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Universal sugar mash mark III

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  • abbababbaccc
    Gudday, As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet another version. This one is really simple: 5 kg sugar 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 30, 2008
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      Gudday,

      As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
      another version. This one is really simple:

      5 kg sugar
      3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
      2 packs of fresh bakers yeast

      Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
      the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
      fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
      this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
      needed or not.

      Cheers, Riku
    • abbababbaccc
      ... I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060, not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash. It foamed
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 3 6:33 AM
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Gudday,
        >
        > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
        > another version. This one is really simple:
        >
        > 5 kg sugar
        > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
        > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
        >
        > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
        > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
        > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
        > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
        > needed or not.
        >
        > Cheers, Riku
        >

        I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
        not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
        It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
        MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
        pitching some more baker's yeast.

        I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
        needed for a mash.

        Cheers, Riku
      • rye_junkie1
        ... Very interesting Riku, 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all. Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out the tomato. Harsh or
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 3 6:56 AM
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Gudday,
          > >
          > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
          > > another version. This one is really simple:
          > >
          > > 5 kg sugar
          > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
          > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
          > >
          > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
          > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
          > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
          > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
          > > needed or not.
          > >
          > > Cheers, Riku
          > >
          >
          > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
          > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
          > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
          > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
          > pitching some more baker's yeast.
          >
          > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
          > needed for a mash.
          >
          > Cheers, Riku
          >

          Very interesting Riku,
          1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
          Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
          the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if the
          tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.

          Mason
        • abbababbaccc
          ... The smell was fruity as usual with baker s yeast. There was quite a lot of carbon dioxide in the wash which may have contributed to high SG. I just had a
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 3 9:59 AM
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...> wrote:
            >
            > > >
            > >
            > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
            > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
            > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
            > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
            > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
            > >
            > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
            > > needed for a mash.
            > >
            > > Cheers, Riku
            > >
            >
            > Very interesting Riku,
            > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
            > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
            > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if the
            > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
            >
            > Mason
            >


            The smell was fruity as usual with baker's yeast. There was quite a
            lot of carbon dioxide in the wash which may have contributed to high
            SG. I just had a look at it and it seems that the fermentation got a
            boost from the added tomato.

            Cheers, Riku
          • mavnkaf
            ... was 1060, ... mash. ... basically a ... try ... indeed ... the ... Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos. Remember Harry s recipe
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 3 5:01 PM
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              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it
              was 1060,
              > > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the
              mash.
              > > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now
              basically a
              > > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll
              try
              > > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
              > > >
              > > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is
              indeed
              > > > needed for a mash.
              > > >
              > > > Cheers, Riku
              > > >
              > >
              > > Very interesting Riku,
              > > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
              > > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
              > > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if
              the
              > > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
              > >
              > > Mason
              > >
              >
              >
              > The smell was fruity as usual with baker's yeast. There was quite a
              > lot of carbon dioxide in the wash which may have contributed to high
              > SG. I just had a look at it and it seems that the fermentation got a
              > boost from the added tomato.
              >
              > Cheers, Riku
              >

              Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos.
              Remember Harry's recipe #666, Notes #3 and #4;

              Snip........................

              "#3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that
              stimulate yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to
              manufacture enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and
              conversion process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell
              membrane in their existing form. They need available protein to
              combine with as a carrier. When available magnesium is limited, yeast
              shows markedly reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor,
              sluggish or stuck fermentations.

              #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and minerals
              (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It also
              contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
              mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake."

              Snip.........................

              I hope this relevent?

              Cheers
              Marc

              Ps. Riku, my AFC stripper still is nearly ready to test:)
            • Harry
              ... yeast ... minerals ... also ... Yep, you nailed it Marc. One won t work without t other. I think synergy is the word we re looking for. Riku, I would
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 3 5:42 PM
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                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos.
                > Remember Harry's recipe #666, Notes #3 and #4;
                >
                > Snip........................
                >
                > "#3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that
                > stimulate yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to
                > manufacture enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and
                > conversion process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell
                > membrane in their existing form. They need available protein to
                > combine with as a carrier. When available magnesium is limited,
                yeast
                > shows markedly reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor,
                > sluggish or stuck fermentations.
                >
                > #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and
                minerals
                > (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It
                also
                > contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
                > mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake."
                >
                > Snip.........................
                >
                > I hope this relevent?
                >
                > Cheers
                > Marc
                >
                > Ps. Riku, my AFC stripper still is nearly ready to test:)
                >


                Yep, you nailed it Marc. One won't work without t'other. I
                think 'synergy' is the word we're looking for.

                Riku, I would repitch the yeast as you've already stressed the
                original yeast and its action will be unpredictable. Because its
                stressed it will also be making nasty things, so if you intend to
                save the wash from the drain, make sure you only distil it to recover
                neutral alcohol, not for the flavour.

                You guys are doing the right thing. In all experimentation, only
                change ONE variable at a time & then record the results. Then adjust
                the fermentation with what you consider to be the remedy and record
                that also. It's all trial and error, but it's the only way to figure
                out things successfully. Good work.

                Slainte!
                regards Harry
              • abbababbaccc
                ... It s bubling happily again, tomatoes did the trick. Do let us know how your AFC works. Nykter got into high 80s ABV with his version, but I think that even
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 3 11:17 PM
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                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Riku and Mason, Interesting observation about the tomatos.
                  > Remember Harry's recipe #666, Notes #3 and #4;
                  >
                  > Snip........................
                  >
                  > "#3. Magnesium ions are essential signalling regulators that
                  > stimulate yeast growth and more importantly, they trigger yeast to
                  > manufacture enzymes which in turn starts the sugar breakdown and
                  > conversion process. Magnesium ions cannot cross the yeast cell
                  > membrane in their existing form. They need available protein to
                  > combine with as a carrier. When available magnesium is limited, yeast
                  > shows markedly reduced growth rates. This may be a cause of poor,
                  > sluggish or stuck fermentations.
                  >
                  > #4. Tomato paste is another source of essential vitamins and minerals
                  > (particularly vit.C, a catalyst in mineral uptake by yeast). It also
                  > contains moderate quantities of protein (10g-15g per cup) which as
                  > mentioned before is essential to magnesium uptake."
                  >
                  > Snip.........................
                  >
                  > I hope this relevent?
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > Marc
                  >
                  > Ps. Riku, my AFC stripper still is nearly ready to test:)
                  >

                  It's bubling happily again, tomatoes did the trick. Do let us know how
                  your AFC works. Nykter got into high 80s ABV with his version, but I
                  think that even higher ABVs can be reached with longer column and by
                  tweaking the sensor pipe length.

                  Cheers, Riku
                • waljaco
                  For a sugar wash you need some suspended matter to distribute the yeast through the wash - maybe the mashed tomatoes provide that. I think turbo yeast is
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 4 5:17 AM
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                    For a sugar wash you need some suspended matter to distribute the
                    yeast through the wash - maybe the mashed tomatoes provide that. I
                    think turbo yeast is designed to act in suspension mode and does not
                    flocculate easily.
                    wal
                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Gudday,
                    > >
                    > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
                    > > another version. This one is really simple:
                    > >
                    > > 5 kg sugar
                    > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                    > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                    > >
                    > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
                    > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                    > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
                    > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                    > > needed or not.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers, Riku
                    > >
                    >
                    > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
                    > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
                    > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
                    > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
                    > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                    >
                    > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
                    > needed for a mash.
                    >
                    > Cheers, Riku
                    >
                  • keith cottrell
                    I tried the universal  sugar mash and I turned out the my worst tasting  spirits ever! I have been having problems with my mash and nutrients lately so I
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 5 10:28 AM
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                      I tried the universal  sugar mash and I turned out the my worst tasting  spirits ever! I have been having problems with my mash and nutrients lately so I tried the miracle-gro It did work as putting out fast ferment time and the amount of alcohol. But it taste bad ran it through my reflux still  and all my good stuff come out tasting like heads but my temp didnt change from 170 till the heads starting coming out and they tasted worse. I havent had a batch taste this bad in the 2 years of me distilling. Is there any other suggestions for cheap nutrients? I cant afford the fermaid K anymore. oh I cleaned my still after the first run and cooked the stuff off again and it tasted the same so its not the still.

                      --- On Fri, 7/4/08, waljaco <waljaco@...> wrote:
                      From: waljaco <waljaco@...>
                      Subject: [Distillers] Re: Universal sugar mash mark III
                      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Friday, July 4, 2008, 7:17 AM

                      For a sugar wash you need some suspended matter to distribute the
                      yeast through the wash - maybe the mashed tomatoes provide that. I
                      think turbo yeast is designed to act in suspension mode and does not
                      flocculate easily.
                      wal
                      --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@ ...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@ >
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Gudday,
                      > >
                      > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started yet
                      > > another version. This one is really simple:
                      > >
                      > > 5 kg sugar
                      > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                      > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                      > >
                      > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer untill
                      > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                      > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the mash but
                      > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                      > > needed or not.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers, Riku
                      > >
                      >
                      > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was 1060,
                      > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the mash.
                      > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically a
                      > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll try
                      > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                      >
                      > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is indeed
                      > needed for a mash.
                      >
                      > Cheers, Riku
                      >


                    • abbababbaccc
                      ... yet ... untill ... mash but ... 1060, ... mash. ... a ... try ... indeed ... the ... Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 9 10:28 PM
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                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Gudday,
                        > > >
                        > > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started
                        yet
                        > > > another version. This one is really simple:
                        > > >
                        > > > 5 kg sugar
                        > > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                        > > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                        > > >
                        > > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer
                        untill
                        > > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                        > > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the
                        mash but
                        > > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                        > > > needed or not.
                        > > >
                        > > > Cheers, Riku
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was
                        1060,
                        > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the
                        mash.
                        > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically
                        a
                        > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll
                        try
                        > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                        > >
                        > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is
                        indeed
                        > > needed for a mash.
                        > >
                        > > Cheers, Riku
                        > >
                        >
                        > Very interesting Riku,
                        > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
                        > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
                        > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if
                        the
                        > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
                        >
                        > Mason
                        >

                        Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                        1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                        it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                        know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                        whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                        that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.

                        Cheers, Riku
                      • waljaco
                        The addition of tomato puree originally came from a Russian sugar based samogon recipe. Their options are more limited. Killed yeast (autolyzed) is a better
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 10 6:12 AM
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                          The addition of tomato puree originally came from a Russian sugar
                          based samogon recipe. Their options are more limited. Killed yeast
                          (autolyzed) is a better source of solids and amino acids.
                          wal
                          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Gudday,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > As the quest for ultimate simple sugar mash goes on I started
                          > yet
                          > > > > another version. This one is really simple:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > 5 kg sugar
                          > > > > 3 tbsp fertilizer (garden variety)
                          > > > > 2 packs of fresh bakers yeast
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Starting SG at 1070 and 25 liters in total. I added fertilizer
                          > untill
                          > > > > the pH vent below 6, it's now in between 5.5 and 6. If the
                          > > > > fermentation does not go well I'll add some tomatoes to the
                          > mash but
                          > > > > this experiment shall give us an idea whether extra proteins are
                          > > > > needed or not.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Cheers, Riku
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > I had almost forgotten this experiment. Took SG today and it was
                          > 1060,
                          > > > not good. Took a can of tomatoes, pureed them and mixed to the
                          > mash.
                          > > > It foamed considerably while stirring. This mash is now basically
                          > a
                          > > > MUM so let's see if it starts to work as it should. If not I'll
                          > try
                          > > > pitching some more baker's yeast.
                          > > >
                          > > > I think it's safe to say now that some source of proteins is
                          > indeed
                          > > > needed for a mash.
                          > > >
                          > > > Cheers, Riku
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > Very interesting Riku,
                          > > 1.070 to 1.060 in 4 days is not good at all.
                          > > Please keep us posted. What did the wash smell like with out
                          > > the tomato. Harsh or fruity? I was also interested in seeing if
                          > the
                          > > tomato's may have also contributed to smell and taste.
                          > >
                          > > Mason
                          > >
                          >
                          > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                          > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                          > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                          > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                          > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                          > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                          >
                          > Cheers, Riku
                          >
                        • jamesonbeam1
                          Riku, Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still missing the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast hulls. While Dr.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 10 8:21 AM
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                            Riku,

                            Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still missing
                            the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast hulls.
                            While Dr. M.B. Raines stated yeast will ferment sucessfully in a glucose
                            / nitrogen solution, he did not state it would ferment fast.

                            You should review some of the nutirents again in commercial yeast
                            nutrients / energizers such as Fermaid K.

                            Hint: Vitamin B-complex, amino acids, lipids amoung other things..

                            Vino es Veritas,

                            Jim.


                            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                            wrote:


                            Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                            1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                            it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                            know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                            whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                            that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.

                            Cheers, Riku
                          • abbababbaccc
                            Yes, I know backset would be good as well as vitamins and stuff. However, the point of this experiment was to find the least amount of commonly available
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 10 8:35 AM
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                              Yes, I know backset would be good as well as vitamins and stuff.
                              However, the point of this experiment was to find the least amount of
                              commonly available components needed. Other thing of course is that
                              you don't have backset available when you start your first mash.

                              As far as fermaid and nutrients go, I find it easier to just buy a
                              pack of turbo yeast. I may spend a bit more but I get it all in one
                              package and I don't have to experiment. Sugar mash for me is the
                              source of pure ethanol. As most of us are using reflux stills the
                              purity is not that important as we can concentrate and remove all
                              those congeners and higher+lower boiling point alcohols.

                              Cheers, Riku


                              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Riku,
                              >
                              > Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still
                              missing
                              > the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast
                              hulls.
                              > While Dr. M.B. Raines stated yeast will ferment sucessfully in a
                              glucose
                              > / nitrogen solution, he did not state it would ferment fast.
                              >
                              > You should review some of the nutirents again in commercial yeast
                              > nutrients / energizers such as Fermaid K.
                              >
                              > Hint: Vitamin B-complex, amino acids, lipids amoung other things..
                              >
                              > Vino es Veritas,
                              >
                              > Jim.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now
                              at
                              > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                              > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                              > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                              > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                              > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                              >
                              > Cheers, Riku
                              >
                            • Andrew
                              ... I use fermaid-k and ec1118 so I don t have top put up with the product made from turbos. The lower cost is just a bonus. I have just purchased some
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 10 2:29 PM
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                                > riku wrote:
                                > <SNIP>
                                > As far as fermaid and nutrients go, I
                                > find it easier to just buy a pack of
                                > turbo yeast. I may spend a bit more
                                > but I get it all in one package and
                                > I don't have to experiment. Sugar
                                > mash for me is the source of pure
                                > ethanol. As most of us are using
                                > reflux stills the purity is not that
                                > important as we can concentrate and
                                > remove all those congeners and
                                > higher+lower boiling point alcohols.

                                I use fermaid-k and ec1118 so I don't
                                have top put up with the product made
                                from turbos. The lower cost is just
                                a bonus.

                                I have just purchased some uvaferm43
                                and some goferm-protect to see if that
                                can help things out even more.

                                Have not had time yet to do those
                                experiments though.
                              • waljaco
                                Urea in small amounts is readily available as a soluble plant fertilizer. If hard pressed use urine. If you cannot backslop , do as Harry suggested, autolyze
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 11 2:34 AM
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                                  Urea in small amounts is readily available as a soluble plant
                                  fertilizer. If hard pressed use urine.
                                  If you cannot 'backslop', do as Harry suggested, autolyze baker's
                                  yeast by quicky boiling a slurry to breakdown the yeast cells and
                                  release the nutrients. You only need about 1tsp inactivated yeast/4l
                                  as a nutrient.
                                  wal
                                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yes, I know backset would be good as well as vitamins and stuff.
                                  > However, the point of this experiment was to find the least amount of
                                  > commonly available components needed. Other thing of course is that
                                  > you don't have backset available when you start your first mash.
                                  >
                                  > As far as fermaid and nutrients go, I find it easier to just buy a
                                  > pack of turbo yeast. I may spend a bit more but I get it all in one
                                  > package and I don't have to experiment. Sugar mash for me is the
                                  > source of pure ethanol. As most of us are using reflux stills the
                                  > purity is not that important as we can concentrate and remove all
                                  > those congeners and higher+lower boiling point alcohols.
                                  >
                                  > Cheers, Riku
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesonbeam1" <jamesonbeam1@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Riku,
                                  > >
                                  > > Again, while providing it with the required minerals, your still
                                  > missing
                                  > > the needed nutrients from some form of yeast extract or yeast
                                  > hulls.
                                  > > While Dr. M.B. Raines stated yeast will ferment sucessfully in a
                                  > glucose
                                  > > / nitrogen solution, he did not state it would ferment fast.
                                  > >
                                  > > You should review some of the nutirents again in commercial yeast
                                  > > nutrients / energizers such as Fermaid K.
                                  > >
                                  > > Hint: Vitamin B-complex, amino acids, lipids amoung other things..
                                  > >
                                  > > Vino es Veritas,
                                  > >
                                  > > Jim.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now
                                  > at
                                  > > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                                  > > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                                  > > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                                  > > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                                  > > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                                  > >
                                  > > Cheers, Riku
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • rye_junkie1
                                  ... Hello Riku, What do you think the problem is with the slow Ferment. It is Winter in your neck of the woods isnt it? Could it be due to cold temperature?
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jul 11 7:07 AM
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                                    > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is now at
                                    > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through but
                                    > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I don't
                                    > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                                    > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth knowing
                                    > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                                    >
                                    > Cheers, Riku
                                    >

                                    Hello Riku,
                                    What do you think the problem is with the slow Ferment. It is Winter
                                    in your neck of the woods isnt it? Could it be due to cold
                                    temperature? Or possibly due to the very slow start without the
                                    tomato puree? I used Tomato paste and that is really the only
                                    variable between our washes. It bothers me a little that I had such
                                    a good success with both of my wash experiments (4-5 days) and
                                    according to my records you are at day 12 on the ferment and still not
                                    ready for the Still. I am really tempted to start 2 washes this
                                    weekend and do some more experimenting. 1 with Tomato Paste and Maybe
                                    go get a can of Tomatoes from the grocery store and puree them in a
                                    blender for the 2nd wash. Set them up side by side and see what
                                    happens.

                                    Mason
                                  • abbababbaccc
                                    I just checked and it s 1015 and still some foam at the top - still fermenting. The temperature has been at about 20C in house maybe a bit less sometimes which
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jul 12 12:46 AM
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                                      I just checked and it's 1015 and still some foam at the top - still
                                      fermenting. The temperature has been at about 20C in house maybe a
                                      bit less sometimes which may have slowed things down. Another thing
                                      is the brand of fertilizer I used, it's not as rich in nitrogen as
                                      the miracle growth stuff. I haven't stirred it either so there's
                                      quite a lot of carbon dioxide in the mash which also slows things
                                      down. I don't know really, 24h turbos typically take about three days
                                      in my place so it may be temperature related.

                                      Cheers, Riku

                                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "rye_junkie1" <rye_junkie@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > Update, I repitched another pack yeast at 1040 and the mash is
                                      now at
                                      > > 1020 and bubling slowly. I think it will eventually come through
                                      but
                                      > > it is quite slow, at least in comparison to 24h turbos :). I
                                      don't
                                      > > know whether tomato paste contains some additional nutrients or
                                      > > whether it was the brand of fertilizer I used. Still worth
                                      knowing
                                      > > that it can be done this easily if one has time to let it ferment.
                                      > >
                                      > > Cheers, Riku
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > Hello Riku,
                                      > What do you think the problem is with the slow Ferment. It is
                                      Winter
                                      > in your neck of the woods isnt it? Could it be due to cold
                                      > temperature? Or possibly due to the very slow start without the
                                      > tomato puree? I used Tomato paste and that is really the only
                                      > variable between our washes. It bothers me a little that I had
                                      such
                                      > a good success with both of my wash experiments (4-5 days) and
                                      > according to my records you are at day 12 on the ferment and still
                                      not
                                      > ready for the Still. I am really tempted to start 2 washes this
                                      > weekend and do some more experimenting. 1 with Tomato Paste and
                                      Maybe
                                      > go get a can of Tomatoes from the grocery store and puree them in a
                                      > blender for the 2nd wash. Set them up side by side and see what
                                      > happens.
                                      >
                                      > Mason
                                      >
                                    • rye_junkie1
                                      ... 20C/68F is a bit low, Especially for bread yeast. I remember the temp on my washes being in the 79F-82F (26C-28C) range. I would have to say that in my
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jul 12 4:37 PM
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                                        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                                        wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I just checked and it's 1015 and still some foam at the top - still
                                        > fermenting. The temperature has been at about 20C in house maybe a
                                        > bit less sometimes which may have slowed things down. Another thing
                                        > is the brand of fertilizer I used, it's not as rich in nitrogen as
                                        > the miracle growth stuff. I haven't stirred it either so there's
                                        > quite a lot of carbon dioxide in the mash which also slows things
                                        > down. I don't know really, 24h turbos typically take about three days
                                        > in my place so it may be temperature related.
                                        >
                                        > Cheers, Riku

                                        20C/68F is a bit low, Especially for bread yeast. I remember the temp
                                        on my washes being in the 79F-82F (26C-28C) range. I would have to say
                                        that in my short time and many washes that I dont have a lot of luck
                                        with temps below about 74F. I use either an electric Heating Pad from
                                        the drug store or if I am fermenting out in my shop I put the
                                        fermenter in a water bath with a aquarium heater. That one works the
                                        best.

                                        Mason
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