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) and
                    > it will remove the lead from the outer layer of the brass,
                    > thus "treating" it and making it safer for use.
                    > >
                    > > Hope that helps,
                    > > Eddie
                    > >
                    > ....snip....
                    >
                  • Harry
                    ... In a word, YES. Slainte! regards Harry
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 27, 2008
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                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does all brass need to be treated?
                      > For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water pipes?
                      > Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4" brass that might need
                      > treatment.
                      > Cheers
                      > M


                      In a word, YES.

                      Slainte!
                      regards Harry
                    • mstehelin
                      What about the booze that has been made up till now? Any way of checking the lead content?
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 27, 2008
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                        What about the booze that has been made up till now?
                        Any way of checking the lead content?

                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Does all brass need to be treated?
                        > > For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water pipes?
                        > > Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4" brass that might need
                        > > treatment.
                        > > Cheers
                        > > M
                        >
                        >
                        > In a word, YES.
                        >
                        > Slainte!
                        > regards Harry
                        >
                      • mstehelin
                        After some research on the internet I came up with this: Cleaning Brass Some brewers use brass fittings in conjunction with their wort chillers or other
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 27, 2008
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                          After some research on the internet I came up with this:

                          Cleaning Brass
                          Some brewers use brass fittings in conjunction with their wort
                          chillers or other brewing equipment and are concerned about the lead
                          that is present in brass alloys. A solution of two parts white vinegar
                          to one part hydrogen peroxide (common 3% solution) will remove tarnish
                          and surface lead from brass parts when they are soaked for 5-10
                          minutes at room temperature. The brass will turn a buttery yellow
                          color as it is cleaned. If the solution starts to turn green and the
                          brass darkens, then the parts have been soaking too long and the
                          copper in the brass is beginning to dissolve, exposing more lead. The
                          solution has become contaminated and the part should be re-cleaned in
                          a fresh solution.

                          What that says to me is that if The still has been used regularly the
                          brass should have initially been tarnished but cleaned up with the
                          vapor passing through. So my guess is that there might have been some
                          leaching but that would have been cleaned up in the first few runs.
                          What do you think?
                          Cheers
                          m
                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Does all brass need to be treated?
                          > > For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water pipes?
                          > > Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4" brass that might need
                          > > treatment.
                          > > Cheers
                          > > M
                          >
                          >
                          > In a word, YES.
                          >
                          > Slainte!
                          > regards Harry
                          >
                        • Harry
                          ... vinegar ... tarnish ... The ... in ... the ... some ... I think you ll be fine. You re still here, and you haven t grown any extra body parts. Joking
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 27, 2008
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                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > After some research on the internet I came up with this:
                            >
                            > Cleaning Brass
                            > Some brewers use brass fittings in conjunction with their wort
                            > chillers or other brewing equipment and are concerned about the lead
                            > that is present in brass alloys. A solution of two parts white
                            vinegar
                            > to one part hydrogen peroxide (common 3% solution) will remove
                            tarnish
                            > and surface lead from brass parts when they are soaked for 5-10
                            > minutes at room temperature. The brass will turn a buttery yellow
                            > color as it is cleaned. If the solution starts to turn green and the
                            > brass darkens, then the parts have been soaking too long and the
                            > copper in the brass is beginning to dissolve, exposing more lead.
                            The
                            > solution has become contaminated and the part should be re-cleaned
                            in
                            > a fresh solution.
                            >
                            > What that says to me is that if The still has been used regularly
                            the
                            > brass should have initially been tarnished but cleaned up with the
                            > vapor passing through. So my guess is that there might have been
                            some
                            > leaching but that would have been cleaned up in the first few runs.
                            > What do you think?
                            > Cheers



                            I think you'll be fine. You're still here, and you haven't grown any
                            extra body parts. <G>
                            Joking aside, lead poisoning is a fairly specific disease. If you
                            had it you'd know it. If it were me, I'd still treat the brass bits
                            just to be sure. That way you will be comfortable with running the
                            still & drinking the product. There are lead test kits you can buy,
                            if you're concerned about any existing product you may have around.
                            Plumbing suppliers usually carry them to test potable (drinkable)
                            water.


                            Slainte!
                            regards Harry
                          • burrows206
                            Hi Harry, I m assuming that would also go for clean well tarnished and discoloured brass, or would that already have the protective surface oxidization layer
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 28, 2008
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                              Hi Harry,
                              I'm assuming that would also go for clean well tarnished and
                              discoloured brass, or would that already have the protective surface
                              oxidization layer in place? The item I'm referring to is the
                              internal housing,(vapour conact area) and screw down brass
                              gate/shutter on a 15mm (1/2") brass gate valve
                              Geoff

                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Does all brass need to be treated?
                              > > For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water
                              pipes?
                              > > Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4" brass that might need
                              > > treatment.
                              > > Cheers
                              > > M
                              >
                              >
                              > In a word, YES.
                              >
                              > Slainte!
                              > regards Harry
                              >
                            • mstehelin
                              Speaking of potable water, In my research I found out that galvonized steel water pipes may leach lead too. My house is built in the 50 s and I happen to have
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 28, 2008
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                                Speaking of potable water, In my research I found out that galvonized
                                steel water pipes may leach lead too. My house is built in the 50's
                                and I happen to have these pipes in part of the house. (yay) I'll be
                                looking for those lead test kits for both home and hobby.
                                Cheers
                                M


                                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > After some research on the internet I came up with this:
                                > >
                                > > Cleaning Brass
                                > > Some brewers use brass fittings in conjunction with their wort
                                > > chillers or other brewing equipment and are concerned about the lead
                                > > that is present in brass alloys. A solution of two parts white
                                > vinegar
                                > > to one part hydrogen peroxide (common 3% solution) will remove
                                > tarnish
                                > > and surface lead from brass parts when they are soaked for 5-10
                                > > minutes at room temperature. The brass will turn a buttery yellow
                                > > color as it is cleaned. If the solution starts to turn green and the
                                > > brass darkens, then the parts have been soaking too long and the
                                > > copper in the brass is beginning to dissolve, exposing more lead.
                                > The
                                > > solution has become contaminated and the part should be re-cleaned
                                > in
                                > > a fresh solution.
                                > >
                                > > What that says to me is that if The still has been used regularly
                                > the
                                > > brass should have initially been tarnished but cleaned up with the
                                > > vapor passing through. So my guess is that there might have been
                                > some
                                > > leaching but that would have been cleaned up in the first few runs.
                                > > What do you think?
                                > > Cheers
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I think you'll be fine. You're still here, and you haven't grown any
                                > extra body parts. <G>
                                > Joking aside, lead poisoning is a fairly specific disease. If you
                                > had it you'd know it. If it were me, I'd still treat the brass bits
                                > just to be sure. That way you will be comfortable with running the
                                > still & drinking the product. There are lead test kits you can buy,
                                > if you're concerned about any existing product you may have around.
                                > Plumbing suppliers usually carry them to test potable (drinkable)
                                > water.
                                >
                                >
                                > Slainte!
                                > regards Harry
                                >
                              • Sven Pfitt
                                Oxidation has nothing to do with it. The issue is that lead is added to brass for machinability. It is an alloy. All exposed surfaces will have exposed lead.
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 28, 2008
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                                  Oxidation has nothing to do with it.

                                  The issue is that lead is added to brass for machinability. It is an
                                  alloy. All exposed surfaces will have exposed lead. Best to pickle it
                                  and then don't worry.

                                  Theoretically, if it is not in the vapor path (ie in the pot where it
                                  wont' get carried over in the vapor) it won't matter. I'd treat
                                  everything. H2O2 is cheap, so is white vinegar.

                                  Sven

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206" <jeffrey.burrows@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Harry,
                                  > I'm assuming that would also go for clean well tarnished and
                                  > discoloured brass, or would that already have the protective surface
                                  > oxidization layer in place? The item I'm referring to is the
                                  > internal housing,(vapour conact area) and screw down brass
                                  > gate/shutter on a 15mm (1/2") brass gate valve
                                  > Geoff
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Does all brass need to be treated?
                                  > > > For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water
                                  > pipes?
                                  > > > Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4" brass that might need
                                  > > > treatment.
                                  > > > Cheers
                                  > > > M
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > In a word, YES.
                                  > >
                                  > > Slainte!
                                  > > regards Harry
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • burrows206
                                  Hi Sven , Sort of guessed that I just couldn t be bothered taking it apart to pickle them. Having said that its been like that for a few years now with no
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Aug 29, 2008
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                                    Hi Sven ,

                                         Sort of guessed that I just couldn't be bothered taking it apart to pickle them.  Having said that its been like that for a few years now with no really noticeable or discernable side effects that I'm aware of.  Everything seems normal enough I only have an extra head growing out from under my armpit so the side effects are not that bad (I just wouldn't like any abnormal things to creep up on me without me noticing them) but I do have to say it does smell a bit bad at times though especially just before shower time.  Would that have anything to do with lead poisoning? :D:)

                                    Geoff   


                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Sven Pfitt" <thegimp98@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Oxidation has nothing to do with it.
                                    >
                                    > The issue is that lead is added to brass for machinability. It is an
                                    > alloy. All exposed surfaces will have exposed lead. Best to pickle it
                                    > and then don't worry.
                                    >
                                    > Theoretically, if it is not in the vapor path (ie in the pot where it
                                    > wont' get carried over in the vapor) it won't matter. I'd treat
                                    > everything. H2O2 is cheap, so is white vinegar.
                                    >
                                    > Sven
                                    >
                                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "burrows206" jeffrey.burrows@
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Harry,
                                    > > I'm assuming that would also go for clean well tarnished and
                                    > > discoloured brass, or would that already have the protective surface
                                    > > oxidization layer in place? The item I'm referring to is the
                                    > > internal housing,(vapour conact area) and screw down brass
                                    > > gate/shutter on a 15mm (1/2") brass gate valve
                                    > > Geoff
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Harry" <gnikomson2000@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mstehelin" <mstehelin@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Does all brass need to be treated?
                                    > > > > For example the brass fittings used in regular house hold water
                                    > > pipes?
                                    > > > > Because if so I have about 3 pieces of 3/4" brass that might need
                                    > > > > treatment.
                                    > > > > Cheers
                                    > > > > M
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > In a word, YES.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Slainte!
                                    > > > regards Harry
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >

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