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Re: Universal sugar mash mark III

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  • rye_junkie1
    ... Very interesting Riku, 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all. Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out the tomato. Harsh or
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 3, 2008
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Gudday,
      > >
      > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
      > > another version. This one is really simple:
      > >
      > > 5 kg sugar
      > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
      > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
      > >
      > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
      > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
      > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
      > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
      > > needed or not.
      > >
      > > Cheers, Riku
      > >
      >
      > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
      > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
      > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
      > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
      > pitching some more baker's yeast.
      >
      > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
      > needed for a mash.
      >
      > Cheers, Riku
      >

      Very interesting Riku,
      1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
      Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
      the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if the
      tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.

      Mason
    • abbababbaccc
      ... The smell was fruity as usual with baker s yeast. There was quite a lot of carbon dioxide in the wash which may have contributed to high SG. I just had a
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 3, 2008
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
        >
        > > >
        > >
        > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
        > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
        > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
        > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
        > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
        > >
        > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
        > > needed for a mash.
        > >
        > > Cheers, Riku
        > >
        >
        > Very interesting Riku,
        > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
        > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
        > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if the
        > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
        >
        > Mason
        >


        The smell was fruity as usual with baker's yeast. There was quite a
        lot of carbon dioxide in the wash which may have contributed to high
        SG. I just had a look at it and it seems that the fermentation got a
        boost from the added tomato.

        Cheers, Riku
      • mavnkaf
        ... was 1060, ... mash. ... basically a ... try ... indeed ... the ... Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos. Remember Harry s recipe
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 3, 2008
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@>
          wrote:
          > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it
          was 1060,
          > > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the
          mash.
          > > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now
          basically a
          > > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll
          try
          > > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
          > > >
          > > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is
          indeed
          > > > needed for a mash.
          > > >
          > > > Cheers, Riku
          > > >
          > >
          > > Very interesting Riku,
          > > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
          > > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
          > > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if
          the
          > > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
          > >
          > > Mason
          > >
          >
          >
          > The smell was fruity as usual with baker's yeast. There was quite a
          > lot of carbon dioxide in the wash which may have contributed to high
          > SG. I just had a look at it and it seems that the fermentation got a
          > boost from the added tomato.
          >
          > Cheers, Riku
          >

          Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos.
          Remember Harry's recipe #666, Notes #3 and #4;

          Snip........................

          "#3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that
          stimulate yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to
          manufacture enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and
          conversion process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell
          membrane in their existing form. They need available protein to
          combine with as a carrier. When available magnesium is limited, yeast
          shows markedly reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor,
          sluggish or stuck fermentations.

          #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and minerals
          (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It also
          contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
          mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake."

          Snip.........................

          I hope this relevent?

          Cheers
          Marc

          Ps. Riku, my AFC stripper still is nearly ready to test:)
        • Harry
          ... yeast ... minerals ... also ... Yep, you nailed it Marc. One won t work without t other. I think synergy is the word we re looking for. Riku, I would
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 3, 2008
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos.
            > Remember Harry's recipe #666, Notes #3 and #4;
            >
            > Snip........................
            >
            > "#3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that
            > stimulate yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to
            > manufacture enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and
            > conversion process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell
            > membrane in their existing form. They need available protein to
            > combine with as a carrier. When available magnesium is limited,
            yeast
            > shows markedly reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor,
            > sluggish or stuck fermentations.
            >
            > #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and
            minerals
            > (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It
            also
            > contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
            > mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake."
            >
            > Snip.........................
            >
            > I hope this relevent?
            >
            > Cheers
            > Marc
            >
            > Ps. Riku, my AFC stripper still is nearly ready to test:)
            >


            Yep, you nailed it Marc. One won't work without t'other. I
            think 'synergy' is the word we're looking for.

            Riku, I would repitch the yeast as you've already stressed the
            original yeast and its action will be unpredictable. Because its
            stressed it will also be making nasty things, so if you intend to
            save the wash from the drain, make sure you only distil it to recover
            neutral alcohol, not for the flavour.

            You guys are doing the right thing. In all experimentation, only
            change ONE variable at a time & then record the results. Then adjust
            the fermentation with what you consider to be the remedy and record
            that also. It's all trial and error, but it's the only way to figure
            out things successfully. Good work.

            Slainte!
            regards Harry
          • abbababbaccc
            ... It s bubling happily again, tomatoes did the trick. Do let us know how your AFC works. Nykter got into high 80s ABV with his version, but I think that even
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 3, 2008
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos.
              > Remember Harry's recipe #666, Notes #3 and #4;
              >
              > Snip........................
              >
              > "#3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that
              > stimulate yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to
              > manufacture enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and
              > conversion process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell
              > membrane in their existing form. They need available protein to
              > combine with as a carrier. When available magnesium is limited, yeast
              > shows markedly reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor,
              > sluggish or stuck fermentations.
              >
              > #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and minerals
              > (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It also
              > contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
              > mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake."
              >
              > Snip.........................
              >
              > I hope this relevent?
              >
              > Cheers
              > Marc
              >
              > Ps. Riku, my AFC stripper still is nearly ready to test:)
              >

              It's bubling happily again, tomatoes did the trick. Do let us know how
              your AFC works. Nykter got into high 80s ABV with his version, but I
              think that even higher ABVs can be reached with longer column and by
              tweaking the sensor pipe length.

              Cheers, Riku
            • waljaco
              For a sugar wash you need some suspended matter to distribute the yeast through the wash - maybe the mashed tomatoes provide that. I think turbo yeast is
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 4, 2008
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                For a sugar wash you need some suspended matter to distribute the
                yeast through the wash - maybe the mashed tomatoes provide that. I
                think turbo yeast is designed to act in suspension mode and does not
                flocculate easily.
                wal
                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Gudday,
                > >
                > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
                > > another version. This one is really simple:
                > >
                > > 5 kg sugar
                > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                > >
                > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
                > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
                > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                > > needed or not.
                > >
                > > Cheers, Riku
                > >
                >
                > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
                > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
                > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
                > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
                > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                >
                > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
                > needed for a mash.
                >
                > Cheers, Riku
                >
              • keith cottrell
                I tried the universal  sugar mash and I turned out the my worst tasting  spirits ever! I have been having problems with my mash and nutrients lately so I
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 5, 2008
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                  I tried the universal  sugar mash and I turned out the my worst tasting  spirits ever! I have been having problems with my mash and nutrients lately so I tried the miracle-gro It did work as putting out fast ferment time and the amount of alcohol. But it taste bad ran it through my reflux still  and all my good stuff come out tasting like heads but my temp didnt change from 170 till the heads starting coming out and they tasted worse. I havent had a batch taste this bad in the 2 years of me distilling. Is there any other suggestions for cheap nutrients? I cant afford the fermaid K anymore. oh I cleaned my still after the first run and cooked the stuff off again and it tasted the same so its not the still.

                  --- On Fri, 7/4/08, waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
                  From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
                  Subject: [Distillers] Re: Universal sugar mash mark III
                  To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 7:17 AM

                  For a sugar wash you need some suspended matter to distribute the
                  yeast through the wash - maybe the mashed tomatoes provide that. I
                  think turbo yeast is designed to act in suspension mode and does not
                  flocculate easily.
                  wal
                  --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@ ...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@ >
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Gudday,
                  > >
                  > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
                  > > another version. This one is really simple:
                  > >
                  > > 5 kg sugar
                  > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                  > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                  > >
                  > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
                  > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                  > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
                  > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                  > > needed or not.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers, Riku
                  > >
                  >
                  > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
                  > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
                  > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
                  > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
                  > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                  >
                  > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
                  > needed for a mash.
                  >
                  > Cheers, Riku
                  >


                • abbababbaccc
                  ... yet ... untill ... mash but ... 1060, ... mash. ... a ... try ... indeed ... the ... Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 9, 2008
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                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Gudday,
                    > > >
                    > > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started
                    yet
                    > > > another version. This one is really simple:
                    > > >
                    > > > 5 kg sugar
                    > > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                    > > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                    > > >
                    > > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer
                    untill
                    > > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                    > > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the
                    mash but
                    > > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                    > > > needed or not.
                    > > >
                    > > > Cheers, Riku
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was
                    1060,
                    > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the
                    mash.
                    > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically
                    a
                    > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll
                    try
                    > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                    > >
                    > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is
                    indeed
                    > > needed for a mash.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers, Riku
                    > >
                    >
                    > Very interesting Riku,
                    > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
                    > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
                    > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if
                    the
                    > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
                    >
                    > Mason
                    >

                    Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                    1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                    it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                    know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                    whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                    that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.

                    Cheers, Riku
                  • waljaco
                    The addition of tomato puree originally came from a Russian sugar based samogon recipe. Their options are more limited. Killed yeast (autolyzed) is a better
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                      The addition of tomato puree originally came from a Russian sugar
                      based samogon recipe. Their options are more limited. Killed yeast
                      (autolyzed) is a better source of solids and amino acids.
                      wal
                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Gudday,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started
                      > yet
                      > > > > another version. This one is really simple:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > 5 kg sugar
                      > > > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                      > > > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer
                      > untill
                      > > > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                      > > > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the
                      > mash but
                      > > > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                      > > > > needed or not.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Cheers, Riku
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was
                      > 1060,
                      > > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the
                      > mash.
                      > > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically
                      > a
                      > > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll
                      > try
                      > > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                      > > >
                      > > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is
                      > indeed
                      > > > needed for a mash.
                      > > >
                      > > > Cheers, Riku
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > Very interesting Riku,
                      > > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
                      > > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
                      > > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if
                      > the
                      > > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
                      > >
                      > > Mason
                      > >
                      >
                      > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                      > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                      > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                      > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                      > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                      > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                      >
                      > Cheers, Riku
                      >
                    • jamesonbeam1
                      Riku, Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still missing the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast hulls. While Dr.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                        Riku,

                        Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still missing
                        the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast hulls.
                        While Dr. M.B. Raines stated yeast will ferment sucessfully in a glucose
                        / nitrogen solution, he did not state it would ferment fast.

                        You should review some of the nutirents again in commercial yeast
                        nutrients / energizers such as Fermaid K.

                        Hint: Vitamin B-complex, amino acids, lipids amoung other things..

                        Vino es Veritas,

                        Jim.


                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                        wrote:


                        Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                        1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                        it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                        know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                        whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                        that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.

                        Cheers, Riku
                      • abbababbaccc
                        Yes, I know backset would be good as well as vitamins and stuff. However, the point of this experiment was to find the least amount of commonly available
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                          Yes, I know backset would be good as well as vitamins and stuff.
                          However, the point of this experiment was to find the least amount of
                          commonly available components needed. Other thing of course is that
                          you don't have backset available when you start your first mash.

                          As far as fermaid and nutrients go, I find it easier to just buy a
                          pack of turbo yeast. I may spend a bit more but I get it all in one
                          package and I don't have to experiment. Sugar mash for me is the
                          source of pure ethanol. As most of us are using reflux stills the
                          purity is not that important as we can concentrate and remove all
                          those congeners and higher+lower boiling point alcohols.

                          Cheers, Riku


                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Riku,
                          >
                          > Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still
                          missing
                          > the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast
                          hulls.
                          > While Dr. M.B. Raines stated yeast will ferment sucessfully in a
                          glucose
                          > / nitrogen solution, he did not state it would ferment fast.
                          >
                          > You should review some of the nutirents again in commercial yeast
                          > nutrients / energizers such as Fermaid K.
                          >
                          > Hint: Vitamin B-complex, amino acids, lipids amoung other things..
                          >
                          > Vino es Veritas,
                          >
                          > Jim.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                          > wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now
                          at
                          > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                          > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                          > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                          > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                          > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                          >
                          > Cheers, Riku
                          >
                        • Andrew
                          ... I use fermaid-k and ec1118 so I don t have top put up with the product made from turbos. The lower cost is just a bonus. I have just purchased some
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 10, 2008
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                            > riku wrote:
                            > <SNIP>
                            > As far as fermaid and nutrients go, I
                            > find it easier to just buy a pack of
                            > turbo yeast. I may spend a bit more
                            > but I get it all in one package and
                            > I don't have to experiment. Sugar
                            > mash for me is the source of pure
                            > ethanol. As most of us are using
                            > reflux stills the purity is not that
                            > important as we can concentrate and
                            > remove all those congeners and
                            > higher+lower boiling point alcohols.

                            I use fermaid-k and ec1118 so I don't
                            have top put up with the product made
                            from turbos. The lower cost is just
                            a bonus.

                            I have just purchased some uvaferm43
                            and some goferm-protect to see if that
                            can help things out even more.

                            Have not had time yet to do those
                            experiments though.
                          • waljaco
                            Urea in small amounts is readily available as a soluble plant fertilizer. If hard pressed use urine. If you cannot backslop , do as Harry suggested, autolyze
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                              Urea in small amounts is readily available as a soluble plant
                              fertilizer. If hard pressed use urine.
                              If you cannot 'backslop', do as Harry suggested, autolyze baker's
                              yeast by quicky boiling a slurry to breakdown the yeast cells and
                              release the nutrients. You only need about 1tsp inactivated yeast/4l
                              as a nutrient.
                              wal
                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes, I know backset would be good as well as vitamins and stuff.
                              > However, the point of this experiment was to find the least amount of
                              > commonly available components needed. Other thing of course is that
                              > you don't have backset available when you start your first mash.
                              >
                              > As far as fermaid and nutrients go, I find it easier to just buy a
                              > pack of turbo yeast. I may spend a bit more but I get it all in one
                              > package and I don't have to experiment. Sugar mash for me is the
                              > source of pure ethanol. As most of us are using reflux stills the
                              > purity is not that important as we can concentrate and remove all
                              > those congeners and higher+lower boiling point alcohols.
                              >
                              > Cheers, Riku
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Riku,
                              > >
                              > > Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still
                              > missing
                              > > the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast
                              > hulls.
                              > > While Dr. M.B. Raines stated yeast will ferment sucessfully in a
                              > glucose
                              > > / nitrogen solution, he did not state it would ferment fast.
                              > >
                              > > You should review some of the nutirents again in commercial yeast
                              > > nutrients / energizers such as Fermaid K.
                              > >
                              > > Hint: Vitamin B-complex, amino acids, lipids amoung other things..
                              > >
                              > > Vino es Veritas,
                              > >
                              > > Jim.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now
                              > at
                              > > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                              > > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                              > > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                              > > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                              > > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers, Riku
                              > >
                              >
                            • rye_junkie1
                              ... Hello Riku, What do you think the problem is with the slow Ferment. It is Winter in your neck of the woods isnt it? Could it be due to cold temperature?
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 11, 2008
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                                > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                                > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                                > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                                > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                                > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                                > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                                >
                                > Cheers, Riku
                                >

                                Hello Riku,
                                What do you think the problem is with the slow Ferment. It is Winter
                                in your neck of the woods isnt it? Could it be due to cold
                                temperature? Or possibly due to the very slow start without the
                                tomato puree? I used Tomato paste and that is really the only
                                variable between our washes. It bothers me a little that I had such
                                a good success with both of my wash experiments (4-5 days) and
                                according to my records you are at day 12 on the ferment and still not
                                ready for the Still. I am really tempted to start 2 washes this
                                weekend and do some more experimenting. 1 with Tomato Paste and Maybe
                                go get a can of Tomatoes from the grocery store and puree them in a
                                blender for the 2nd wash. Set them up side by side and see what
                                happens.

                                Mason
                              • abbababbaccc
                                I just checked and it s 1015 and still some foam at the top - still fermenting. The temperature has been at about 20C in house maybe a bit less sometimes which
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 12, 2008
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                                  I just checked and it's 1015 and still some foam at the top - still
                                  fermenting. The temperature has been at about 20C in house maybe a
                                  bit less sometimes which may have slowed things down. Another thing
                                  is the brand of fertilizer I used, it's not as rich in nitrogen as
                                  the miracle growth stuff. I haven't stirred it either so there's
                                  quite a lot of carbon dioxide in the mash which also slows things
                                  down. I don't know really, 24h turbos typically take about three days
                                  in my place so it may be temperature related.

                                  Cheers, Riku

                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is
                                  now at
                                  > > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through
                                  but
                                  > > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I
                                  don't
                                  > > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                                  > > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth
                                  knowing
                                  > > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                                  > >
                                  > > Cheers, Riku
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Hello Riku,
                                  > What do you think the problem is with the slow Ferment. It is
                                  Winter
                                  > in your neck of the woods isnt it? Could it be due to cold
                                  > temperature? Or possibly due to the very slow start without the
                                  > tomato puree? I used Tomato paste and that is really the only
                                  > variable between our washes. It bothers me a little that I had
                                  such
                                  > a good success with both of my wash experiments (4-5 days) and
                                  > according to my records you are at day 12 on the ferment and still
                                  not
                                  > ready for the Still. I am really tempted to start 2 washes this
                                  > weekend and do some more experimenting. 1 with Tomato Paste and
                                  Maybe
                                  > go get a can of Tomatoes from the grocery store and puree them in a
                                  > blender for the 2nd wash. Set them up side by side and see what
                                  > happens.
                                  >
                                  > Mason
                                  >
                                • rye_junkie1
                                  ... 20C/68F is a bit low, Especially for bread yeast. I remember the temp on my washes being in the 79F-82F (26C-28C) range. I would have to say that in my
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jul 12, 2008
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                                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I just checked and it's 1015 and still some foam at the top - still
                                    > fermenting. The temperature has been at about 20C in house maybe a
                                    > bit less sometimes which may have slowed things down. Another thing
                                    > is the brand of fertilizer I used, it's not as rich in nitrogen as
                                    > the miracle growth stuff. I haven't stirred it either so there's
                                    > quite a lot of carbon dioxide in the mash which also slows things
                                    > down. I don't know really, 24h turbos typically take about three days
                                    > in my place so it may be temperature related.
                                    >
                                    > Cheers, Riku

                                    20C/68F is a bit low, Especially for bread yeast. I remember the temp
                                    on my washes being in the 79F-82F (26C-28C) range. I would have to say
                                    that in my short time and many washes that I dont have a lot of luck
                                    with temps below about 74F. I use either an electric Heating Pad from
                                    the drug store or if I am fermenting out in my shop I put the
                                    fermenter in a water bath with a aquarium heater. That one works the
                                    best.

                                    Mason
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