Expand Messages
• Hmmm.. that s quite impressive. I don t even come close to those results these days (though I used to get better results half a year ago, but not as good as
Message 1 of 9 , Jan 31, 2002
Hmmm.. that's quite impressive. I don't even come close to those results
these days (though I used to get better results half a year ago, but not
as good as yours).
I would estimate that I approximately get around 50% of the supposedly
available alcohol.
I assume that the mash is 15-20% as I use the specified amount of sugar
for a 20% mash (using a 20% turbo) and run it until it reads around
.990.
I suspected that there might be a leak in the still or something like
that, but I did not find any.
If you subtract the heads and tails from those 3 liters, how much is
there left? Do you keep and use 3 liters or is that the total amount you
take out from the still?
Any ideas what could be going wrong?

/Lars

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony & Elle Ackland [mailto:Tony.Ackland@...]
Sent: den 1 februari 2002 20:40
To: 'Distillers newsgroup'
Subject: RE: [Distillers] Question about yield

Lars,

> How many liters of pure ethanol should you expect to get from say 20
liters of both 15 and 20% mash?
> What do you get?

I usually get about 95% of the available alcohol out,

eg 20 L x 15% alcohol = 3 L pure alcohol to be had.
If my still makes it at 96% purity, then there would be around 3/0.96=
3.1L,
but I only collect about 95% of that, = 3L

How sure are you that the wash was up to 15-20% ?

Tony

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• I use 8 kg of sugar for 25 liters of mash, so according to your theoretical calculation I should be getting around 8*610 = 4.8 liters, which adds up pretty
Message 2 of 9 , Feb 1, 2002
I use 8 kg of sugar for 25 liters of mash, so according to your
theoretical calculation I should be getting around 8*610 = 4.8 liters,
which adds up pretty well to upwards of 20%.
Of course there will be losses, but is it reasonable to get around a 50%
loss?
If I really push the distillation going as high in temperature as I
possibly can I probably could get somewhere around 2.5-3 liters of
output from those 25 liters. Doesn't sound too good does it?
And the mash has to be pretty close to 20% as the density readings are
low and there is basically no sugar left in it.
Or could there be a leak in the fermentation vessel perhaps? So that the
yeast has access to oxygen and thereby ferments the sugar to only water
and carbondioxide? I do not think that this is the case, but it could be
a possibility, right?

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony & Elle Ackland [mailto:Tony.Ackland@...]
Sent: den 2 februari 2002 01:38
To: 'Distillers newsgroup'
Subject: RE: [Distillers] Question about yield

> I assume that the mash is 15-20% as I use the specified amount of
sugar
> for a 20% mash (using a 20% turbo) and run it until it reads around
> .990.

Double check the amount of sugar they ask you to use. Just because the
will
get you there.

Eg : the max yield (theoretical) you can get off sugar is 480 g per 1kg
of
sugar. 480g = 610 mL

Still Spirits Turbos
"Turbo" - pack is grey/purple on gold background
recommend 6kg for 25L. This will only make a max of 6 x 610 = 3.6 L
pure
alcohol, which as 3.6/25 = 14.5%

"Turbo Extra" - blue pack
recommend 8kg for 25L. 8 x 610 = 4.9L; 4.9/25 = 19.5%

Interesting enough, neither pack actually says what % to expect from it.

But there will always be some other losses. Not all the sugar may
ferment;
some of it goes into growing more yeast too.

> I suspected that there might be a leak in the still or something like
> that, but I did not find any.
> If you subtract the heads and tails from those 3 liters, how much is
> there left? Do you keep and use 3 liters or is that the total amount
you
> take out from the still?

The heads are < 100 mL, and the tails are usually < 500 mL. I collect
the
tails all the way form 82C up to about 96C - eg at that stage they're
only
about 35%. So the collected good stuff is say around 2.8L if I'm
expecting
3L, but I figure the other 0.2L I'll get next time from the recycled
tails.
The tails get recycled into the next batch, the heads are thrown away.

> Any ideas what could be going wrong?

Do you know the starting OG of the wash ?
How long do you run the still for, what heat input,
what % do you collect at,
when & how do you decide to finish a run ?

Tony

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
• ... Double check the amount of sugar they ask you to use. Just because the advertisment says it can do XX%, doesnt always mean their instructions will get you
Message 3 of 9 , Feb 1, 2002
> I assume that the mash is 15-20% as I use the specified amount of sugar
> for a 20% mash (using a 20% turbo) and run it until it reads around
> .990.

Double check the amount of sugar they ask you to use. Just because the
advertisment says it can do XX%, doesnt always mean their instructions will
get you there.

Eg : the max yield (theoretical) you can get off sugar is 480 g per 1kg of
sugar. 480g = 610 mL

Still Spirits Turbos
"Turbo" - pack is grey/purple on gold background
recommend 6kg for 25L. This will only make a max of 6 x 610 = 3.6 L pure
alcohol, which as 3.6/25 = 14.5%

"Turbo Extra" - blue pack
recommend 8kg for 25L. 8 x 610 = 4.9L; 4.9/25 = 19.5%

Interesting enough, neither pack actually says what % to expect from it.

But there will always be some other losses. Not all the sugar may ferment;
some of it goes into growing more yeast too.

> I suspected that there might be a leak in the still or something like
> that, but I did not find any.
> If you subtract the heads and tails from those 3 liters, how much is
> there left? Do you keep and use 3 liters or is that the total amount you
> take out from the still?

The heads are < 100 mL, and the tails are usually < 500 mL. I collect the
tails all the way form 82C up to about 96C - eg at that stage they're only
about 35%. So the collected good stuff is say around 2.8L if I'm expecting
3L, but I figure the other 0.2L I'll get next time from the recycled tails.
The tails get recycled into the next batch, the heads are thrown away.

> Any ideas what could be going wrong?

Do you know the starting OG of the wash ?
How long do you run the still for, what heat input,
what % do you collect at,
when & how do you decide to finish a run ?

Tony
• And now you are talking about 100% spirits? Ok, then there must be something wrong with my process, time for some evaluation. /Lars ... From: Pete Sayers
Message 4 of 9 , Feb 3, 2002
And now you are talking about 100% spirits?
Ok, then there must be something wrong with my process, time for some
evaluation.

/Lars

-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Sayers [mailto:brubarn@...]
Sent: den 3 februari 2002 22:37
To: Lars Norberg
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Question about yield

Lars, with a Still Spirits Turbo Extra, the rule of thumb, when using a
"Fractionating Column Still", take off half in litres, the weight of
sugar
in the wash,ie if you have used 8 kgs sugar, then take off 4 litres of
spirit.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lars Norberg" <lano1701@...>
To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 1:14 AM
Subject: RE: [Distillers] Question about yield

> I use 8 kg of sugar for 25 liters of mash, so according to your
> theoretical calculation I should be getting around 8*610 = 4.8 liters,
> which adds up pretty well to upwards of 20%.
> Of course there will be losses, but is it reasonable to get around a
50%
> loss?
> If I really push the distillation going as high in temperature as I
> possibly can I probably could get somewhere around 2.5-3 liters of
> output from those 25 liters. Doesn't sound too good does it?
> And the mash has to be pretty close to 20% as the density readings are
> low and there is basically no sugar left in it.
> Or could there be a leak in the fermentation vessel perhaps? So that
the
> yeast has access to oxygen and thereby ferments the sugar to only
water
> and carbondioxide? I do not think that this is the case, but it could
be
> a possibility, right?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony & Elle Ackland
[mailto:Tony.Ackland@...]
> Sent: den 2 februari 2002 01:38
> To: 'Distillers newsgroup'
> Subject: RE: [Distillers] Question about yield
>
> > I assume that the mash is 15-20% as I use the specified amount of
> sugar
> > for a 20% mash (using a 20% turbo) and run it until it reads around
> > .990.
>
> Double check the amount of sugar they ask you to use. Just because
the
> advertisment says it can do XX%, doesnt always mean their instructions
> will
> get you there.
>
> Eg : the max yield (theoretical) you can get off sugar is 480 g per
1kg
> of
> sugar. 480g = 610 mL
>
> Still Spirits Turbos
> "Turbo" - pack is grey/purple on gold background
> recommend 6kg for 25L. This will only make a max of 6 x 610 = 3.6 L
> pure
> alcohol, which as 3.6/25 = 14.5%
>
> "Turbo Extra" - blue pack
> recommend 8kg for 25L. 8 x 610 = 4.9L; 4.9/25 = 19.5%
>
> Interesting enough, neither pack actually says what % to expect from
it.
>
> But there will always be some other losses. Not all the sugar may
> ferment;
> some of it goes into growing more yeast too.
>
>
>
> > I suspected that there might be a leak in the still or something
like
> > that, but I did not find any.
> > If you subtract the heads and tails from those 3 liters, how much is
> > there left? Do you keep and use 3 liters or is that the total amount
> you
> > take out from the still?
>
> The heads are < 100 mL, and the tails are usually < 500 mL. I collect
> the
> tails all the way form 82C up to about 96C - eg at that stage they're
> only
> about 35%. So the collected good stuff is say around 2.8L if I'm
> expecting
> 3L, but I figure the other 0.2L I'll get next time from the recycled
> tails.
> The tails get recycled into the next batch, the heads are thrown away.
>
> > Any ideas what could be going wrong?
>
> Do you know the starting OG of the wash ?
> How long do you run the still for, what heat input,
> what % do you collect at,
> when & how do you decide to finish a run ?
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
• ... it to drop enough SG at the end. If half the sugar was becoming yeast (very remote chance), then you d probably notice it from the shear volume of
Message 5 of 9 , Feb 3, 2002
>Looks like you're making the alcohol ok - using enough sugar & getting
it >to drop enough SG at the end. If half the sugar was becoming yeast
(very >remote chance), then you'd probably notice it from the shear
volume of >yeast remaining at the end. But I'm guessing your yeast
sediment is only >1-2cm thick (normal) ?

Hehe, yeah, I would guess it is about normal. Absolutely not more than 1
cm sediment when the rest of it is absolutely clear. This is a possible
place of some loss though, as I opened the fermenter lid once every
other day to make a measurement of how far in the process I was, and to
make a comparison between the different strands of yeasts that I used,
so some oxygen may have been available and thereby letting the yeast
grow instead of producing alcohol, but it shouldn't have happened to any
large extent.

>> If I really push the distillation going as high in temperature as I
>> possibly can I probably could get somewhere around 2.5-3 liters of
>> output from those 25 liters. Doesn't sound too good does it?

>No point ruining the quality though.

No, I don't use the stuff, it was just to see how much non-water stuff
there was in the mash. And it still wasn't much.

>Have you checked the still for vapour leaks ? Smell/hear anything ?

Yeah, I did a comparison between what I got out + what was left in the
still, and it added up to what I put in.

>Could the distillate somehow not be dripping into the collection jar
but >running somewhere else ? (gees - reckon you'd spot a litre or so
puddle on >the floor !)

No, not a chance :)
And as I did the out vs in check, there just isn't more alcohol in the
mash than what I get out.

Hmm... the mystery continues :)

/Lars
• Ok, so around 4 liters of 92% alcohol from 8 kg of sugar. Well, I m still pretty far below, but not by more than perhaps 1 liter though. But 4 liters of 92%
Message 6 of 9 , Feb 3, 2002
Ok, so around 4 liters of 92% alcohol from 8 kg of sugar.
Well, I'm still pretty far below, but not by more than perhaps 1 liter
though.
But 4 liters of 92% alcohol is a pretty bad result also, as the
mash then only would be barely 15%, and it should be closer to 20 than
that.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Sayers [mailto:brubarn@...]
Sent: den 4 februari 2002 22:22
To: Lars Norberg
Subject: Re: [Distillers] Question about yield

Not 100% but bloody close, 92-92% average.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lars Norberg" <lano1701@...>
To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 1:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Distillers] Question about yield

> And now you are talking about 100% spirits?
> Ok, then there must be something wrong with my process, time for some
> evaluation.
>
> /Lars
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pete Sayers [mailto:brubarn@...]
> Sent: den 3 februari 2002 22:37
> To: Lars Norberg
> Subject: Re: [Distillers] Question about yield
>
> Lars, with a Still Spirits Turbo Extra, the rule of thumb, when using
a
> "Fractionating Column Still", take off half in litres, the weight of
> sugar
> in the wash,ie if you have used 8 kgs sugar, then take off 4 litres of
> spirit.
> Pete
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lars Norberg" <lano1701@...>
> To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 1:14 AM
> Subject: RE: [Distillers] Question about yield
>
>
> > I use 8 kg of sugar for 25 liters of mash, so according to your
> > theoretical calculation I should be getting around 8*610 = 4.8
liters,
> > which adds up pretty well to upwards of 20%.
> > Of course there will be losses, but is it reasonable to get around a
> 50%
> > loss?
> > If I really push the distillation going as high in temperature as I
> > possibly can I probably could get somewhere around 2.5-3 liters of
> > output from those 25 liters. Doesn't sound too good does it?
> > And the mash has to be pretty close to 20% as the density readings
are
> > low and there is basically no sugar left in it.
> > Or could there be a leak in the fermentation vessel perhaps? So that
> the
> > yeast has access to oxygen and thereby ferments the sugar to only
> water
> > and carbondioxide? I do not think that this is the case, but it
could
> be
> > a possibility, right?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tony & Elle Ackland
> [mailto:Tony.Ackland@...]
> > Sent: den 2 februari 2002 01:38
> > To: 'Distillers newsgroup'
> > Subject: RE: [Distillers] Question about yield
> >
> > > I assume that the mash is 15-20% as I use the specified amount of
> > sugar
> > > for a 20% mash (using a 20% turbo) and run it until it reads
around
> > > .990.
> >
> > Double check the amount of sugar they ask you to use. Just because
> the
> > advertisment says it can do XX%, doesnt always mean their
instructions
> > will
> > get you there.
> >
> > Eg : the max yield (theoretical) you can get off sugar is 480 g per
> 1kg
> > of
> > sugar. 480g = 610 mL
> >
> > Still Spirits Turbos
> > "Turbo" - pack is grey/purple on gold background
> > recommend 6kg for 25L. This will only make a max of 6 x 610 = 3.6 L
> > pure
> > alcohol, which as 3.6/25 = 14.5%
> >
> > "Turbo Extra" - blue pack
> > recommend 8kg for 25L. 8 x 610 = 4.9L; 4.9/25 = 19.5%
> >
> > Interesting enough, neither pack actually says what % to expect from
> it.
> >
> > But there will always be some other losses. Not all the sugar may
> > ferment;
> > some of it goes into growing more yeast too.
> >
> >
> >
> > > I suspected that there might be a leak in the still or something
> like
> > > that, but I did not find any.
> > > If you subtract the heads and tails from those 3 liters, how much
is
> > > there left? Do you keep and use 3 liters or is that the total
amount
> > you
> > > take out from the still?
> >
> > The heads are < 100 mL, and the tails are usually < 500 mL. I
collect
> > the
> > tails all the way form 82C up to about 96C - eg at that stage
they're
> > only
> > about 35%. So the collected good stuff is say around 2.8L if I'm
> > expecting
> > 3L, but I figure the other 0.2L I'll get next time from the recycled
> > tails.
> > The tails get recycled into the next batch, the heads are thrown
away.
> >
> > > Any ideas what could be going wrong?
> >
> > Do you know the starting OG of the wash ?
> > How long do you run the still for, what heat input,
> > what % do you collect at,
> > when & how do you decide to finish a run ?
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
• ... No - sounds like something is going wrong. Looks like you re making the alcohol ok - using enough sugar & getting it to drop enough SG at the end. If half
Message 7 of 9 , Feb 4, 2002
> Of course there will be losses, but is it reasonable to get around a
> 50% loss?

No - sounds like something is going wrong.

Looks like you're making the alcohol ok - using enough sugar & getting it to drop enough SG at the end. If half the sugar was becoming yeast (very remote chance), then you'd probably notice it from the shear volume of yeast remaining at the end. But I'm guessing your yeast sediment is only 1-2cm thick (normal) ?

> If I really push the distillation going as high in temperature as I
> possibly can I probably could get somewhere around 2.5-3 liters of
> output from those 25 liters. Doesn't sound too good does it?

No point ruining the quality though.

Have you checked the still for vapour leaks ? Smell/hear anything ?

Could the distillate somehow not be dripping into the collection jar but running somewhere else ? (gees - reckon you'd spot a litre or so puddle on the floor !)

Tony
Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.