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Re: AFC (Automatic Feed Control) for continuous strippers

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  • mavnkaf
    ... quite ... rises ... flows ... fed ... untill ... column. ... Hi Riku, First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ spirits tonight, thanks
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 2 2:53 AM
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      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > I was asked about AFC so I thought I'll post my answer in here as
      well:
      >
      > AFC is/was studied in swedish and norwegian forums so I don't think
      > there's any thorough explanations in english. The principle is
      quite
      > simple. We have a reservoir for mash where the liquid level is kept
      > constant (circulating pump works for that). For that reservoir mash
      > goes to a pipe that goes into column close to the bottom. It then
      rises
      > up to the top of the packing. The reservoir is located so that the
      > liquid level is the same is pipe length - ie. normally nothing
      flows
      > out of the pipe. Now when the temperature at the lower parts of the
      > column rises above the boiling point of the mash the mash starts to
      > boil and spurts mash to the top of the packing. When enough mash is
      fed
      > the temperature at the lower parts of the column drops and boiling
      > ceases. This stops the feed and temperature starts to rise again
      untill
      > boiling starts again. Strippate is collected from the top of the
      column.
      >
      > Cheers, Riku
      >


      Hi Riku,

      First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ spirits
      tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who they
      are, Thank you!!! ;0

      Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion a
      little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
      comming).

      My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The wash
      feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go and
      it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.

      There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have column
      packing, right?

      Cheers
      Marc
    • mavnkaf
      ... think ... kept ... mash ... the ... the ... to ... is ... boiling ... spirits ... and ... column ... I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 2 3:06 AM
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        --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I was asked about AFC so I thought I'll post my answer in here as
        > well:
        > >
        > > AFC is/was studied in swedish and norwegian forums so I don't
        think
        > > there's any thorough explanations in english. The principle is
        > quite
        > > simple. We have a reservoir for mash where the liquid level is
        kept
        > > constant (circulating pump works for that). For that reservoir
        mash
        > > goes to a pipe that goes into column close to the bottom. It then
        > rises
        > > up to the top of the packing. The reservoir is located so that
        the
        > > liquid level is the same is pipe length - ie. normally nothing
        > flows
        > > out of the pipe. Now when the temperature at the lower parts of
        the
        > > column rises above the boiling point of the mash the mash starts
        to
        > > boil and spurts mash to the top of the packing. When enough mash
        is
        > fed
        > > the temperature at the lower parts of the column drops and
        boiling
        > > ceases. This stops the feed and temperature starts to rise again
        > untill
        > > boiling starts again. Strippate is collected from the top of the
        > column.
        > >
        > > Cheers, Riku
        > >
        >
        >
        > Hi Riku,
        >
        > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
        spirits
        > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who they
        > are, Thank you!!! ;0
        >
        > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion a
        > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
        > comming).
        >
        > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The wash
        > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
        and
        > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
        >
        > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
        column
        > packing, right?
        >
        > Cheers
        > Marc
        >


        I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column that
        has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
        modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?

        Cherrs
        Marc
      • Arsene Lupin
        ... Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are aquainted with the
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 2 3:51 AM
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          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@> wrote:
          > >
          > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@>
          > > wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I was asked about AFC so I thought I'll post my answer in here as
          > > well:
          > > >
          > > > AFC is/was studied in swedish and norwegian forums so I don't
          > think
          > > > there's any thorough explanations in english. The principle is
          > > quite
          > > > simple. We have a reservoir for mash where the liquid level is
          > kept
          > > > constant (circulating pump works for that). For that reservoir
          > mash
          > > > goes to a pipe that goes into column close to the bottom. It then
          > > rises
          > > > up to the top of the packing. The reservoir is located so that
          > the
          > > > liquid level is the same is pipe length - ie. normally nothing
          > > flows
          > > > out of the pipe. Now when the temperature at the lower parts of
          > the
          > > > column rises above the boiling point of the mash the mash starts
          > to
          > > > boil and spurts mash to the top of the packing. When enough mash
          > is
          > > fed
          > > > the temperature at the lower parts of the column drops and
          > boiling
          > > > ceases. This stops the feed and temperature starts to rise again
          > > untill
          > > > boiling starts again. Strippate is collected from the top of the
          > > column.
          > > >
          > > > Cheers, Riku
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi Riku,
          > >
          > > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
          > spirits
          > > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who they
          > > are, Thank you!!! ;0
          > >
          > > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion a
          > > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
          > > comming).
          > >
          > > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The wash
          > > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
          > and
          > > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
          > >
          > > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
          > column
          > > packing, right?
          > >
          > > Cheers
          > > Marc
          > >
          >
          >
          > I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column that
          > has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
          > modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?
          >
          > Cherrs
          > Marc
          >
          Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest
          you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are
          aquainted with the basics. Moreover there is a sizing issue.
          Build you stripper, see the ABV you can get with 100C in the boiler
          with your desired wash flow. THEN you may implement ARC & AFC.

          I would like to add that continuous strippers are interesting because
          they allow for energy reuse which seems like a point of design often
          overlooked. If you dont reuse energy, the benefit is very limited,
          you'll trade boiler size for column height, aquarium pump and a lot of
          headache.

          About packing, the AFC may be more or less intrusive but will allow
          packing (just push the scrubbers from the other side of the tube).
        • abbababbaccc
          ... they ... a ... wash ... that ... You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 2 4:36 AM
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            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@> wrote:
            > >> >
            > >
            > > Hi Riku,
            > >
            > > First up, I have been testing some very nice aged wheat germ
            > spirits
            > > tonight, thanks to those who shared the recipe, they know who
            they
            > > are, Thank you!!! ;0
            > >
            > > Anyway Riku I have finnished (Harry's LM/VM Dual Head) suggestion
            a
            > > little while ago and going test it on the 4/6/08. (got pictures
            > > comming).
            > >
            > > My next still to make wil be a continuous stripper still. The
            wash
            > > feed is always a concern but I think the AFC is a good way to go
            > and
            > > it might help me to unstand the ARC concepts.
            > >
            > > There is one thing I must clear up. For the AFC one must have
            > column
            > > packing, right?
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > > Marc
            > >
            >
            >
            > I should say I knew it had packing but how do you pack a column
            that
            > has a tube up the guts of it? ( middle). So the colunm must be
            > modular right? Have the abiltity to be pulled apart? Right?
            >
            > Cherrs
            > Marc
            >


            You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC
            pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be able to open the
            column from top and from bottom to achieve proper packing. You could
            use copper mesh as well but SS potsrcubbers will not corrode.

            Cheers, Riku
          • Trid
            Just a bit of information regarding various control valves. It can be useful for following technical converstations/topics as well as background information
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 2 11:25 AM
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              Just a bit of information regarding various control valves. It can be useful
              for following technical converstations/topics as well as background information
              for more advanced tinkering.

              http://www.kele.com/olcat/CV12/Valve_Selection_Terminology.pdf

              Trid
              -ever tinkering
            • mavnkaf
              Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know. I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the tube, when it is inside the 50
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 11 9:45 PM
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                Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know.

                I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the
                tube, when it is inside the 50 mm x 800 mm column, just keep in mind
                the still will be only used as a continuous wash stripper for low
                wines aiming for about 65%, I hope.

                Cheers
                Marc




                "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>

                You make a doughnut out of a potscrubber and put that around the AFC
                pipe and push it down. In case of AFC you need to be able to open the
                column from top and from bottom to achieve proper packing. You could
                use copper mesh as well but SS potsrcubbers will not corrode.

                Cheers, Riku

                …………………………………………………………………

                "Arsene Lupin" <ragnagna75012@...>

                Continuous columns are difficult to design and understand, I suggest
                you implement ARC & AFC in the continuous column once you are
                aquainted with the basics. Moreover there is a sizing issue.
                Build you stripper, see the ABV you can get with 100C in the boiler
                with your desired wash flow. THEN you may implement ARC & AFC.

                I would like to add that continuous strippers are interesting because
                they allow for energy reuse which seems like a point of design often
                overlooked. If you dont reuse energy, the benefit is very limited,
                you'll trade boiler size for column height, aquarium pump and a lot of
                headache.

                About packing, the AFC may be more or less intrusive but will allow
                packing (just push the scrubbers from the other side of the tube).
              • abbababbaccc
                8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)- Cheers, Riku
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 12 7:48 AM
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                  8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)-

                  Cheers, Riku

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "mavnkaf" <mavnkaf@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks Riku and Arsene for the replys, abit a late I know.
                  >
                  > I got a quick question about the AFC tube size and the length of the
                  > tube, when it is inside the 50 mm x 800 mm column, just keep in mind
                  > the still will be only used as a continuous wash stripper for low
                  > wines aiming for about 65%, I hope.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > Marc
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • mavnkaf
                  Thanks Riku, I thought it may have been 8 mm because I ve read you used 8 mm for the ARC set up. Now for the next step of the feed tank, which I think I have
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 17 12:54 AM
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                    Thanks Riku, I thought it may have been 8 mm because I've read you
                    used 8 mm for the ARC set up.

                    Now for the next step of the feed tank, which I think I have got
                    worked out. I'm going to preheat the wash to 40 c with a fish tank
                    heater and use a small float valve (for gravity feed), that I found at
                    a pet store, its low pressure and deals with low volumes of water or in
                    my case, wash.

                    Cheers
                    Marc

                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > 8mm pipe, 80cm long has been tested in one meter column (IIRC)-
                    >
                    > Cheers, Riku
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