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Re: AFC (Automatic Feed Control) for continuous strippers

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  • Arsene Lupin
    ... Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are aquainted with the
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I was asked about AFC so I thought I'll post my answer in here as
      > > well:
      > > >
      > > > AFC is/was studied in swedish and norwegian forums so I don't
      > think
      > > > there's any thorough explanations in english. The principle is
      > > quite
      > > > simple. We have a reservoir for mash where the liquid level is
      > kept
      > > > constant (circulating pump works for that). For that reservoir
      > mash
      > > > goes to a pipe that goes into column close to the bottom. It then
      > > rises
      > > > up to the top of the packing. The reservoir is located so that
      > the
      > > > liquid level is the same is pipe length - ie. normally nothing
      > > flows
      > > > out of the pipe. Now when the temperature at the lower parts of
      > the
      > > > column rises above the boiling point of the mash the mash starts
      > to
      > > > boil and spurts mash to the top of the packing. When enough mash
      > is
      > > fed
      > > > the temperature at the lower parts of the column drops and
      > boiling
      > > > ceases. This stops the feed and temperature starts to rise again
      > > untill
      > > > boiling starts again. Strippate is collected from the top of the
      > > column.
      > > >
      > > > Cheers, Riku
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi Riku,
      > >
      > > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
      > spirits
      > > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who they
      > > are, Thank you!!! ;0
      > >
      > > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion a
      > > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
      > > comming).
      > >
      > > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The wash
      > > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
      > and
      > > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
      > >
      > > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
      > column
      > > packing, right?
      > >
      > > Cheers
      > > Marc
      > >
      >
      >
      > I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column that
      > has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
      > modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?
      >
      > Cherrs
      > Marc
      >
      Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest
      you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are
      aquainted with the basics. Moreover there is a sizing issue.
      Build you stripper, see the ABV you can get with 100C in the boiler
      with your desired wash flow. THEN you may implement ARC & AFC.

      I would like to add that continuous strippers are interesting because
      they allow for energy reuse which seems like a point of design often
      overlooked. If you dont reuse energy, the benefit is very limited,
      you'll trade boiler size for column height, aquarium pump and a lot of
      headache.

      About packing, the AFC may be more or less intrusive but will allow
      packing (just push the scrubbers from the other side of the tube).
    • abbababbaccc
      ... they ... a ... wash ... that ... You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >
        > > Hi Riku,
        > >
        > > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
        > spirits
        > > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who
        they
        > > are, Thank you!!! ;0
        > >
        > > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion
        a
        > > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
        > > comming).
        > >
        > > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The
        wash
        > > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
        > and
        > > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
        > >
        > > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
        > column
        > > packing, right?
        > >
        > > Cheers
        > > Marc
        > >
        >
        >
        > I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column
        that
        > has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
        > modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?
        >
        > Cherrs
        > Marc
        >


        You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC
        pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be able to open the
        column from top and from bottom to achieve proper packing. You could
        use copper mesh as well but SS potsrcubbers will not corrode.

        Cheers, Riku
      • Trid
        Just a bit of information regarding various control valves. It can be useful for following technical converstations/topics as well as background information
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 2, 2008
          Just a bit of information regarding various control valves. It can be useful
          for following technical converstations/topics as well as background information
          for more advanced tinkering.

          http://www.kele.com/olcat/CV12/Valve_Selection_Terminology.pdf

          Trid
          -ever tinkering
        • mavnkaf
          Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know. I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the tube, when it is inside the 50
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 11, 2008
            Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know.

            I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the
            tube, when it is inside the 50 mm x 800 mm column, just keep in mind
            the still will be only used as a continuous wash stripper for low
            wines aiming for about 65%, I hope.

            Cheers
            Marc




            "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>

            You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC
            pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be able to open the
            column from top and from bottom to achieve proper packing. You could
            use copper mesh as well but SS potsrcubbers will not corrode.

            Cheers, Riku

            …………………………………………………………………

            "Arsene Lupin" <ragnagna75012@...>

            Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest
            you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are
            aquainted with the basics. Moreover there is a sizing issue.
            Build you stripper, see the ABV you can get with 100C in the boiler
            with your desired wash flow. THEN you may implement ARC & AFC.

            I would like to add that continuous strippers are interesting because
            they allow for energy reuse which seems like a point of design often
            overlooked. If you dont reuse energy, the benefit is very limited,
            you'll trade boiler size for column height, aquarium pump and a lot of
            headache.

            About packing, the AFC may be more or less intrusive but will allow
            packing (just push the scrubbers from the other side of the tube).
          • abbababbaccc
            8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)- Cheers, Riku
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 12, 2008
              8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)-

              Cheers, Riku

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know.
              >
              > I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the
              > tube, when it is inside the 50 mm x 800 mm column, just keep in mind
              > the still will be only used as a continuous wash stripper for low
              > wines aiming for about 65%, I hope.
              >
              > Cheers
              > Marc
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • mavnkaf
              Thanks Riku, I thought it may have been 8 mm because I ve read you used 8 mm for the ARC set up. Now for the next step of the feed tank, which I think I have
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 17, 2008
                Thanks Riku, I thought it may have been 8 mm because I've read you
                used 8 mm for the ARC set up.

                Now for the next step of the feed tank, which I think I have got
                worked out. I'm going to preheat the wash to 40 c with a fish tank
                heater and use a small float valve (for gravity feed), that I found at
                a pet store, its low pressure and deals with low volumes of water or in
                my case, wash.

                Cheers
                Marc

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > 8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)-
                >
                > Cheers, Riku
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