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Re:Heat Control

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  • Sherman
    This is your answer. http://home.howstuffworks.com/dimmer-switch2.htm ... shifting????? Believe u need a Ferrite cored spool ????? 6KW @ 240E Tri, what is
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 6, 2008
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      This is your answer. http://home.howstuffworks.com/dimmer-switch2.htm
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Bill Williams <vipond50@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi
      > Interesting
      > So U removed the Choke...... How does the Dimmer control the Phase
      shifting????? Believe u need a Ferrite cored spool ????? 6KW @
      240E Tri, what is the spec # ?
      > Interesting i will have to give this one a go.
      > BTW Thanks to all for the input relating to the controller.
      > All The Best
      > Bill
      >
      > --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Firefox <foxyfoxy50@...> wrote:
      > From: Firefox <foxyfoxy50@...>
      > Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 3:19 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I use a modified light dimmer and without getting technical it
      > appears to be linear. I removed the low wattage choke and replaced
      the Triac
      > with a component that will handle 6KW at 240V. Mounted the whole lot
      in a
      > really heavy Aluminium case which also serves as a heat sink for the
      Triac.
      >
      > As always please do not attempt this if you are not
      > qualified to work with high voltage electrics.
      >
      > Hope this helps.
      >
      > Bob.
      >
    • hllrsr@csolve.net
      Thanks for the info, that tells me that I have a problem with my rig somewhere. 4L of mash @300 watts in an insulated boiler should take APPROX 60 min to heat
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 6, 2008
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        Thanks for the info, that tells me that I have a problem with my rig somewhere.
        4L of mash @300 watts in an insulated boiler should take APPROX 60 min to heat up, my rough estimate of  300W on my dimmer takes between 35-90 min to heat up depending on the ABV of the wash.
        Of course, the ABV probably has not much to do with it, as I've only tried 4 runs while setting the dimmer, for all I know the damn weather's affecting it more.
        I'll see if I can borrow a scope to find out what's going on.

        ATB,
        Iain

        Firefox wrote:

        I use a modified light dimmer and without getting technical it appears to be linear. I removed the low wattage choke and replaced the Triac with a component that will handle 6KW at 240V. Mounted the whole lot in a really heavy Aluminium case which also serves as a heat sink for the Triac.

        As always please do not attempt this if you are not qualified to work with high voltage electrics.

        Hope this helps.

        Bob.


      • Bill Williams
        Thanks Sherman Dah.... Must have been thinking of a different CKT. All The Best Bill ... From: Sherman Subject: [Distillers]
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 6, 2008
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          Thanks Sherman
          Dah.... Must have been thinking of a different CKT.

          All The Best
          Bill

          --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Sherman <pintoshine@...> wrote:
          From: Sherman <pintoshine@...>
          Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 12:00 PM

          This is your answer. http://home. howstuffworks. com/dimmer- switch2.htm
          --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, Bill Williams <vipond50@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > Hi
          > Interesting
          > So U removed the Choke...... How does the Dimmer control the Phase
          shifting???? ? Believe u need a Ferrite cored spool ????? 6KW @
          240E Tri, what is the spec # ?
          > Interesting i will have to give this one a go.
          > BTW Thanks to all for the input relating to the controller.
          > All The Best
          > Bill
          >
          > --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Firefox <foxyfoxy50@ ...> wrote:
          > From: Firefox <foxyfoxy50@ ...>
          > Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
          > To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 3:19 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I use a modified light dimmer and without getting technical it
          > appears to be linear. I removed the low wattage choke and replaced
          the Triac
          > with a component that will handle 6KW at 240V. Mounted the whole lot
          in a
          > really heavy Aluminium case which also serves as a heat sink for the
          Triac.
          >
          > As always please do not attempt this if you are not
          > qualified to work with high voltage electrics.
          >
          > Hope this helps.
          >
          > Bob.
          >


        • Dulcet Brewer
          Hi Bill/Bob et al.   One specific element that s been left out of the discussion so far is the fact that any power control circuit can be made to conform to
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 8, 2008
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            Hi Bill/Bob et al.
             
            One specific element that's been left out of the discussion so far is the fact that any power control circuit can be made to conform to any required load characteristic - simply by changing the function of the variable resistor and/or the capacitor that forms the RC element. 
             
            Assuming we are using a purely resistive load (and a heating element should be) then a
            LINEAR pot(entiometer) will cause the power output of the thyristor/triac to follow the rotary position of the slider. ie 1/4 of the slider's rotation angle = 1/4 power etc.  This also assumes the capacitor has been sized correctly. 
             
            However if the load is not purely resistive (ie there is some inductive or capacitive effect) then a logarithmic pot will be needed to mimic the effect of linearity.  This circuit would also require a substatntial amount of design work to match the R/C network to the non-linearity of the load. 
            Hope that muddies the waters further, but the real answer to the original question is that if the load is ONLY a heating element, and if the power output starts at 1 end of the rotation of the slider and gets to full output at the other end of the slider, then it is probably linear.  A good way to roughly evaluate this is to just use a 60 watt light bulb as a load, and slowly wind the pot back and forth.    
             
            DulcetBrewer
            Perth, Western Australia
             
            Measure, once or twice - cut: mostly.


            --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Bill Williams <vipond50@...> wrote:
            From: Bill Williams <vipond50@...>
            Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 5:17 PM

            Thanks Sherman
            Dah.... Must have been thinking of a different CKT.

            All The Best
            Bill

            --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Sherman <pintoshine@artisan- distiller. org> wrote:
            From: Sherman <pintoshine@artisan- distiller. org>
            Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
            To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 12:00 PM

            This is your answer. http://home. howstuffworks. com/dimmer- switch2.htm
            --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, Bill Williams <vipond50@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > Hi
            > Interesting
            > So U removed the Choke...... How does the Dimmer control the Phase
            shifting???? ? Believe u need a Ferrite cored spool ????? 6KW @
            240E Tri, what is the spec # ?
            > Interesting i will have to give this one a go.
            > BTW Thanks to all for the input relating to the controller.
            > All The Best
            > Bill
            >
            > --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Firefox <foxyfoxy50@ ...> wrote:
            > From: Firefox <foxyfoxy50@ ...>
            > Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
            > To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
            > Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 3:19 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I use a modified light dimmer and without getting technical it
            > appears to be linear. I removed the low wattage choke and replaced
            the Triac
            > with a component that will handle 6KW at 240V. Mounted the whole lot
            in a
            > really heavy Aluminium case which also serves as a heat sink for the
            Triac.
            >
            > As always please do not attempt this if you are not
            > qualified to work with high voltage electrics.
            >
            > Hope this helps.
            >
            > Bob.
            >



          • Hllrsr
            Thanks for the explanation. I managed to borrow a friend s scope and found out what why the output from the dimmer made no sense The damn dimmer was bad. The
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 8, 2008
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              Thanks for the explanation.
              I managed to borrow a friend's scope and found out what why the output from the dimmer made no sense

              The damn dimmer was bad.

              The new one is working fine, and using the calculator on Tony's site as a rough guideline, the control was easy to mark.
              Very time consuming to compare (I did it at 4 different settings), but good enough for what I'm doing with it.

              Thanks again guys.




              Dulcet Brewer wrote:

              One specific element that's been left out of the discussion so far is the fact that any power control circuit can be made to conform to any required load characteristic - simply by changing the function of the variable resistor and/or the capacitor that forms the RC element. 
               
              Assuming we are using a purely resistive load (and a heating element should be) then a
              LINEAR pot(entiometer) will cause the power output of the thyristor/triac to follow the rotary position of the slider. ie 1/4 of the slider's rotation angle = 1/4 power etc.  This also assumes the capacitor has been sized correctly. 
               
              However if the load is not purely resistive (ie there is some inductive or capacitive effect) then a logarithmic pot will be needed to mimic the effect of linearity.  This circuit would also require a substatntial amount of design work to match the R/C network to the non-linearity of the load. 
              Hope that muddies the waters further, but the real answer to the original question is that if the load is ONLY a heating element, and if the power output starts at 1 end of the rotation of the slider and gets to full output at the other end of the slider, then it is probably linear.  A good way to roughly evaluate this is to just use a 60 watt light bulb as a load, and slowly wind the pot back and forth.    
               
              DulcetBrewer
              Perth, Western Australia
               
              Measure, once or twice - cut: mostly.

            • Bob
              think this thread maybe coming to an end but before it does I m sure the info on the Triac I used maybe useful, see this link for Data sheet: -
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 9, 2008
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                think this thread maybe coming to an end but before it does I'm sure
                the info on the Triac I used maybe useful, see this link for Data
                sheet: - http://tinyurl.com/656t6z I know this component is probably
                overkill but for the price of the component, the use and abuse it will
                encounter, heat etc. I thought why not the best. I do find the
                potentiometer could be upgraded as the case obviously becomes quite
                warm and effects the cheap commercial potentiometer fitted, (plastic
                shaft etc. although it has lasted several years.

                Re- the choke issue, I assumed it was present just for radio
                interference (please correct me if I'm wrong), I just removed and
                bridged it. As most communication these days are digital I couldn't
                see a problem especially as the unit is only used probably once a
                month for 3 hours, at the most.

                Hope this has been useful and any feedback / knowledge will be
                gratefully received.

                I'm sure non of us are to proud to learn from others J

                Here to help (if I can).

                Bob.
              • Bill Williams
                Thanks Bob Funny i was looking t the same Tri.... u say several years of operation... not bad for a cheap old pot. Is the value of the pot a 500 K ? I promise
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 9, 2008
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                  Thanks Bob
                  Funny i was looking t the same Tri.... u say several years of operation... not bad for a cheap old pot. Is the value of the pot a 500 K ?
                  I promise this is my last question.
                  All my Best
                  Bill


                  --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Bob <foxyfoxy50@...> wrote:
                  From: Bob <foxyfoxy50@...>
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 7:56 AM

                  think this thread maybe coming to an end but before it does I'm sure
                  the info on the Triac I used maybe useful, see this link for Data
                  sheet: - http://tinyurl. com/656t6z I know this component is probably
                  overkill but for the price of the component, the use and abuse it will
                  encounter, heat etc. I thought why not the best. I do find the
                  potentiometer could be upgraded as the case obviously becomes quite
                  warm and effects the cheap commercial potentiometer fitted, (plastic
                  shaft etc. although it has lasted several years.

                  Re- the choke issue, I assumed it was present just for radio
                  interference (please correct me if I'm wrong), I just removed and
                  bridged it. As most communication these days are digital I couldn't
                  see a problem especially as the unit is only used probably once a
                  month for 3 hours, at the most.

                  Hope this has been useful and any feedback / knowledge will be
                  gratefully received.

                  I'm sure non of us are to proud to learn from others J

                  Here to help (if I can).

                  Bob.


                • Trid
                  ... For what it s worth, I got the fixin s for 3 complete 30 amp triac controllers from digikey.com for under $30. Even if it doesn t work for that long,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 9, 2008
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                    --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Bill Williams <vipond50@...> wrote:
                    > Thanks Bob
                    > Funny i was looking t the same Tri.... u say several years of
                    > operation... not bad for a cheap old pot. Is the value of the pot a 500 K >
                    > I promise this is my last question.
                    > All my Best
                    > Bill

                    For what it's worth, I got the fixin's for 3 complete 30 amp triac controllers from digikey.com for under $30. Even if it doesn't work for that long, replacing it (subject, of course, to one's inclination to tinker) isn't that expensive. Especially if you consider that it may only be one component that fails and needs replacing. At which point, buy a component rated at a higher power and keep on chuggin'.

                    I will at least clarify that I haven't taken the time to assemble my rig, but at least that's my theory. Since I now have an outbuilding, I can tinker a little harder and messier because SWMBO will no longer have a conniption when I fire up the mapp torch in the kitchen :) As such, I'll have to test my theory here soon.

                    Cheers,
                    Trid
                  • Sherman
                    SWMBO = Sherman LMAO :) ... a 500 K ... controllers from digikey.com for under $30. Even if it doesn t work for that long, replacing it (subject, of course,
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 9, 2008
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                      SWMBO = Sherman LMAO :)

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Bill Williams <vipond50@...> wrote:
                      > > Thanks Bob
                      > > Funny i was looking t the same Tri.... u say several years of
                      > > operation... not bad for a cheap old pot. Is the value of the pot
                      a 500 K >
                      > > I promise this is my last question.
                      > > All my Best
                      > > Bill
                      >
                      > For what it's worth, I got the fixin's for 3 complete 30 amp triac
                      controllers from digikey.com for under $30. Even if it doesn't work
                      for that long, replacing it (subject, of course, to one's inclination
                      to tinker) isn't that expensive. Especially if you consider that it
                      may only be one component that fails and needs replacing. At which
                      point, buy a component rated at a higher power and keep on chuggin'.
                      >
                      > I will at least clarify that I haven't taken the time to assemble my
                      rig, but at least that's my theory. Since I now have an outbuilding,
                      I can tinker a little harder and messier because SWMBO will no longer
                      have a conniption when I fire up the mapp torch in the kitchen :) As
                      such, I'll have to test my theory here soon.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Trid
                      >
                    • Dulcet Brewer
                      Hi Bob.   Yes, the choke would have been purely for RFI suppression - PLEASE don t let Yodar know you bridged it.  He will have a hernia. (He s hambiased!)
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 11, 2008
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                        Hi Bob.
                         
                        Yes, the choke would have been purely for RFI suppression - PLEASE don't let Yodar know you bridged it.  He will have a hernia. (He's hambiased!)
                         
                        The pot should NOT need to be a power device.  If the circuit is designed properly, a standard 100-500K 1 watt device will work perfectly
                         
                        As an aside, I have found that back-to-back thyristors are much more reliable than a single triac.  It means the circuit is fractionally more complicated ie 2 diacs instead of 1 for reliable triggering, but high wattage tryristors are substantially cheaper than equiv triacs, so there is an offset.
                         
                        Love the ref to 1 of my favourite TV chars - Rumpo himself!  Fortunately my own SWMBO is a scotch drinker.
                         
                        DulcetBrewer
                        Perth, Western Australia
                         
                        Measure, once or twice - cut: mostly.


                        --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Bob <foxyfoxy50@...> wrote:
                        From: Bob <foxyfoxy50@...>
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 7:56 AM

                        think this thread maybe coming to an end but before it does I'm sure
                        the info on the Triac I used maybe useful, see this link for Data
                        sheet: - http://tinyurl. com/656t6z I know this component is probably
                        overkill but for the price of the component, the use and abuse it will
                        encounter, heat etc. I thought why not the best. I do find the
                        potentiometer could be upgraded as the case obviously becomes quite
                        warm and effects the cheap commercial potentiometer fitted, (plastic
                        shaft etc. although it has lasted several years.

                        Re- the choke issue, I assumed it was present just for radio
                        interference (please correct me if I'm wrong), I just removed and
                        bridged it. As most communication these days are digital I couldn't
                        see a problem especially as the unit is only used probably once a
                        month for 3 hours, at the most.

                        Hope this has been useful and any feedback / knowledge will be
                        gratefully received.

                        I'm sure non of us are to proud to learn from others J

                        Here to help (if I can).

                        Bob.


                      • Sherman
                        Just a few notes from experience. The most reliable setup is cascade alternistors. I have built dozens of these capable of 9KW and yet to have a single
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 11, 2008
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                          Just a few notes from experience.
                          The most reliable setup is cascade alternistors. I have built dozens
                          of these capable of 9KW and yet to have a single failure.
                          This reliability comes from the predetermined limit resister that
                          drives the first alternistor in the cascade. Is also allows a simple 3
                          component trigger because of the sensitivity of the first alternistor.
                          The ability to drive a inductive loads without a snubber circuit is an
                          inherent attribute of the alternistor and is a bonus but not needed
                          with resistive heating elements. Larger coiled heating element can
                          have enough inductance to cause a thyristor or triac to not switch off
                          properly.

                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dulcet Brewer <dulcetbrewer@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Bob.
                          >
                          > Yes, the choke would have been purely for RFI suppression - PLEASE
                          don't let Yodar know you bridged it. He will have a hernia. (He's
                          hambiased!)
                          >
                          > The pot should NOT need to be a power device. If the circuit is
                          designed properly, a standard 100-500K 1 watt device will work perfectly
                          >
                          > As an aside, I have found that back-to-back thyristors are much more
                          reliable than a single triac. It means the circuit is fractionally
                          more complicated ie 2 diacs instead of 1 for reliable triggering, but
                          high wattage tryristors are substantially cheaper than equiv triacs,
                          so there is an offset.
                          >
                          > Love the ref to 1 of my favourite TV chars - Rumpo himself!
                          Fortunately my own SWMBO is a scotch drinker.
                          >
                          >
                          > DulcetBrewer
                          > Perth, Western Australia
                          >
                          > Measure, once or twice - cut: mostly.
                          >
                          > --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Bob <foxyfoxy50@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: Bob <foxyfoxy50@...>
                          > Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
                          > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 7:56 AM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > think this thread maybe coming to an end but before it does I'm sure
                          > the info on the Triac I used maybe useful, see this link for Data
                          > sheet: - http://tinyurl. com/656t6z I know this component is probably
                          > overkill but for the price of the component, the use and abuse it will
                          > encounter, heat etc. I thought why not the best. I do find the
                          > potentiometer could be upgraded as the case obviously becomes quite
                          > warm and effects the cheap commercial potentiometer fitted, (plastic
                          > shaft etc. although it has lasted several years.
                          >
                          > Re- the choke issue, I assumed it was present just for radio
                          > interference (please correct me if I'm wrong), I just removed and
                          > bridged it. As most communication these days are digital I couldn't
                          > see a problem especially as the unit is only used probably once a
                          > month for 3 hours, at the most.
                          >
                          > Hope this has been useful and any feedback / knowledge will be
                          > gratefully received.
                          >
                          > I'm sure non of us are to proud to learn from others J
                          >
                          > Here to help (if I can).
                          >
                          > Bob.
                          >
                        • Robert Hubble
                          Hey Pint, Do you have a schematic? (I ll admit, I had to look up alternistor .) Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller ________________________________ To:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 11, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hey Pint,

                            Do you have a schematic? (I'll admit, I had to look up "alternistor".)

                            Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller

                            ________________________________
                            To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                            From: pintoshine@...
                            Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:12:39 +0000
                            Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control


                            Just a few notes from experience.

                            The most reliable setup is cascade alternistors. I have built dozens

                            of these capable of 9KW and yet to have a single failure.

                            This reliability comes from the predetermined limit resister that

                            drives the first alternistor in the cascade. Is also allows a simple 3

                            component trigger because of the sensitivity of the first alternistor.

                            The ability to drive a inductive loads without a snubber circuit is an

                            inherent attribute of the alternistor and is a bonus but not needed

                            with resistive heating elements. Larger coiled heating element can

                            have enough inductance to cause a thyristor or triac to not switch off

                            properly.



                            ----snip----
                            _________________________________________________________________
                            Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games Trivia Contest
                            http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergames?ocid=TXT_TAGHM
                          • Sherman
                            this is the one I use for my kits.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 12, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              this is the one I use for my kits.
                              http://www.artisan-distiller.org/photoalbum/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=pint_o_shine%2Flhcontroller%2Flightdimmer_240VAC.JPG&var2=0


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Hey Pint,
                              >
                              > Do you have a schematic? (I'll admit, I had to look up "alternistor".)
                              >
                              > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: pintoshine@...
                              > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:12:39 +0000
                              > Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
                              >
                              >
                              > Just a few notes from experience.
                              >
                              > The most reliable setup is cascade alternistors. I have built dozens
                              >
                              > of these capable of 9KW and yet to have a single failure.
                              >
                              > This reliability comes from the predetermined limit resister that
                              >
                              > drives the first alternistor in the cascade. Is also allows a simple 3
                              >
                              > component trigger because of the sensitivity of the first alternistor.
                              >
                              > The ability to drive a inductive loads without a snubber circuit is an
                              >
                              > inherent attribute of the alternistor and is a bonus but not needed
                              >
                              > with resistive heating elements. Larger coiled heating element can
                              >
                              > have enough inductance to cause a thyristor or triac to not switch off
                              >
                              > properly.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----snip----
                              > _________________________________________________________________
                              > Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games
                              Trivia Contest
                              > http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergames?ocid=TXT_TAGHM
                              >
                            • Robert Hubble
                              Thanks Pint, Cute, and it looks like you could drive an even larger output alternistor (if they made it in that device family) with that circuit. Is that
                              Message 14 of 18 , Aug 12, 2008
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                                Thanks Pint,

                                Cute, and it looks like you could drive an even larger
                                output alternistor (if they made it in that device family)
                                with that circuit. Is that left-hand device in the same
                                family as the other 2?

                                And did you say you are producing these in kits?

                                Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller


                                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                From: pintoshine@...
                                Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:04:30 +0000
                                Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control

                                this is the one I use for my kits.
                                http://www.artisan- distiller. org/photoalbum/ main.php? cmd=imageview& var1=pint_ o_shine%2Flhcont roller%2Flightdi mmer_240VAC. JPG&var2= 0

                                --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@ ...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Hey Pint,
                                >
                                > Do you have a schematic? (I'll admit, I had to look up "alternistor" .)
                                >
                                > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                                >
                                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
                                > From: pintoshine@. ..
                                > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:12:39 +0000
                                > Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
                                >
                                >
                                > Just a few notes from experience.
                                >
                                > The most reliable setup is cascade alternistors. I have built dozens
                                >
                                > of these capable of 9KW and yet to have a single failure.
                                >
                                > This reliability comes from the predetermined limit resister that
                                >
                                > drives the first alternistor in the cascade. Is also allows a simple 3
                                >
                                > component trigger because of the sensitivity of the first alternistor.
                                >
                                > The ability to drive a inductive loads without a snubber circuit is an
                                >
                                > inherent attribute of the alternistor and is a bonus but not needed
                                >
                                > with resistive heating elements. Larger coiled heating element can
                                >
                                > have enough inductance to cause a thyristor or triac to not switch off
                                >
                                > properly.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----snip----
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                                > Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games
                                Trivia Contest
                                > http://www.gowindow slive.com/ summergames? ocid=TXT_ TAGHM
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                              • Bill Williams
                                Hello I have reviewed the different options and some of the individuals have had great success with the dimmer  CKT. Some have cascaded tri s and dia s. I
                                Message 15 of 18 , Aug 12, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hello
                                  I have reviewed the different options and some of the individuals have had great success with the dimmer  CKT. Some have cascaded tri's and dia's. I believed I will go with a Zero cross electronic relay and drive it with a simple Dc powered 555 adjustable OSC. Of coarse this is my take, but as i stated I believed this is the simplest and most versatile option, although maybe not the best option.
                                  Thank for all the great work Guy's and input relating to this subject.
                                  Best Regards
                                  Bill

                                  --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Sherman <pintoshine@...> wrote:
                                  From: Sherman <pintoshine@...>
                                  Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
                                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 7:04 AM

                                  this is the one I use for my kits.
                                  http://www.artisan- distiller. org/photoalbum/ main.php? cmd=imageview& var1=pint_ o_shine%2Flhcont roller%2Flightdi mmer_240VAC. JPG&var2= 0

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, Robert Hubble <zymurgybob@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hey Pint,
                                  >
                                  > Do you have a schematic? (I'll admit, I had to look up "alternistor" .)
                                  >
                                  > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller
                                  >
                                  > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                  > To: Distillers@yahoogro ups.com
                                  > From: pintoshine@. ..
                                  > Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:12:39 +0000
                                  > Subject: [Distillers] Re:Heat Control
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Just a few notes from experience.
                                  >
                                  > The most reliable setup is cascade alternistors. I have built dozens
                                  >
                                  > of these capable of 9KW and yet to have a single failure.
                                  >
                                  > This reliability comes from the predetermined limit resister that
                                  >
                                  > drives the first alternistor in the cascade. Is also allows a simple 3
                                  >
                                  > component trigger because of the sensitivity of the first alternistor.
                                  >
                                  > The ability to drive a inductive loads without a snubber circuit is an
                                  >
                                  > inherent attribute of the alternistor and is a bonus but not needed
                                  >
                                  > with resistive heating elements. Larger coiled heating element can
                                  >
                                  > have enough inductance to cause a thyristor or triac to not switch off
                                  >
                                  > properly.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----snip----
                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                  > Got Game? Win Prizes in the Windows Live Hotmail Mobile Summer Games
                                  Trivia Contest
                                  > http://www.gowindow slive.com/ summergames? ocid=TXT_ TAGHM
                                  >


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